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Impact of Quarantine for U.S. passengers?


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I heard on the BBC News last night that the U.K. is going to start a mandatory 14-day quarantine for all persons arriving by air into the U.K.  It did not say how long that might last but I'm booked to fly from the U.S. to Heathrow just a week before my 21 September Hidden Baltics cruise.  CMV actually has an office in the U.S. so I know they must have at least a few other folk like me who fly into U.K. to take their cruises.  

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Thats a difficult one.  If the quarantine is in place in September, then unless you parchased the flight as part of the package you have a real problem.  You will need to see what the terms of the quarantine are if it does come about.  Good luck.  Mind you chances of a September cruise are probably slim anyway.

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I suspect that the two things go hand in hand. If the virus situation has improved sufficiently that the cruise is going ahead, then the 14 day quarantine period would also have been discontinued.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, marylizcat said:

I suspect that the two things go hand in hand. If the virus situation has improved sufficiently that the cruise is going ahead, then the 14 day quarantine period would also have been discontinued.

 

I wholly agree with that, though if anyone seriously believes this is going to go away to such a level in the next few months they are being somewhat over optimistic IMO.  If various countries have imposed the need for quarantine, I also cannot see where a cruise will be visiting, unless it just spends time at sea for the whole cruise duration.

Edited by tring
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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, quarantine for all travelers arriving by air or sea goes into effect June 8, but no specific end date.  That is going to create a significant problem for the cruise industry, not just us Americans flying in to take a cruise from the U.K. 

 

If, in September, this is still in place and if my CMV cruise still goes, I would be looking at flying in at least two weeks in advance, finding somewhere that met the guidelines to self-quarantine, and then on return from the cruise have to repeat that process before going to the airport to fly home. . . .

 

I have to make my final payment June 16th and I won't even know what will be happening in September. . .   I sure wish CMV would institute the great policy Fred Olsen has of final payment only 28 days before the cruise.

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From the UK briefing last night it looks like the 14 day policy will be in place for at least 3 weeks before it is reviewed. Like most of our other Covid policies it will be a rolling policy. Confirmed that if you are only transiting through and don’t leave airport you don’t have to quarantine, so if you can get onward flights same day your ok but if your sailing from UK not so great. TBF not really sure whether European sailings will happen this summer, many countries are only now starting to allow internal travel and limited travel from other EU countries.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, comcox said:

I have to make my final payment June 16th and I won't even know what will be happening in September. . .   I sure wish CMV would institute the great policy Fred Olsen has of final payment only 28 days before the cruise.

 

CMV have been allowing people to ask for a voucher to the value of the deposit paid on cruises departing fairly soon instead of paying the balance of the cruise, (current cut off is for cruises departing until 31st August as per their website).  This date may well be extended before your balance payment date, or speaking to CMV at that time may find that a decision regards that is imminent, so they may allow you to do that.  Could be a problem if you want to claim airfare cost from insurance though as it would have been your choice that the cruise had been cancelled at that stage, whilst paying balance and having cruise cancelled by CMV may possibly allow a claim if you have disruption cover on insurance.

 

Are you sure that your flights are going to take place?  I thought Trump stopped flights from Europe to US some time back and as we are advised against all but essential travel, it is highly unlikely there will be many (if any) people wanting to travel to/from the US from here.  Our Government says that "air bridges" may be agreed in the future (as full quarantine rules relax) which could be between the UK and countries that have low infection rates, (should our infection rate diminish enough that is).  The US does not seem to be heading for a low level though and who knows what will happen here in the next 3 months, which is not long.  Most UK posters on CC do not seem to expect cruises to resume before 2021, or very near that.  It has more or less been said by our government that summer holidays as we have known them will not be taking place this year - perhaps more likely some travel within the UK may be allowed for us later in the year, but not for some time yet - Home Secretary said yesterday that this is not about booking holidays when asked by a reporter.  Other European countries are also restricting travel on a national basis at first as well. 

Edited by tring
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My flights are still scheduled.  Flights from Europe are still happening; there are just fewer as they have to land at specified airports.  Right now there are "bans" in place on non-American passengers entering from certain countries.

 

Getting responses from CMV has not been easy as we have to work through their U.S. agent and U.S. website.  

 

I have a small travel insurance policy now based on deposit and flight change costs, but the minute I pay the cruise balance I have to up that policy to cover all costs and that insurance premium will not be refundable if the cruise company cancels. For example, when all my spring cruises were cancelled I lost an almost $900 premium; far greater than what few non-refundable accommodation deposits I had.  (Note In the U.S. we have to buy a policy for each trip we take as there are no total coverage annual policies such as the U.K. has).

 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, comcox said:

My flights are still scheduled.  Flights from Europe are still happening; there are just fewer as they have to land at specified airports.  Right now there are "bans" in place on non-American passengers entering from certain countries.

 

Getting responses from CMV has not been easy as we have to work through their U.S. agent and U.S. website.  

 

I have a small travel insurance policy now based on deposit and flight change costs, but the minute I pay the cruise balance I have to up that policy to cover all costs and that insurance premium will not be refundable if the cruise company cancels. For example, when all my spring cruises were cancelled I lost an almost $900 premium; far greater than what few non-refundable accommodation deposits I had.  (Note In the U.S. we have to buy a policy for each trip we take as there are no total coverage annual policies such as the U.K. has).

 

 

 

You have a lot of worries - I hope all turns out well for you ,whatever that outcome is.

 

Since you appear to have booked your cruise in the US, I do not believe ABTA will cover you if CMV goes bust.  We would be able to claim charge back from a credit or debit card if the cruise was paid with the card, so wondering if charge back would be an option for you if CMV fold (not that I have a reason to think they will at present)?  The section 75 cover we have for credit card payments would not be applicable to you.

 

Our politicians are all giving rather elusive replies regards the future of the holidays as do not want to be tied to predictions, but the attitude does not give an optimistic outlook in the near future.  When Boris was asked about holidays a week or two ago he said something like, "We are prioritising ourselves".  I am not sure of his exact words, but definitely included the word prioritising and a reference to the UK c.f. abroad.  The furlough scheme has also been extended until late October to financially help people who are currently without work due to the close downs.  It has also been said that social distancing of some type will be in place until there is a vaccine or good treatment discovered and widely available, which is not really expected within the next year.  We personally think land holidays will be possible before cruises and a lot of itinerary changes could well happen when cruises do happen.

 

I do not mean to be totally downing of your hopes for the cruise, which I can understand, but trying to offer some facts that can help you make your own mind up about it and perhaps understand the mood music over here about the next few months at least.  We would, personally, not be re scheduling for mid summer next year either.  We have been able to get a voucher for a deposit on a CMV cruise which was due in July, but are hanging on to it to book when we feel fit (voucher valid for bookings until 31st March next year and can be used for any cruise in 2021 or 2222 which they say will be released later this year).  If CMV go bust, we will loose the cost of that voucher, but it is not a lot of cash.  It is very difficult for us to get in touch with any holiday firm and I spent most of an hour on the phone waiting to speak to CMV, but we were able to claim the voucher for the deposit by email once it had been offered for the timing of our cruise.  I should think you will have similar difficulties with CMV (and other holiday companies) over there.  I will post here if I see the possibility of getting a voucher for the deposit extended to cruises after 31st August, if that is an option which would interest you. 

 

Good luck with whatever you hope to do. 

Edited by tring
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Thanks so much Tring for all your insights.  This was very helpful in trying to understand things from over there.  The CMV U.S. agent is very sweet but not always knowledgeable.

 

I received confirmation from U.S. agent this morning that final payment will still be due June 16th so it's likely I will just cancel the day before.  I just can't see laying out more money on a real iffy booking.

 

The cancellation fee for U.S. bookings is $50 if done before 90 days, but I don't know what it will be for my cousin, who is in U.K., if he cancels also since he booked because I was going.  Right now he's confined to IOM where they have no passenger ferry service until lockdown lifted.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, comcox said:

Thanks so much Tring for all your insights.  This was very helpful in trying to understand things from over there.  The CMV U.S. agent is very sweet but not always knowledgeable.

 

I received confirmation from U.S. agent this morning that final payment will still be due June 16th so it's likely I will just cancel the day before.  I just can't see laying out more money on a real iffy booking.

 

The cancellation fee for U.S. bookings is $50 if done before 90 days, but I don't know what it will be for my cousin, who is in U.K., if he cancels also since he booked because I was going.  Right now he's confined to IOM where they have no passenger ferry service until lockdown lifted.

 

If the IOM is standard UK regs, then your cousin would loose his deposit.  Looking at my posts on another thread, I reported on the 8th May that CMV had cancelled more cruises until 30th June and extended the option to get a voucher to cover cost of a deposit for cruises departing up to 31st August.  As cancellations are usually done on a monthly rolling basis if there is a temporary stop in place (e.g. FCO advice against travel), it is likely more cancellations and the option to claim a voucher for deposits would be extended before mid June and may also be a option for you, so fingers crossed.

 

Certainly in the UK there would be no chance to re claim deposit amount if the balance is not paid, as not paying would mean the individual was in breach of contract, so had effectively cancelled the contract himself.  Another point is that a voucher for deposit cost would not be covered by ABTA if CMV were to collapse, but a live booking would be, so the best consumer advice in the UK is to pay the balance and request a refund when/if the cruise is cancelled as that should result in a full refund (at some stage), and would be covered by ABTA if the company collapses before the refund is made.  We chose to accept the voucher for the deposit knowing that, but it was only £200 c.f. with an extra £2,000 if we paid the balance, so we are taking that risk.

 

If you do not have chance to get a voucher to cover your deposit, $50 does not sound too bad and would save a lot of worry for you.  Must admit we are not sure we want to be on a ship whilst various restraints (and likely port changes) are in place and are even thinking the same about our land holiday to Spain in November.  We have a big P&O cruise to the N. American Eastern Seaboard in Sept 2021 and we are hoping all will be settled by then as it would be an expensive holiday to have restrictions affect our enjoyment of it.  There are hopes there will be a vaccine or some effective treatment in place by then though.

 

Such sad times, but there are those in the world who are far worse placed than us.   

Edited by tring
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"so the best consumer advice in the UK is to pay the balance and request a refund when/if the cruise is cancelled as that should result in a full refund (at some stage), and would be covered by ABTA if the company collapses before the refund is made."

 

Just to clarify for my tiny brain.  If CMV were to go bust and I had paid the full fare would ABTA, in due course, refund the whole sum or only a partial amount?

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1 hour ago, Boltonian said:

"so the best consumer advice in the UK is to pay the balance and request a refund when/if the cruise is cancelled as that should result in a full refund (at some stage), and would be covered by ABTA if the company collapses before the refund is made."

 

Just to clarify for my tiny brain.  If CMV were to go bust and I had paid the full fare would ABTA, in due course, refund the whole sum or only a partial amount?

They would refund the full amount.  That is unless a lot of travel companies go out of business and ABTA ran out of money!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Dinglebert said:

They would refund the full amount.  That is unless a lot of travel companies go out of business and ABTA ran out of money!

ABTA are backed by insurance if they run out of funds.  In a similar way ATOL (which will protect fly cruises) are protected, but the Government picks up the bill in that case.  In fact in the first instance should a company fold, customers will be expected to claim from a credit card company if they had paid with a CC, otherwise the claim is made direct to ABTA (or ATOL).You need to have booked in the UK though and with an ABTA backed company, which most are, including CMV. 

 

Yes lots of delays now which is a problem and ABTA have been trying to get rules changed to allow companies to use refund credit notes (different to the voucher we have from CMV with specific requirements), but they still allow for refund, but at a date in the future.  If a company goes bust they would be refunded by ABTA as well.  Government are not making any moves towards those though, but there seems to be a blind eye to the slow movement of refunds as we all know.  My husband spent his working life in consumer protection and was poised to pay the balance had we not had the chance to ask for a voucher.  That voucher is still a risk as vouchers are not protected by ABTA, but a risk we were prepared to take, verses the hassle of having to claim a refund as we had only paid a small deposit.

Edited by tring
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9 hours ago, tring said:

  That voucher is still a risk as vouchers are not protected by ABTA, but a risk we were prepared to take, verses the hassle of having to claim a refund as we had only paid a small deposit.

According to P and O, RCI and Cunard their FCC are covered by ABTA.  If true and no reason to disbelieve then so must other cruise lines be.

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I am very grateful for the responses to my question re ABTA.  At least now I have more information on which to base a final decision on whether to go ahead and pay the full fare or cancel and lose my deposit.  Thank you.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Dinglebert said:

According to P and O, RCI and Cunard their FCC are covered by ABTA.  If true and no reason to disbelieve then so must other cruise lines be.

 

It depends on what their "FCC" consists of.  ABTA are saying they will cover "Refund Credit Notes" (as I mentioned in my previous post).  You can see on the ABTA website that it is a legal change regards those that they have been asking for, but as yet the Government have not made any change.   The "voucher" we have from CMV does not follow the requirements of ABTA for "refund credit notes", so is purely a voucher.  ABTA also say that they will not cover "vouchers" and in fact have never covered vouchers in the past - in effect they are worthless in a legal sense.

 

What would and would not be covered is to be seen if the companies you mention were to fold, but what I do know is that DH would not consider taking a FCC from anyone unless the law is changed regards that as ABTA would like it to be, (so a "refund credit note" would be recognised in law - still not "vouchers" though, so you need to draw a distinction).  A good place to look for advice is the "Which" website as that is a consumer group and set up for the benefit of consumers, compared with ABTA which is a trade organisation.  Hence you may wish to be a bit selective regards taking the "advice" of ABTA who obviously want to support the trade.

 

If the law is changed, the suggestion (by ABTA) is that holiday companies will legally be able to give Refund Credit Notes in the first instance, instead of a refund, but that if the credit is not used to buy a future holiday, they can be redeemed for cash at the expiry date (possibly a year or so later).  So effectively, you could still get a refund, but will be making a free loan to the holiday company in the interim. The ABTA website says what is required for something to be considered a refund credit note, rather than a voucher. 

 

A better understanding would be best gained from the Which website, with reference to the ABTA site as well since my short explanation may be unclear.  Again this only applies to people who book their cruise in the UK and not for cruises booked abroad - I have no knowledge of their laws.  

 

Edited by tring
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Boltonian said:

I am very grateful for the responses to my question re ABTA.  At least now I have more information on which to base a final decision on whether to go ahead and pay the full fare or cancel and lose my deposit.  Thank you.

 

Please see my previous post, which may help a little more.  It is possible the law could still change regards refund credit notes, so a delayed refund may happen.  Simon Calder is always very reliable in his advice and he pops up on TV from time to time and would likely do so if the law does change. 

Edited by tring
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12 minutes ago, tring said:

 

It depends on what their "FCC" consists of.  ABTA are saying they will cover Refund Credit Notes (as I mentioned in my previous post) and you can see that on their website and it is a legal change regards those that they have been asking for, but as yet the Government have not made a change.   The "voucher" we have from CMV does not follow the requirements of ABTA for "refund credit notes", so is purely a voucher.  ABTA also say that they will not cover "vouchers" and in fact have never covered vouchers in the past - in effect they are worthless in a legal sense.

 

What would and would not be covered is to be seen if the companies you mention were to fold, but what I do know is that DH would not consider taking a FCC from anyone unless the law is changed regards that as ABTA would like it to be, (so a "refund credit note" would have to be recognised in law - still not vouchers though so you need to draw a distinction).  A good place to look for advice is the "Which" website as that is a consumer group and set up for the benefit of consumers, compared with ABTA which is a trade organisation, so you may wish to be a bit selective regards taking the "advice" of ABTA who obviously want to support the trade.

 

If the law is changed, the suggestion (by ABTA) is that holiday companies will legally be able to give Refund Credit Notes in the first instance, instead of a refund, but that if the credit is not used to buy a future holiday, they can be redeemed for cash at a later date (possibly a year or so later).  So effectively, you could still get a refund, but will be making a free loan to the holiday company in the interim. The ABTA website says what is required for something to be considered a refund credit note. 

 

A better understanding would be best gained from the Which website, with reference to the ABTA site as well since my short explanation may be unclear.  Again this only applies to people who book their cruise in the UK and not for cruises booked abroad - I have no knowledge of their laws.  

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but it is very confusing.  This is taken directly from P+O

 

100% of the cruise fare paid by you and held as an FCC is bonded by ABTA or ATOL (for fly-cruises) so you can be secure in the knowledge that your monies are protected under those arrangements.

 

Same goes for RCI and Cunard.  The are all called FCC.  If C&M are issueing a different type of voucher but calling it the same thing that doesn't make me wish to take one.

 

My own cruise is yet to be cancelled.  Given its in July it will be.  I will be taking my money back (eventually).

 

I don't personally see their being a change in the law in the near future.  I have no idea if it would take an act of parliament or a ministerial change.  If the former they wouldn't doing anything much in the coming months.

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1 minute ago, Dinglebert said:

I'm not disagreeing with you but it is very confusing.  This is taken directly from P+O

 

100% of the cruise fare paid by you and held as an FCC is bonded by ABTA or ATOL (for fly-cruises) so you can be secure in the knowledge that your monies are protected under those arrangements.

 

Same goes for RCI and Cunard.  The are all called FCC.  If C&M are issueing a different type of voucher but calling it the same thing that doesn't make me wish to take one.

 

My own cruise is yet to be cancelled.  Given its in July it will be.  I will be taking my money back (eventually).

 

I don't personally see their being a change in the law in the near future.  I have no idea if it would take an act of parliament or a ministerial change.  If the former they wouldn't doing anything much in the coming months.

 

There are relatively easy ways to change an existing law, but will not go into that.

 

The whole situation regards refunds is very confusing and wholly unsatisfactory at present, so I can actually see a point in the law being changed, but if it is, the Government would be telling voters that they have to give a free loan to holiday companies......Mmmm.  We have got refunds from Fred for cruises cancelled in March and April and must admit they do seem to be acting better in all respects.  The companies you mention can say what they want and indeed it does not mean the information they give is incorrect, but without a law change it is not a legal obligation and if they go bust they cannot be held accountable for what they had said in the past.  It is quite possible though that they have come to a financial arrangement with ABTA for their FCC's to be covered and they may well obey the requirements of ABTA's "refund credit notes".  I just know that DH with a previous working life in consumer protection would not accept a large FCC from anyone, unless it was protected by a legal change.  Of course the other problem at present is getting insurance for another holiday booking as full insurance is not available at present.  We are hoping that will again be available before we have to use our voucher - fingers crossed.

 

Regards our voucher, I need to clarify that it has been given for the deposit cost only, so without paying the balance we had no legal right to anything as we would have been in breach of contract if we had not paid. 

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12 minutes ago, tring said:

 

 

 

Regards our voucher, I need to clarify that it has been given for the deposit cost only, so without paying the balance we had no legal right to anything as we would have been in breach of contract if we had not paid. 

I have fully paid so fortunately not in that position.  Thats only for that cruise though.  I have a holiday in October to Spain and at this point have no intention of going.  Will probably have to lose the deposit.  Live in hope that next years cruise will go ahead as normal.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

I have fully paid so fortunately not in that position.  Thats only for that cruise though.  I have a holiday in October to Spain and at this point have no intention of going.  Will probably have to lose the deposit.  Live in hope that next years cruise will go ahead as normal.

 

We are due in Nerja for 4 weeks in November and in a similar quandary.  I have been keeping an eye on the Costa del Sol forums on TA and things getting a bit more optimistic about hols going ahead later in the year, but as we are 70 we are pretty wary about the idea.

 

Good luck with future plans.

Edited by tring
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To the OP and others,

 This thread is very helpful and informative. We too are booked for a CMV Baltic cruise in September (one Astoria's last) so I am cautiously hopeful infections and, more importantly, deaths will have stabilized on a downward slope by then.  We have until 22 or 24 June to pay in full, but I doubt there will be a lot of change in COVID-related policies in the next 3 weeks that will assist with our decision.

 

Like the OP we also happen to be Marylanders 👋 or at least we live in Maryland (never called myself a Marylander before this 🙊)

 

Unlike the OP, we booked directly with CMV UK. I am not sure whether we would fall under ABTA rules... does that depend on the company's location of the consumer's?

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4 hours ago, ColdCruise said:

To the OP and others,

 This thread is very helpful and informative. We too are booked for a CMV Baltic cruise in September (one Astoria's last) so I am cautiously hopeful infections and, more importantly, deaths will have stabilized on a downward slope by then.  We have until 22 or 24 June to pay in full, but I doubt there will be a lot of change in COVID-related policies in the next 3 weeks that will assist with our decision.

 

Like the OP we also happen to be Marylanders 👋 or at least we live in Maryland (never called myself a Marylander before this 🙊)

 

Unlike the OP, we booked directly with CMV UK. I am not sure whether we would fall under ABTA rules... does that depend on the company's location of the consumer's?

Glad to see someone else in my quandary.  How were you able to book directly with CMV UK?  I cannot even pull up their website from home, only the U.S. website.  My Baltic cruise is Sept. 21 from Bristol on the Magellan and the U.S. agent said my payment due date is June 16. 

 

CMV, however, only seems to announce any cancellation/changes once a month to cover the following 30-60 days at a time.  They are suppose to make another announcement Monday, June 1, but I doubt it will cover cruises as far as September.  And the UK government is not going review their new 14-day mandatory quarantine ruling until June 29th, and every 3 weeks thereafter  as it continues.

 

I really do not want want a cruise to nowhere or someplace else.  I would just go ahead and cancel before June 16 as it would only be a $50 cancellation fee at that point, but my cousin who lives in the U.K. booked this cruise to go with me and that would leave him hanging.  I'm still waiting on a $4458 refund for my cancelled May cruises from CMV and, if they should cancel September, I don't want to add to that a voucher which may not have any consumer protection here.  

 

Would that they were as great as Fred Olsen.  I got a full refund on my cancelled April cruise within 30 days and now they offer a final payment deadline of 28 days before sailing so passengers have a chance to now what is happening before they make that financial commitment.

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On 5/30/2020 at 4:33 AM, ColdCruise said:

 

 

Unlike the OP, we booked directly with CMV UK. I am not sure whether we would fall under ABTA rules... does that depend on the company's location of the consumer's?

 

I cannot find the full wording of the ABTA rules etc. which we picked up previously, but I will give you the link to the ABTA site.  If you scroll to the bottom of that page (to the dark blue section) and click on "about", then follow on with clicking on "who are we", you will find the wording I have copied below:-

 

"If you book your holiday from outside the EEA, this protection won't apply but other schemes may apply.

Always ask your travel company about the type of financial protection it has in place."

 

ABTA website:-  https://www.abta.com/

 

You are better contacting CMV or your agent to clarify your position though TBH - perhaps by email as always useful to have replies in writing.

 

Membership of ABTA in the UK means companies are covered by their protection.  All companies have to be bonded to protect their customer's money and if not ABTA members, they have to provide that in another way (e.g. customers money kept in a ring fenced account or companies take their own insurance to cover it).  This a a requirement of the EU legislation (package travel regs.), but those regs. requires each country to bring in their own laws to protect the money, so the law is UK law.  Of course, once we fully "leave" the EU our government could change this law, but highly unlikely in the near future.  The changes ABTA want at present are on a temporary basis to protect the travel industry over the COVID period.

 

A brief update regards England - COVID requirements being relaxed, but some of the scientists advising the government are saying this was a political decision and they felt there were too many infected to go that far at at present, especially as the track and trace system is not fully in place.  Hence quite possible that restrictions here can take a backward movement with stricter controls re applied, possibly on a local basis, rather than go forward with more relaxations as was hoped.  Scotland, Wales and Ireland are responsible for their own changes and seem to be more prudent at present.  Some European countries (e.g. Greece and Spain) are planing to relax their rules to allow travel, but are not interested in travelers from the UK at present, due to our high infection rates - even if our travel rules are relaxed (and not much sign of that).

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