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weberman

Are we seeing the end of cruising?

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:03 PM, D C said:

The choices are to accept the reality and make conscious decisions and risk assessments on an individual basis, deciding which activities are acceptable or not for one's given situation; or to sit back, be negative, and refuse to acknowledge that life will go on despite the presence of a virus.

 

If a port is closed to cruise ships, you can make whatever personal choices you wish...

 

...but you aren't going there on a cruise ship.

 

Personally, my luggage is on extended layup.

 

(cold layup, before an argument ensues)

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3 hours ago, Roberto256 said:

 

If a port is closed to cruise ships, you can make whatever personal choices you wish...

 

...but you aren't going there on a cruise ship.

 

Personally, my luggage is on extended layup.

 

(cold layup, before an argument ensues)

 

Agree......there are going to be so many places that will not want cruise ships anywhere near their ports in the age of COVID-19....there were already always a lot of the people who had coughs on the ships we were on so I can imagine how popular a person with a cough will be on ships now.

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Might not be a bad idea if Princess (and any other cruise line) were to reinstate the Bon Voyage Experience.  They always limited how many people could come on board for it anyway and it just might keep up the interest in cruising.  From what I'm seeing, different ships have been coming into various US ports to refuel and restock.  Maybe they could offer BVE on those days.  The BVE wouldn't run afoul the CDC order as that order only covers passenger vessels anticipating a overnight stay or a 24 hour stay onboard.  Just a thought...

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

The BVE wouldn't run afoul the CDC order as that order only covers passenger vessels anticipating a overnight stay or a 24 hour stay onboard.  Just a thought...

 

Since the BVE is a group tour for a pax's guests, would that violate CDC or state guidelines on distancing and events?

Edited by HappyInVan

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1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Since the BVE is a group tour by a pax's guests, would that violate CDC or state guidelines on distancing and events?

BVE guests didn't need to be guests of any booked PAX.  I did a couple in FLL and didn't know anybody sailing on those cruises.  The tour was optional.  I don't see that it would be any different than visiting the USS Intrepid, USS Yorktown, Queen Mary, Battleships Missouri, Iowa, Wisconsin, Massachusetts etc...  

 

None of the visitors to these docked floating vessels are PAX as the ship isn't taking the visitors anywhere they are merely giving the visitors a nautical experience.

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1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Might not be a bad idea if Princess (and any other cruise line) were to reinstate the Bon Voyage Experience.  They always limited how many people could come on board for it anyway and it just might keep up the interest in cruising.  From what I'm seeing, different ships have been coming into various US ports to refuel and restock.  Maybe they could offer BVE on those days.  The BVE wouldn't run afoul the CDC order as that order only covers passenger vessels anticipating a overnight stay or a 24 hour stay onboard.  Just a thought...

My first thought was "Great, now we're bringing even more people onboard who possibly could infect passengers and crew..." - again, just a thought.

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28 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

My first thought was "Great, now we're bringing even more people onboard who possibly could infect passengers and crew..." - again, just a thought.

I guess I wasn't explicit in suggesting restarting BVE.  I'm talking about doing a form of BVE before the ships are permitted to have any PAX, so there would be no PAX to infect.  As restaurants and bars open up, there wouldn't be any more danger to the servers than there would be in opened up shore based services.

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3 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I guess I wasn't explicit in suggesting restarting BVE.  I'm talking about doing a form of BVE before the ships are permitted to have any PAX, so there would be no PAX to infect.  As restaurants and bars open up, there wouldn't be any more danger to the servers than there would be in opened up shore based services.

I could see delayed boarding for passengers while crew do cleaning after visitors leave. Do not like this idea. Rather see Princess offer incentives to cruise. Ie: OBC

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13 minutes ago, dog said:

I could see delayed boarding for passengers while crew do cleaning after visitors leave. Do not like this idea. Rather see Princess offer incentives to cruise. Ie: OBC

Again, I'm not suggesting that the BVE would happen after the ships are allowed to start sailing again.  As long as the ships are not permitted to sail with passengers, there would be no restriction on allowing day pass visitors onboard the days the ship needs to return to port to provision before returning to anchorage off the coast.  This wouldn't be a permanent thing, just something to keep interest in cruising during the sailing hiatus.  If the other cruise lines offered the same thing, people could check out other ships and lines to see if they like them more.  I've never been on anything other than Princess, NCL and Viking.  I wouldn't mind a day visit to RCL, Disney, MSC or any of the other Carnival brands just to scope them out.  Again this would only be during the hiatus while the ships are not permitted to sail with passengers not after cruising opens up again.

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2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I guess I wasn't explicit in suggesting restarting BVE.  I'm talking about doing a form of BVE before the ships are permitted to have any PAX, so there would be no PAX to infect.  As restaurants and bars open up, there wouldn't be any more danger to the servers than there would be in opened up shore based services.

 

Back on topic.

 

Daniel,

 

I'm suffering from cruise withdrawal. I had 4 cruises (total 47 days) booked over 12 months, when the pandemic was declared.

 

However, I looked at the facts and drew the logical conclusion. Here's a local article, starts with the facts and reached a conclusion...

 

“Canada is slowly reopening — and new research reveals where you're most at risk of COVID-19”

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-canada-spread-risk-covid-1.5572505

 

 

There's the choral group who had two and a half hours of practice. Infected 87% and 2.8% of the infected died.

 

There's the Chinese restaurant where diners sitting far from the patient was infected.

 

Of course, I don't presume to tell you what to do. You're a grown-up.

 

I do suggest that since you're an 'optimist', you and your fellows should set the example. Dine at the restaurants, drink at the pubs. Board the very first cruise. Make sure that you have every chance of being infected.

 

No point trying to cajole the 'timid' like me. Set the example!

 

Thank You.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I do suggest that since you're an 'optimist', you and your fellows should set the example. Dine at the restaurants, drink at the pubs. Board the very first cruise. Make sure that you have every chance of being infected.

 

No point trying to cajole the 'timid' like me. Set the example!

 

Thank You.

In my mind, you've won the prize for the most horrible posting I've seen yet.  To suggest that I should go out and get infected because you didn't like my idea about restarting BVE is the most hostile, combative post I've ever seen.  Shame on you.  Get a grip.

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5 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

In my mind, you've won the prize for the most horrible posting I've seen yet.  To suggest that I should go out and get infected because you didn't like my idea about restarting BVE is the most hostile, combative post I've ever seen.  Shame on you.  Get a grip.

 

What does BVE have to do with the subject of this thread?

 

"Are we seeing the end of cruising?"

 

Are you suggesting that the ships should be converted to restaurants?

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1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

What does BVE have to do with the subject of this thread?

 

"Are we seeing the end of cruising?"

 

Are you suggesting that the ships should be converted to restaurants?

I no longer have any interest in responding to any of your posts.  Stay safe.

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On 5/8/2020 at 6:00 PM, weberman said:

Yet, here is some insight from another LA Times travel writer David Lazarus...Lazarus makes some interesting points! I had a bout of Norovirirus on one of my cruises and it was terrible.NCL will probably not survive, but no  matter as it will have little or no effect on the U.S. economy. My DW and I are both 76, so we are done with cruising.

The short answer: No.  The long answer:  It is your loss, not the cruise lines.  People spread disease, not cruise ships.  When AIDS began to spread, did people stop having coitus?  No.  People are more careful and life goes on.  The same can be said of cruising, both types.  See there a pun.

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6 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Might not be a bad idea if Princess (and any other cruise line) were to reinstate the Bon Voyage Experience.  They always limited how many people could come on board for it anyway and it just might keep up the interest in cruising.  From what I'm seeing, different ships have been coming into various US ports to refuel and restock.  Maybe they could offer BVE on those days.  

 

I don't see how that could work.   The ships are not set up to receive guests.

 

Most customer-facing crew are either off the ship, or will be as soon as they can be repatriated.

Princess has said they want to reduce crew to the minimum necessary to operate the ship,

and additional crew to serve that minimum.

 

Remaining crew is allowed in passenger spaces, and not required to wear uniforms.

They are staying in passenger cabins, so they can't really be hidden away from touring passengers.

 

Lido has very limited hours ... and is serving crew food.

All other food and beverage venues are closed.

 

As there are no passengers boarding, there is no security screening or check-in staff set up.

 

It seems to me, even if were some way to do a BVE, it would really make a poor impression

on touring guests.

 

And, if the current ship's complement is virus free, why would you want to bring onboard

an unknown group to infect them?

 

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13 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

People spread disease, not cruise ships.  When AIDS began to spread, did people stop having coitus?  No.  People are more careful and life goes on.  The same can be said of cruising, both types.  See there a pun.

 

I would like to qualify your remarks. People spread disease, but some venues are more conducive to infection. Don't forget that on the Ruby Princess, a third of the pax were infected in 11 days.

 

To get people back on board in the numbers needed, the cruise companies must demonstrate that they are interested in the welfare of the pax and crew. Are following the safety protocols in earnest. Have the determination to abort the cruise if people are infected. Have the means to determine that people on board are infected.

 

I cite the example in Alberta where the Cargill processing plant (2k employees) had a mass infection. 48% of the employees were infected, and a similar number in the community. Accounting for a third of Alberta's infections at the time...

 

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/three-new-covid-19-deaths-in-alberta-as-union-pushes-to-keep-cargill-closed/ar-BB13ugsZ

 

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Roberto256 said:

It seems to me, even if were some way to do a BVE, it would really make a poor impression

on touring guests.

 

And, if the current ship's complement is virus free, why would you want to bring onboard

an unknown group to infect them?

 

 

 

Exactly correct. It makes no sense as a PR exercise. Guests are bound to ask hard questions about the safety issues. Does Carnival/Princess have the answers?

 

In light of the infection of staff members in the White House, the public want answers. Real answers.

 

How do you keep the ship covid-free if the WH couldn't? Why bring on board visitors that aren't tested? 

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Princess could take one ship  make it up to do BVE while they are not sailing.  They could also rename it as the Hotel California Princess.  Because with the CDC rules the people could check in, but never leave.

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I have a question, why are people that are saying "I/we are never cruising again" spending so much time on this forum, pouring negativity on those that are looking forward to the return of cruising?  Please find another forum to discuss your future vacation ideas/plans. Thank you...

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3 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

I have a question, why are people that are saying "I/we are never cruising again" spending so much time on this forum, pouring negativity on those that are looking forward to the return of cruising?  Please find another forum to discuss your future vacation ideas/plans. Thank you...

Good point

 

When Cruising does start again.... the questions are  

 

what changes are there... will your still enjoy yourself with the changes

 

and will the price sky rocket  ( wither due to reduced passengers or the need for money for them to stay afloat )

 

Cheers Don

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21 minutes ago, LACruiser88 said:

I have a question, why are people that are saying "I/we are never cruising again" spending so much time on this forum, pouring negativity on those that are looking forward to the return of cruising?  Please find another forum to discuss your future vacation ideas/plans. Thank you...

 

The title of the thread asks are we "seeing the end of cruising" not are "we cruising again."  I do not let opposing views or opinions cause me to tell people to get lost.  Your are welcome! 

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The doctor in the house has decided her daily exposure to potential Covid cases has officially ended our cruising this year and perhaps next. Now the rest of the cruises will have to be cancelled. Ugh. 
 

I could sail solo, because my clientele are a limited number, but I don’t want to be shot. 

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No, I do not foresee the end of cruising. I do expect changes in the product. Cruising had issues before covid-19 with infectious agents like Norovirus, influenza  etc. Now with the event of a more deadly one, they will be forced to adopt increased health, cleaning,  ventilation and other protocols as well as guest capacity reductions. It may make cruising even better and safer than it was before. 

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1 hour ago, LACruiser88 said:

I have a question, why are people that are saying "I/we are never cruising again" spending so much time on this forum, pouring negativity on those that are looking forward to the return of cruising?  Please find another forum to discuss your future vacation ideas/plans. Thank you...

 

You posted the same sentiment on May 9 (#67).  Do you have anything else to add? 

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2 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

I have a question, why are people that are saying "I/we are never cruising again" spending so much time on this forum, pouring negativity on those that are looking forward to the return of cruising?  Please find another forum to discuss your future vacation ideas/plans. Thank you...

 

2 hours ago, getting older slowly said:

Good point

 

When Cruising does start again.... the questions are  

 

what changes are there... will your still enjoy yourself with the changes

 

and will the price sky rocket  ( wither due to reduced passengers or the need for money for them to stay afloat )

 

Cheers Don

Isn't it strange? 

Suggesting that cruising isn't dead and that cruise companies and ports will adapt seems to draw ire from those who... well...honestly I'm not sure what the point or perspective is, really. It seems to be a position of "I'm afraid of cruising in the future because of what's happening right this moment, so no one else should postulate a positive future" 

 

Is cruising dead? Nope 

Will it be different? Yep

Will a lot of people still cruise? My guess is yes

There may be a good bit of reinventing the product, or perhaps very little. I'm looking forward to finding out. 

 

I wonder if prices will go up or down. Will ships be laid up, reducing supply to below demand? or will they operate on a lower margin with more ships at lower capacity? We'll have to wait and see. 

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