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MSC Cruises going bankrupt?


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26 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Are the other lines providing refunds?  Every board I see is filled with posts from people who are distressed that they haven't received anything, and doubt that they will.

 

The short answer is YES! Other cruise lines are providing refunds. Granted, not everyone has received a refund, but according to CC members, each of the cruise lines I have checked are providing  refunds to some customers.

 

Here is one thread from Carnival. Skip to the end and you will see refunds reported for the April 6th sailing. I've been following this thread in particular because I was scheduled on Seaside April 4th.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Cruiser Bruiser said:

Disney is the exception, then. I can assure you that on the NCL and HAL boards, everyone is complaining about virtually no cash refunds and substantial delays in receiving them, if at all. This situation isn't unique to MSC at all.

 

Disney is not the exception. Just trying to keep things factual. Look at post #12 from the HAL board. This CC member even provided a screen shot of the refund received. I will grant you that everyone is complaining and the number of people reporting refunds is a small ratio when compared to the whole, but other lines are providing some refunds. MSC is unique in that there have been zero cases of cash back reported here on the MSC board.

 

 

 

 

Take a look at post #4 here from the Celebrity Board:

 

 

I could provide links to threads from NCL, RCL, Princess, Celebrity, Carnival, and HAL  where CC customers are receiving cash back.  The fact is that MSC has yet to refund anyone cash (here on CC) and other lines have. However; I wouldn't jump to making an inference that the lack of refunding indicates they are going bankrupt. I would say that lack of any refunds (while the competition is managing a small number of refunds) is pretty typical of  poor shore side service from MSC.  Even the biggest fans of MSC acknowledge that shore side service has been historically shabby.

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It has been almost 11 weeks since I cancelled my cruise that I prepaid a year in advance and cancelled within my time to get a full refund.  I was told "2 billing cycles" at the most, which I took to mean 2 mos.    3 weeks ago on Monday MSC told my TA I0 more days (although later my TA said their notes said 12).  That deadline passed over a week ago.  Nothing.

 

There should be no reason I should have to wait until after my cruise sail date.  I assume my cruise has been cancelled, but I don't know because I cancelled WHILE IN THE PERIOD OF TIME I AM ENTITLED TO A FULL REFUND! They have had my money for almost a year and now I want it back.  60 days seemed excessive to me, but understandable due to all that was going on (although I cancelled on March 3rd).  But they keep moving back the goalpost and NO ONE is getting refunds, so I am beginning to think it is BS. 

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6 minutes ago, Nikita4 said:

I ve recived my refund for our April 4th TA on the MsC Preziosa this week.

Switzerland with a Germany booking?  I've still not heard of any refunds for the US since mid March.

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9 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The short answer is YES! Other cruise lines are providing refunds. 

 

 

  Even the biggest fans of MSC acknowledge that shore side service has been historically shabby.

 

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On 5/9/2020 at 12:15 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The short answer is YES! Other cruise lines are providing refunds. Granted, not everyone has received a refund, but according to CC members, each of the cruise lines I have checked are providing  refunds to some customers.

*snip*

 

Disney is not the exception. Just trying to keep things factual. Look at post #12 from the HAL board. This CC member even provided a screen shot of the refund received. I will grant you that everyone is complaining and the number of people reporting refunds is a small ratio when compared to the whole, but other lines are providing some refunds. MSC is unique in that there have been zero cases of cash back reported here on the MSC board.

 

 

Thanks for the back up.  I do not understand the motivation of these people coming here to say that MSC is just doing what ever other line is doing.  Every other line has refunded at least someone, every other line isnt constantly moving the payment date.  Maybe these people work for MSC or are travel agents that work closely with MSC but it's bull.  People that are due money need to know that MSC is not acting like every other line right now, they are being super shady.

 

I dont have huge concerns that they will go out of business, although it would be a lie to say I have zero concerns.  I am more concerned that they will try to make me take a cruise with the credit rather than refund me.  And I am concerned they will run out the clock on when I can contest a charge with my CC company so that I am just stuck with what they will give me.

 

On 5/9/2020 at 12:37 PM, GatorMomInNC said:

It has been almost 11 weeks since I cancelled my cruise that I prepaid a year in advance and cancelled within my time to get a full refund.  I was told "2 billing cycles" at the most, which I took to mean 2 mos.    3 weeks ago on Monday MSC told my TA I0 more days (although later my TA said their notes said 12).  That deadline passed over a week ago.  Nothing.

 

There should be no reason I should have to wait until after my cruise sail date.  I assume my cruise has been cancelled, but I don't know because I cancelled WHILE IN THE PERIOD OF TIME I AM ENTITLED TO A FULL REFUND! They have had my money for almost a year and now I want it back.  60 days seemed excessive to me, but understandable due to all that was going on (although I cancelled on March 3rd).  But they keep moving back the goalpost and NO ONE is getting refunds, so I am beginning to think it is BS. 

Ugh.  Your story give me no faith that refunds are forth coming.  You shouldnt even be in this mess at all as you arent even on a COVID affected cruise, you just cancelled well in advance. 

 

I am not laying any blame on you what so ever but I am curious as to why you would have been PIF before the PIF date.  If youve said in the past, I have forgotten.  But Im curious if there was an incentive to do so.  After this cluster---- I cant imagine any promo being good enough for me to give my money up before it's due but I am curious.

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1 hour ago, aprilF said:

 

Thanks for the back up.  I do not understand the motivation of these people coming here to say that MSC is just doing what ever other line is doing.  Every other line has refunded at least someone, every other line isnt constantly moving the payment date.  Maybe these people work for MSC or are travel agents that work closely with MSC but it's bull.  People that are due money need to know that MSC is not acting like every other line right now, they are being super shady.

 

I dont have huge concerns that they will go out of business, although it would be a lie to say I have zero concerns.  I am more concerned that they will try to make me take a cruise with the credit rather than refund me.  And I am concerned they will run out the clock on when I can contest a charge with my CC company so that I am just stuck with what they will give me.

 

Ugh.  Your story give me no faith that refunds are forth coming.  You shouldnt even be in this mess at all as you arent even on a COVID affected cruise, you just cancelled well in advance. 

 

I am not laying any blame on you what so ever but I am curious as to why you would have been PIF before the PIF date.  If youve said in the past, I have forgotten.  But Im curious if there was an incentive to do so.  After this cluster---- I cant imagine any promo being good enough for me to give my money up before it's due but I am curious.

Hey April -

I'm paid in full for 2 reasons: I generally like to pay in full when I can just so I can relax and know it is done.  For our September DCL cruise I paid in full a couple months ago, even though officially PIF day is later this month (I think?).   The other reason is that I paid for this cruise primarily with points from my Chase Sapphire card.  So I put down the deposit in cash, then called Chase's travel people and had them take over the booking and paid for the balance with points.     From what I understood at the time, they will only use points one time - not subsequent payments - and I had enough points to pay the whole thing so I just went ahead and did it.

 

So the good news is that I have very little cash out there on this reservation.  The bad news is that my TA is my credit card company (basically).  And those points are worth money to me - not only to put towards a another cruise, but I have the option to convert those points to cash, so for me they might as well be money.   I want to book a new cruise next year with those points and I am waiting until the refund hits.  With so many people using their FCCs I suspect that I will pay more next year than this year.  Also, I am not inclined to book with MSC again after this so I will probably book with a more expensive cruise line...

 

I just cancelled all my hotel stays for the week before this cruise in France.  American refunded my husband's flight because they changed it.  Air France at this point will only give us a credit.   I still don't know if I can get a refund from Delta - they say they cancelled my flight on their website, but it still looks like it is on.    No matter what, I will have about $3k in credits on Delta I can use but I can't book a flight until I book a cruise and until I get the points back!!!

 

Surprisingly, I am having a hard time cancelling my Disneyland Paris trip that preceded this cruise.  Mainly because to save money I booked on the Paris website and I have spent hours on hold and still can't get through.  I even had insurance, but doesn't cover a pandemic.  I think that I will end up only with a credit there also. 

 

Sorry to go off topic, but this is how I have spent my mother's day - online and on the phone trying to cancel my trip I planned for so long and was so looking forward too.  It is very sad 😞 

 

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On 5/9/2020 at 12:15 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

The short answer is YES! Other cruise lines are providing refunds. Granted, not everyone has received a refund, but according to CC members, each of the cruise lines I have checked are providing  refunds to some customers.

 

Here is one thread from Carnival. Skip to the end and you will see refunds reported for the April 6th sailing. I've been following this thread in particular because I was scheduled on Seaside April 4th.

 

 

 

 

 

Disney is not the exception. Just trying to keep things factual. Look at post #12 from the HAL board. This CC member even provided a screen shot of the refund received. I will grant you that everyone is complaining and the number of people reporting refunds is a small ratio when compared to the whole, but other lines are providing some refunds. MSC is unique in that there have been zero cases of cash back reported here on the MSC board.

 

 

 

 

Take a look at post #4 here from the Celebrity Board:

 

 

I could provide links to threads from NCL, RCL, Princess, Celebrity, Carnival, and HAL  where CC customers are receiving cash back.  The fact is that MSC has yet to refund anyone cash (here on CC) and other lines have. However; I wouldn't jump to making an inference that the lack of refunding indicates they are going bankrupt. I would say that lack of any refunds (while the competition is managing a small number of refunds) is pretty typical of  poor shore side service from MSC.  Even the biggest fans of MSC acknowledge that shore side service has been historically shabby.

 

 

For every one thread where customers have received their funds back, there are 4 or 5 others with angry customers still waiting for their money to come back.  MSC is right in line with what everyone else is doing, and claiming otherwise is really just trying to stir the pot for no reason other than stirring it.

 

And to say this... The fact is that MSC has yet to refund anyone cash (here on CC) and other lines have.

 

I find multiple issues with this kind of broad brush statement.  First, there's no way to know whether or not there is not a single person on this community who has received their refund.  That's a pretty definitive statement for something you cannot know for a fact.  Secondly, the MSC community here is tiny compared to the communities here of Royal, Carnival, Norwegian, and all their subsidiaries.  You're talking about a much smaller sample size here than those other places.  And lastly, the CC community overall is a small portion of the entire cruise community in general.

 

Yes, MSC really is acting like the others here, but MSC just deals with a smaller subset of this community which tends to be largely influenced by an echo chamber of negativity, stemming from a lot of the same people I see in many threads just like this one.

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17 hours ago, GatorMomInNC said:

Hey April -

I'm paid in full for 2 reasons: I generally like to pay in full when I can just so I can relax and know it is done.  For our September DCL cruise I paid in full a couple months ago, even though officially PIF day is later this month (I think?).   The other reason is that I paid for this cruise primarily with points from my Chase Sapphire card.  So I put down the deposit in cash, then called Chase's travel people and had them take over the booking and paid for the balance with points.     From what I understood at the time, they will only use points one time - not subsequent payments - and I had enough points to pay the whole thing so I just went ahead and did it.

 

Ugh!  I am sorry you have spent your Mother's Day dealing with this!  I knew you had used points but having never used them myself I didnt understand that issue with using them, thanks for explaining.

 

We were to leave Wednesday, Expedia keeps sending me suggestions on what to do while we are in Italy.  Its so depressing.  I'm trying to focus on the good.  It would be easier if MSC would refund so I wouldnt have to keep checking bck and poking at the wound.  MSC is the only refund we have that is outstanding, everyone else refunded in a timely fashion.  I agree this has put me off of MSC, certainly for "bigger", more planned trips.  Still may be willing to do a last minute cruise with them if the price is right but I am not giving them money to hold for as long as they deem appropriate.

 

If you havent tried calling Delta, it was a relatively painless process for me.  They work on the call back system so no long hold times.  I went in knowing I was entitled to a refund but there was no effort made to persuade me otherwise.  If you can summon the will to try them today, you may want to do so and see if you can get a refund rather than credit.

 

37 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 

 

For every one thread where customers have received their funds back, there are 4 or 5 others with angry customers still waiting for their money to come back.  MSC is right in line with what everyone else is doing, and claiming otherwise is really just trying to stir the pot for no reason other than stirring it.

 

And to say this... The fact is that MSC has yet to refund anyone cash (here on CC) and other lines have.

 

I find multiple issues with this kind of broad brush statement.  First, there's no way to know whether or not there is not a single person on this community who has received their refund.  That's a pretty definitive statement for something you cannot know for a fact.  Secondly, the MSC community here is tiny compared to the communities here of Royal, Carnival, Norwegian, and all their subsidiaries.  You're talking about a much smaller sample size here than those other places.  And lastly, the CC community overall is a small portion of the entire cruise community in general.

 

Yes, MSC really is acting like the others here, but MSC just deals with a smaller subset of this community which tends to be largely influenced by an echo chamber of negativity, stemming from a lot of the same people I see in many threads just like this one.

 You do raise a point with the MSC boards having a lower participation.  What I would counter that with is that MSC has already let it be known they wont refund other nationalities so only the American customers are even germane to the conversation.  And the % of American customers on MSC is known to be low.  So we may be proportionately represented here on CC.

 

In any case, no one has stated here (or elsewhere that Ive seen) that MSC has provided the promised refund.  Other lines at least have some people that have been given refunds (some lines have seen most been given refunds withing the time frame stated).  What matters to me is the ticking clock of how long I have to contest the charge with my CC company so I have to use what information is available.  If MSC doesnt like me drawing the conclusion that I am concerned they are going to swindle me out of a refund and force credit only on me, MSC can easily rectify this impression by actually issuing refunds.  Until they start doing this in a manner that is sufficiently large enough to reach the cruise critic audience, I am forced to draw my own conclusions.

Edited by aprilF
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No one is going bankrupt. Even if its so, its not a permanent issue. They have to do it now just to avoid paying taxes for a fiscal year. They may re-register later under a new name and continues the operations. Also, those companies (if its true) going bankrupt, they might have sold their shares and estates to another company. So, I dont think that these companies are going completely bankrupt 

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44 minutes ago, Beardface said:

 MSC is right in line with what everyone else is doing, and claiming otherwise is really just trying to stir the pot for no reason other than stirring it.

 

Yes, MSC really is acting like the others here, but MSC just deals with a smaller subset of this community which tends to be largely influenced by an echo chamber of negativity, stemming from a lot of the same people I see in many threads just like this one.

 

I respectfully disagree.  If you think MSC is in line with everyone else, please provide evidence to support the claim. Right out of the gate, their policies have been less consumer friendly. This is typical of MSC shore side service. Nothing new here. 

 

As stated numerous times, my personal belief is that MSC is the best value in the Caribbean, but it is a budget line and has limitations (as do all lines). Since you feel my contributions have little value other than to stir the pot, I might suggest you block me. 

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To answer the original question, not only do I not think MSC Cruises are going to go bankrupt, but I think that they are best positioned to take advantage of this situation and be able to perform and strategic purchase or merging with another line who may stumble into financial troubles.

 

I would not be shocked to see them come out of this as a legitimate big name cruise line, on par with the others, when this all settles.  I still think there is a good fit with them buying up and absorbing the NCL brand as the operating parent.

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3 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I respectfully disagree.  If you think MSC is in line with everyone else, please provide evidence to support the claim. Right out of the gate, their policies have been less consumer friendly. This is typical of MSC shore side service. Nothing new here. 

 

I love it.  Accuse, accuse, accuse of MSC acting in nefarious ways, and the second that someone says they're just acting like everyone else, (which, you can literally go see for yourself on any of the other forums just how many threads there are about lack of refunds) the immediate reply is "oh yeah, prove they aren't this bad".  You didn't need the proof when you accused, you just went on feelings, not sure why the burden of proof is to prove innocence rather than guilt.

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Great news...I just received notification from my credit card that my refund has posted from MSC.  This was for prepaid items and port charges from the March 15th Meraviglia cancelled sailing. Even better news...It was the right amount.

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8 minutes ago, slei15 said:

Great news...I just received notification from my credit card that my refund has posted from MSC.  This was for prepaid items and port charges from the March 15th Meraviglia cancelled sailing. Even better news...It was the right amount.

Did you take a FCC for the cruise fare?

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6 hours ago, Beardface said:

 

I love it.  Accuse, accuse, accuse of MSC acting in nefarious ways, and the second that someone says they're just acting like everyone else, (which, you can literally go see for yourself on any of the other forums just how many threads there are about lack of refunds) the immediate reply is "oh yeah, prove they aren't this bad".  You didn't need the proof when you accused, you just went on feelings, not sure why the burden of proof is to prove innocence rather than guilt.

 

Yep.

 

Because you can't prove or disprove a negative; contrived by the requester.  That is why people 'throw that out there.  Not one source has, by cruise lines, the actual data of status of refund requests stratified by dates and the cruise line cruise contracts.  Not one.

 

It's what the world is about today.  😲

 

The THREAD is about 'is MSC 'going bankrupt.  Go figure.  Seems like a lot of 'venting on all of the cruise forums.  Must be something underlying (like a global pandemic where 2-weeks of 'bending the curve enters the 3rd month)?  😷

 

 

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I agree you can't prove a negative, but it's not asking to prove a negative to find an example of something.  Also, finding no example does not prove it is not happening.  On Cruise Critic there is now one reported case of someone booked in the US getting their cruise fare refunded.  It happened today for a March 15th cancelled cruise.  So at 58 days later they are just processing the first cancelled cruise refunds.

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2 hours ago, Até said:

I agree you can't prove a negative, but it's not asking to prove a negative to find an example of something.  Also, finding no example does not prove it is not happening.  On Cruise Critic there is now one reported case of someone booked in the US getting their cruise fare refunded.  It happened today for a March 15th cancelled cruise.  So at 58 days later they are just processing the first cancelled cruise refunds.

 

Well, examples are just that with no statistical relevance.

 

How many tens of thousands of passengers had cruises cancelled during the lock-down and how many have also cancelled cruises for thereafter?

 

I.e., what is the total population of cancellations?  How many are CruiseCritic members?  How many are not? How many complaints by the total population?  How many from Cruise Critic responses? 

 

Then do the math.  It can't be done; we don't have the data.

 

One piece of data we do have, for the BIG-3 Cruise Lines, and MSC, had for LIABILITIES TO CUSTOMER DEPOSITS at their most recent regulatory filings (by Country).

 

Deposits.PNG.6443148bdd9ca2bb30d5e9dabecaa244.PNG

 

Pretty interesting (the MSC amount is converted to US dollars).

 

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All the statistical data really doesn't matter because it only takes one report to verify it's finally happening, I think that is what most people were looking for.  It's unfortunate MSC decided to wait 58 days to make a refund for one of the first cancellations, hopefully we will get more refund verification soon.  It still leaves people in my situation, cancellation before final payment, wondering where they fall in MSC's refund priority.

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Off topic a little, but I was speaking to a Carnival rep today for a client and found out the significant issues with the refund process. It applies to most cruise lines the way the systems were designed for convenience in normal operating times. The system is set up to automatically charge cancellation penalties when a cruise is canceled. Due to this, they have to manually enter every reservation, override the penalties, determine if it is FCC or refund, ensure the appropriate amount is set to refund, and have the refund processed by the revenue accounting team, which are not large teams at any of the cruise lines. Carnival at this point is not giving a timeframe for refunds, as they are so overwhelmed and they have no clue when they will get through it all. They are going cruise by cruise, while also trying to go about the necessary everyday business and keep things going for the future. All of this while dealing with significant furloughs and layoffs, which frankly are a part of how they are saving the cash to be able to refund. It is a slow process for every cruise line, but they also know that if they end up screwing thousands of customers by not refunding, they will not have anyone feel safe enough to ever book again. The refunds will happen, but they will take a significant amount of time. It is frustrating for everyone. Please also know, if you booked through a travel agent and dispute the charge on your credit card because you lose patience, the cruise line can ultimately charge the travel agent back for the full amount of the dispute. 

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1 hour ago, slei15 said:

Off topic a little, but I was speaking to a Carnival rep today for a client and found out the significant issues with the refund process. It applies to most cruise lines the way the systems were designed for convenience in normal operating times. The system is set up to automatically charge cancellation penalties when a cruise is canceled. Due to this, they have to manually enter every reservation, override the penalties, determine if it is FCC or refund, ensure the appropriate amount is set to refund, and have the refund processed by the revenue accounting team, which are not large teams at any of the cruise lines. Carnival at this point is not giving a timeframe for refunds, as they are so overwhelmed and they have no clue when they will get through it all. They are going cruise by cruise, while also trying to go about the necessary everyday business and keep things going for the future. All of this while dealing with significant furloughs and layoffs, which frankly are a part of how they are saving the cash to be able to refund. It is a slow process for every cruise line, but they also know that if they end up screwing thousands of customers by not refunding, they will not have anyone feel safe enough to ever book again. The refunds will happen, but they will take a significant amount of time. It is frustrating for everyone. Please also know, if you booked through a travel agent and dispute the charge on your credit card because you lose patience, the cruise line can ultimately charge the travel agent back for the full amount of the dispute. 

 

 

Yep

 

And just to get an idea of the sheer number of requests we are talking about, I ran some of these numbers on another thread.

 

The entire fleet has basically been mothballed for 2 months now.  17 ships that have a total double occupancy (according to Wikipedia, so it could be slightly more or less) 58,156 passengers.  Every week that's the number or people who are supposed to be on their ships.  So if you factor in that we've been on this haitus for about 8 weeks now, (and factoring in that ships would not be sailing in full capacity, and some ships sail 2 week cruises) that's around 250k to 500k refunds that MSC needs to issue globally, and that number increases by 20k=50k per week.

 

And now factor in that these lines have a furloughed staff working remote at home logging into systems that likely were not designed for remote work having to manually enter and verify each cancellation and.... Yeah.  You can see how this would back up quick industry-wide.

 

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Sorry, I call BS on this story about how difficult it is for the cruise lines to process so many refunds.  It took MSC and many other lines months to get the first refunds started.  And in many countries they have delayed refunds to the fullest extent possible.  This first report of a MSC US refund on the CC forums proves it.  The first reporting person got a refund today for one of the very first cancelled cruises.  What has MSC been doing for the last two months?  My simple deposit returns that normally take 5 to 7 days still haven't been addressed by MSC, they weren't processing the cancelled cruises so what have they been doing?  The whole thing reeks of intentional delay for their own cash flow preservation.  I'd have more respect for them if they just told the truth, in my case their deception and over reaction with the new Booking Terms changes made me cancel multiple bookings.

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7 hours ago, Até said:

Sorry, I call BS on this story about how difficult it is for the cruise lines to process so many refunds.  It took MSC and many other lines months to get the first refunds started.  And in many countries they have delayed refunds to the fullest extent possible.  This first report of a MSC US refund on the CC forums proves it.  The first reporting person got a refund today for one of the very first cancelled cruises.  What has MSC been doing for the last two months?  My simple deposit returns that normally take 5 to 7 days still haven't been addressed by MSC, they weren't processing the cancelled cruises so what have they been doing?  The whole thing reeks of intentional delay for their own cash flow preservation.  I'd have more respect for them if they just told the truth, in my case their deception and over reaction with the new Booking Terms changes made me cancel multiple bookings.

 

Again, it's not really unique to MSC and, to the point of the thread, it doesn't mean they are going bankrupt.  If one would look at the BIG 3 and how much they are using for cash flow preservation, it is simply inequitable to claim MSC is the only culprit and doing it to avoid bankruptcy.

 

Carnival has raised also $6B, if they had to pay all customer deposits they would have a tough time making it for another year with no revenues; same for Royal Caribbean.

 

Deposits.PNG.6027fc94dbd79049e5bbc8b041bbd76f.PNG

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