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5 hours ago, Paulchili said:

In my opinion this is an extra expense more akin to excursions and not really part of a cruise fare. I believe that I should receive that amount refunded to my CC rather than FCC - especially as they had no objection to the amount of my claim.

 

Am I right or am I off on this? This is not a matter I can dispute with the CC as SB accepted responsibility for that amount but wants to repay in FCC. I think that they are wrong. What say you?

 

Paulchili, here's my thinking.  Unless the air was booked through FlightEase, I think any offer of compensation by SB is a goodwill gesture.  It goes beyond their contractual obligations to provide refunds for items such as cruise fares or port taxes.  Like you, I would prefer to have it in cash, but I'd be happy to have it as FCC, assuming the terms were reasonable.  We're at day 134 waiting for air consideration from the cruise line where we're both co-lenders.  At this point, I highly doubt we'll see anything.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, MightyQuinn said:

 

Paulchili, here's my thinking.  Unless the air was booked through FlightEase, I think any offer of compensation by SB is a goodwill gesture.  It goes beyond their contractual obligations to provide refunds for items such as cruise fares or port taxes.  Like you, I would prefer to have it in cash, but I'd be happy to have it as FCC, assuming the terms were reasonable.  We're at day 134 waiting for air consideration from the cruise line where we're both co-lenders.  At this point, I highly doubt we'll see anything.

Well, the point is that they have "accepted" the responsibility for our extra expenses associated with flight changes we had to make (like avoiding HKG) before we cancelled the flight. They had a special form to claim such expenses and they approved our expenses. I just don't see why we would be compensated in FCC when we paid extra for these in cash (much like for excursions which were not refunded in FCC but in refund to CC).

Edited by Paulchili
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59 minutes ago, Rambo_Trout said:

 

Hi Paul,

 

I think that we both claimed on the same day.

 

We made a claim for unrecoverable hotel bookings as they were non-refundable.

 

SB offered us Cash or Value + 28 % FCC (which they called 25%) plus $ 250 each on board credit, which we took, as it was by far the best value.

 

They could/should have done better for you.

 

Regards,

 

Kevin

Thanks Kevin,

I think I will pursue this as it is a fair amount of money and I believe the facts are in my favor. 

I can see why they would prefer to pay back in FCC but it should be treated as extra expense (not cruise fare) and thus refundable to CC. They have accepted responsibility for that expense - if that had been denied it would have been the end of it.

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12 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Thanks Kevin,

I think I will pursue this as it is a fair amount of money and I believe the facts are in my favor. 

I can see why they would prefer to pay back in FCC but it should be treated as extra expense (not cruise fare) and thus refundable to CC. They have accepted responsibility for that expense - if that had been denied it would have been the end of it.

 

Wish you the best of luck Paul.  Unfortunately you don't have much on your side as SB controls the purse strings and have the final say as no way to dispute on your credit card as you paid the airline directly I believe.  Hope you get the cash back  but, as they say your word against their's and they control the money.

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45 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Unfortunately you don't have much on your side as SB controls the purse strings and have the final say as no way to dispute on your credit card as you paid the airline directly I believe.

You are right about that - they do control the purse strings.

Before we cancelled the cruise we got a notice that passengers flying in via HKG will not be admitted on the ship (we had Cathay flights) - so we changed those - no choice in that. Then SB changed the itinerary and instead of ending in Bali it ended in Darwin - again if we took the cruise we would have to change our return flights. As it skipped several ports that we were interested in we finally cancelled.

This is the notice we got from SB (highlighting mine):

 

We understand this is not the cruise vacation you anticipated, and some guests may prefer not to travel at this time. Should you choose to defer your travel and cancel your cruise you will receive a 100% Future Cruise Credit (excluding independent travel expenses) for the base cruise fare paid that can be used on a replacement cruise that sails within 12 months. The terms and conditions of this Future Cruise Credit are listed below. You will also receive a full refund of any Seabourn pre- or post-cruise hotel packages or transfers, prepaid shore excursions and amenities purchased through Seabourn, and taxes, fees, and port expenses back to the original form of payment. 

 

We recognize that these changes may cause you to incur other unexpected expenses, such as air change fees. Reimbursement of reasonable non-refundable expenses will be considered on a case-by-case basis. A Change Fee Reimbursement Form is available at http://*****/SBN_CHGFEE; please complete this form and submit it, along with any relevant receipts and documentation, for review by our corporate office. If you purchased SeabournShield® or independent vacation travel insurance, please submit your claim through your carrier before submitting a reimbursement request.

 

This specifies that the cruise fare will be compensated with FCC but no such statement is made about other unexpected expenses, such as air change fees.

Quite the opposite - it states that "you will receive a 100% FCC for the base cruise fare paid (excluding independent travel expenses") 

So unexpected expensee, such as air change fees will be consider on a case-by-case basis but are not part of FCC for base cruise fare.

That is how I am reading it (as a lay person).

Edited by Paulchili
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7 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

We recognize that these changes may cause you to incur other unexpected expenses, such as air change fees. Reimbursement of reasonable non-refundable expenses will be considered on a case-by-case basis. A Change Fee Reimbursement Form is available at http://*****/SBN_CHGFEE; please complete this form and submit it, along with any relevant receipts and documentation, for review by our corporate office

The portion I quoted above is extremely helpful and suggest you include that quote in responding to SB.  Seems like that should end the debate and result in a cash refund but, again they control the purse strings so next would be a small claims court and that presents its' own issues.  Most likely they require to file any lawsuits at their location in Seattle, WA which would require you to have to travel to Seattle any number of times as with their lawyers, could ask for continuances and even there no guarantee.

 

Really wish I had better news for you but, other than with a credit card dispute next step is a small claims case which might cost you more than the award.  Might be best to take the FCC and be done after of course you provide the quotation of what they actually promised???  Hope things work out.

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2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Really wish I had better news for you but, other than with a credit card dispute next step is a small claims case which might cost you more than the award.  Might be best to take the FCC and be done after of course you provide the quotation of what they actually promised???  Hope things work out.

Thanks Dave.

I would not even consider small claims court even if I were an attorney.

The fact that I am done with SB is a given (after and if I get to use my FCC).

While I don't necessarily believe that "a customer is always right" I DO believe that you have to treat a customer fairly and with respect if you expect them to return.

That was not a feeling I got from SB this time around during the entire process (compared to some other lines like Oceania).

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3 hours ago, Paulchili said:

They had a special form to claim such expenses and they approved our expenses. I just don't see why we would be compensated in FCC when we paid extra for these in cash.

 

Paulchili, thanks for posting the SB notice you received re: air consideration.  Having now seen the language, I agree it's more than a goodwill gesture and you have a compelling argument to be repaid in kind and not in FCC.  Your case is strengthened by the fact that SB offered cash to others in a similar situation.  Go for it and good luck!

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4 minutes ago, MightyQuinn said:

 

Paulchili, thanks for posting the SB notice you received re: air consideration.  Having now seen the language, I agree it's more than a goodwill gesture and you have a compelling argument to be repaid in kind and not in FCC.  Your case is strengthened by the fact that SB offered cash to others in a similar situation.  Go for it and good luck!

MQ - thank you.

I will try to elevate it as high as I can.

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10 hours ago, Paulchili said:

 

Thank you both (and others that had to listen to me for all this time).

Now I have another question to which I would like to get an honest, unbiased answer.

I cancelled our 30 day cruise on 2/27 - a little before SB did. At that time there were no other options for me but a 100% FCC for the cost of the cruise.

I would have preferred a refund but I understood the terms & the rules and whether I liked them or not, I accepted them.

Since then I received a refund to my CC for excursion (pretty promptly) and finally the taxes and fees to my CC.

They also offered a compensation for air fare changes. I filled out the required form and submitted it. With a minor deduction they accepted my claim of $2,447 ($240 less than what I claimed). That part was OK with me but they are offering that amount in FCC instead of refund to my CC.

In my opinion this is an extra expense more akin to excursions and not really part of a cruise fare. I believe that I should receive that amount refunded to my CC rather than FCC - especially as they had no objection to the amount of my claim.

Am I right or am I off on this? This is not a matter I can dispute with the CC as SB accepted responsibility for that amount but wants to repay in FCC. I think that they are wrong. What say you?

TIA

Paul:  I unfortunately do not have a magic solution for you, but merely a shot in the dark.  Try a conversation with your credit card company to see what they recommend.  You might get lucky and find an experienced rep who knows how to work with such situations, which might not be so odd in this very strange time of massive cancellations throughout the travel industry.  Good luck!

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2 hours ago, tv24 said:

Paul:  I unfortunately do not have a magic solution for you, but merely a shot in the dark.  Try a conversation with your credit card company to see what they recommend.  You might get lucky and find an experienced rep who knows how to work with such situations, which might not be so odd in this very strange time of massive cancellations throughout the travel industry.  Good luck!

I have tried that but it’s not their problem.

For example, when we had to cancel our Cathay flights via HKG, I had to buy a few extra miles(about $2k worth) to get a Qantas award flight direct to Brisbane.

The credit card denied that claim - rightfully so- because AA/Qantas delivered what I paid for.

It is SB that promised to compensate us for unexpected air expenses associated with the cruise (& changes).

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On 6/25/2020 at 12:38 PM, Paulchili said:

Thank you.

It should be a clear cut case. I cancelled the entire cruise -i.e. I did not take a part of it like some people did on the Encore out of Sydney on 3/8 that had to be terminated in Adelaide 1/2 way through the cruise.

 

Paulchilli we were one of those who had our cruise end at Adelaide taking the future cruise option. I must check to find if there is any paper work from Seabourn confirming this

As a PS have you been paid back from Crystal yet?

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36 minutes ago, Thecat123 said:

 

Paulchilli we were one of those who had our cruise end at Adelaide taking the future cruise option. I must check to find if there is any paper work from Seabourn confirming this

As a PS have you been paid back from Crystal yet?

As I cancelled before SB did, I was not expecting money back for the cruise itself - only FCC (which I got). I also got money back for excursions and taxes (finally) and now I will fight to get money back for air changes which they approved but want to pay back in FCC instead of cash.

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I received my refund today - August 14-28th Alaska cruise/flights, cancelled May 6th. TA paid Delta directly to upgrade flights so hopefully I will get a credit from Delta for that.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

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On 7/3/2020 at 5:01 PM, tv24 said:

Paul:  I unfortunately do not have a magic solution for you, but merely a shot in the dark.  Try a conversation with your credit card company to see what they recommend.  You might get lucky and find an experienced rep who knows how to work with such situations, which might not be so odd in this very strange time of massive cancellations throughout the travel industry.  Good luck!

Hi Guys,

 

I think that we were supposed to be with you on the March cruise out of Barbados.  Our fiasco began with a cancelled cruise out of Hong Kong in February and Seabourn gave us a FCC which 'had to be used' by March.  Anyway, long story short, every cruise that they rescheduled us for was cancelled and we never received our FCC.  No correspondence from Seabourn in many months after many registered letters sent to corporate offices, so we disputed the charge on our credit card and were reimbursed within 8 weeks.  You might try that route.  For some reason, Seabourn does not seem concerned with their diamond members!  

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1 hour ago, Kruzngrl said:

Hi Guys,

 

I think that we were supposed to be with you on the March cruise out of Barbados.  Our fiasco began with a cancelled cruise out of Hong Kong in February and Seabourn gave us a FCC which 'had to be used' by March.  Anyway, long story short, every cruise that they rescheduled us for was cancelled and we never received our FCC.  No correspondence from Seabourn in many months after many registered letters sent to corporate offices, so we disputed the charge on our credit card and were reimbursed within 8 weeks.  You might try that route.  For some reason, Seabourn does not seem concerned with their diamond members!  

Thanks Kruzngrl:  I've decided to be patient until next week and if no action, I will phone again.  If I don't get a satisfactory response, I will correspond with someone whom I've contacted in Guest Relations.  And if that doesn't work, we will do the credit card dispute.  We are now at almost 4 months since my March 15 request for a refund and all we have received is an odd amount that is apparently related to port and tax expenses.  NOT luxury cruising.

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2 hours ago, tv24 said:

We are now at almost 4 months since my March 15 request for a refund and all we have received is an odd amount that is apparently related to port and tax expenses.  NOT luxury cruising.

Send me an email at Paulpepper at comcast dot net

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Made another phone call to Seabourn today.  They are now predicting that it will take 3 more weeks, which would make 140 days after my March 15 request.  Not happy and will probably pursue another route to get satisfaction.  NOT luxury cruising.

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Just now, tv24 said:

Made another phone call to Seabourn today.  They are now predicting that it will take 3 more weeks, which would make 140 days after my March 15 request.  Not happy and will probably pursue another route to get satisfaction.  NOT luxury cruising.

I would definitely file a CC dispute.

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Finally got part of the refund for one of my two upcoming cruises that Seabourn cancelled May 6.  However, when I spoke to Seabourn last week, they said all refunds were being processed as of July 9.

 

I asked them about our FCC associated with being kicked off in Adelaide, and I got two different answers from two different reps. The first one said we had ~$3000 each on our accounts.  The second one said there was a "c" by that amount, saying that meant the FCC was cancelled "because someone made a mistake" in calculating it, but could not offer an explanation of what the correct credit should be.

 

And in addition, I got an email asking if I wanted a cash refund for the extra expenses associated with being ejected a week early in a different city or would we like 150% in FCC.  Guess which one we picked

 

Linda

 

 

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On 7/3/2020 at 1:32 PM, MightyQuinn said:

 

Paulchili, thanks for posting the SB notice you received re: air consideration.  Having now seen the language, I agree it's more than a goodwill gesture and you have a compelling argument to be repaid in kind and not in FCC.  Your case is strengthened by the fact that SB offered cash to others in a similar situation.  Go for it and good luck!

MQ - I did elevate it as high as I needed to and got instantaneous satisfaction.

They agreed with my case after reviewing the facts and the check is on its way.

I am very thankful to the office responsible for doing the right thing and it helps me to regain some trust in SB that I was losing.

There is nothing like doing the right thing and being responsive to the customer.

I was only asking for things that I firmly believed I was entitled to.

Edited by Paulchili
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5 hours ago, Paulchili said:

MQ - I did elevate it as high as I needed to and got instantaneous satisfaction.

They agreed with my case after reviewing the facts and the check is on its way.

 

Great news Paulchili.  I did the same with C and also got the desired result.  I think now we're both whole on our loans to SB and C.  Time to sit on the sidelines and plan for better days ahead.

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35 minutes ago, MightyQuinn said:

Time to sit on the sidelines and plan for better days ahead.

We can dream, can’t we? 😀

Not much else to do at the moment.

Planning trips is part of the fun.

Edited by Paulchili
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To JP & all you lovely supportive people:  Finally some good news for us...and some money!  Yesterday, July 18, we received the full refunds that we expected.  This includes the refund for our March 28 cancelled cruise.  This refund was received 125 days after we requested it on March 15.  We also received refunded deposits for our fall cruises that were cancelled.  These refunds were received 79 days after we requested them on May 7.  So now we have finally settled up.

 

Still not ready to schedule anything for the future, given the pandemic.

 

Thanks to everyone for your support, especially Mauzac and Paulchili.

 

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