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In isolated Galapagos Islands, coronavirus wrecks tourism-reliant economy


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21 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Exchanhging your health for a few dollars is non-sensical in my book.  Also live in Florida where snowbirds like to flock during the winter - less expensive local than yours.  Businesses have been built over the years to accommodate the added seasonal population.  Reducing the seasonal flow would downsize some businesses but not all.  Medical facilities would benefit from fewer transients as would security.  Much prefer the "old Florida" over today where lands are being converted to larger roads, pastures and orange groves to trailer parks and small hobbits to provide snowbirds places to fly to during winter months.  If it takes an income tax, so be it.

So were you actually born and raised in Florida?  Or did you relocate or retire there so not officially an annual snowbird?   I was a homeowner in one of the touristy areas in the state.  I agree that businesses have been built over the years to handle tourism definitely.  But a lot more built to handle retirees from other states and countries.  Old Florida existed before planes. trains and automobiles.😀

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44 minutes ago, sippican said:

 

You cited "the Mouse" specifically. I was looking for verification that Disney (as opposed to other theme parks, beaches, spring break, key west, Gulf Coast, Miami, snopwdird migration, etc.) contributed the major portion of ad valorum taxes in the state. Just curious.

 

Here in Central Florida when we say the Mouse we mean everything that has come to Orlando since 1971, the tourism explosion. Most folks don’t realize that prior to that time Florida’s number one industry by far was agriculture, it’s still number two. Yes, there have always been “snowbirds” here but to think that they are the reason we don’t have an income tax is absurd.
 

FWIW, Disney is largest employer in the state.

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3 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Yes,

You may thing sports are unnecessary, but sports mean a lot to most Americans.   Coronavirus is not a threat to young people.  I seem to really that there have been one fatality for people under 22 in the USA and that was a person with underlying conditions.

 

As for catching the virus, that can be closely monitored with testing.   As for transmitting the virus to Seniors or those with underlying condition, that can be handled very easily.   It is very likely that schools and Universities in most of the USA will open in the Fall.  With your logic, Universities should not open until  (???).  Yes, tell us when you think schools and Universities should open.

CDC indicates that 71 people 24 and under have died from COVID-19. Even allowing for their slightly higher age limit, 79 is a far cry from 1. Their closest age bracket for university students is 15-24, with 59 deaths. This figure would undoubtedly have been higher had schools and universities not been closed.

 

Opening universities will probably see a mix of classes with social distancing and many classes presented online. That's a very different environment than a football field. Along with rugby, wrestling and a few other sports, football poses one of the highest levels of threat of transmission.

 

Once infected, and there is no doubt that many would be, the players pose a direct threat of infecting others, both on and off the field. You state that this can be handled easily, so you might want to share your miraculous solution with the world's infectious disease experts. BTW, the concern isn't solely for seniors and those with underlying conditions, it is for anyone with whom they come in contact.

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4 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Yes,

You may thing sports are unnecessary, but sports mean a lot to most Americans.   Coronavirus is not a threat to young people.  I seem to really that there have been one fatality for people under 22 in the USA and that was a person with underlying conditions.

 

As for catching the virus, that can be closely monitored with testing.   As for transmitting the virus to Seniors or those with underlying condition, that can be handled very easily.   It is very likely that schools and Universities in most of the USA will open in the Fall.  With your logic, Universities should not open until  (???).  Yes, tell us when you think schools and Universities should open.

Mayo Clinic:

 

Children of all ages can become ill with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). But most kids who are infected typically don't become as sick as adults and some might not show any symptoms at all. Know the symptoms of COVID-19 in babies and children, why children might be affected differently by COVID-19and what you can do to prevent the spread of the virus.

 

 

While all children are capable of getting COVID-19, they don't become sick as often as adults. Children also rarely experience severe illness with COVID-19. Despite many large outbreaks around the world, very few children have died.

 

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), among nearly 150,000 cases of COVID-19 in the U.S. between Feb. 12 and April 2, only about 2,500, or 1.7%, were in children. This is similar to what has been reported in other countries, such as China and Italy, that have had large outbreaks. Hospitalization rates for children have been much lower than for adults.

 

In addition, children are less likely to have an existing chronic medical health condition, such as heart disease, high blood pressure or diabetes. Adults who have these conditions are at higher risk of serious illness with COVID-19. It's not yet clear how children who have chronic medical conditions or special needs are affected by COVID-19.

 

Professional athletes from all sports have caught COVID-19.  They usually weather it better than those of us over 40.  Good article over the weekend in Washington Post of healthy 12-year old girl who went into cardiac arrest twice after catching the virus.  

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2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

So were you actually born and raised in Florida?  Or did you relocate or retire there so not officially an annual snowbird?   I was a homeowner in one of the touristy areas in the state.  I agree that businesses have been built over the years to handle tourism definitely.  But a lot more built to handle retirees from other states and countries.  Old Florida existed before planes. trains and automobiles.😀

 

Henry Flagler, builder of the Florida East Coast railway completed in 1912, is primarily credited with expanding "snowbird" access to Florida via rail.

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12 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

CDC indicates that 71 people 24 and under have died from COVID-19. Even allowing for their slightly higher age limit, 79 is a far cry from 1. Their closest age bracket for university students is 15-24, with 59 deaths. This figure would undoubtedly have been higher had schools and universities not been closed.

 

Opening universities will probably see a mix of classes with social distancing and many classes presented online. That's a very different environment than a football field. Along with rugby, wrestling and a few other sports, football poses one of the highest levels of threat of transmission.

 

Once infected, and there is no doubt that many would be, the players pose a direct threat of infecting others, both on and off the field. You state that this can be handled easily, so you might want to share your miraculous solution with the world's infectious disease experts. BTW, the concern isn't solely for seniors and those with underlying conditions, it is for anyone with whom they come in contact.

Thanks for the update, the numbers that I quoted were not up to date.

 

What I just found is that as of May 13, for NY with 15,000 deaths only 9  and 6 had underlying conditions.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

For the nation, with 91,000 plus deaths, by the fatality rate per age group is for those who contract the disease.

There is a 0.2 % fatality rate for those each the following age groups:

30-39

20-29

10-19

 

This percentage amounts to one-fifth of one percent or two persons out of 1000 who contract the disease.

 

My solution doesn't exist, it comes from the what I have seen proposed by sports authorities.  

 

Shutting down any sport, such as basketball, soccer, rugby, football, baseball or whatever until there is a vaccine (which may never arrive) because of this level of risk is not going to happen.  169,936 people died from accidents in 2017.  Auto accidents are a major cause.  OK, that is almost double the death rate of the virus.  Living involves some risks.

 

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23 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Exchanhging your health for a few dollars is non-sensical in my book.  Also live in Florida where snowbirds like to flock during the winter - less expensive local than yours.  Businesses have been built over the years to accommodate the added seasonal population.  Reducing the seasonal flow would downsize some businesses but not all.  Medical facilities would benefit from fewer transients as would security.  Much prefer the "old Florida" over today where lands are being converted to larger roads, pastures and orange groves to trailer parks and small hobbits to provide snowbirds places to fly to during winter months.  If it takes an income tax, so be it.

Different states have different tax structures.  Florida may not have a state income tax but they do have a higher property tax than a number of others states (around 2% compared compared to California's 1%), They have a sales tax between 6 and 8.5%. They also have a property transfer tax of around 2%.

 

It all pretty much balances out. Some have sales tax, some have income, some have higher property.  The advantage of property taxes is that it is more consistent than income tax during down economic periods. All the states get their money one way or another. Though Florida does rank 47th in over all tax load.

Edited by npcl
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On 5/17/2020 at 8:14 AM, 4774Papa said:

We are looking a Galapagos visit in the next few years.  

 

However, until this virus is under control or a vaccine is available, we not not planning any overseas trips.

 

 

2 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Shutting down any sport, such as basketball, soccer, rugby, football, baseball or whatever until there is a vaccine (which may never arrive) because of this level of risk is not going to happen. 

 

So, it's ok for college kids to risk their lives for your entertainment, but you won't risk cruising until the virus is under control or a vaccine is available. Got it. 

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4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

So, it's ok for college kids to risk their lives for your entertainment, but you won't risk cruising until the virus is under control or a vaccine is available. Got it. 

Our travel decision is more a factor of what the virus has done to travel.  We wanted to go to Israel early next year, but the uncertainties (as I stated before we are not that concerned about getting the virus, even for us the risk is very low) with travel, it doesn't make sense to plan a trip until things settle down.

 

As I said before, I don't think athletes in great health, all younger than 22 will be at risk, especially with proper precautions.  Have you visited a restaurant, grocery store or Home Depot and thought that the clerks, waitstaff or cashiers are at significant risk?

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38 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

Our travel decision is more a factor of what the virus has done to travel.  We wanted to go to Israel early next year, but the uncertainties (as I stated before we are not that concerned about getting the virus, even for us the risk is very low) with travel, it doesn't make sense to plan a trip until things settle down.

 

As I said before, I don't think athletes in great health, all younger than 22 will be at risk, especially with proper precautions.  Have you visited a restaurant, grocery store or Home Depot and thought that the clerks, waitstaff or cashiers are at significant risk?

I'm still waiting to hear what these "proper precautions" are that would prevent the transmission of the virus on the gridiron.

 

As for the various employees you mention, they operate here with strict social distancing, something impossible for players in a football game. I've yet to see them tackle one another, face one another across a line of scrimmage, or be part of a pileup of bodies fighting to recover a fumbled melon in the produce department. YMMV.

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2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

As I said before, I don't think athletes in great health, all younger than 22 will be at risk, especially with proper precautions.  Have you visited a restaurant, grocery store or Home Depot and thought that the clerks, waitstaff or cashiers are at significant risk?

The NBA had to shut down this year when Rudy Gobert (age 27) (shortly followed by his teammate, Donovan Mitchell, age 23), both great young athletes in the peak of condition, contracted COVID-19. Don't kid yourself.

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21 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 

Henry Flagler, builder of the Florida East Coast railway completed in 1912, is primarily credited with expanding "snowbird" access to Florida via rail.

Yes I am aware of that.  I have been to St Augustine.  But you avoided answering my previous question.  

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There is a good article in the NY TImes that addresses how residents in over-touristed  locations are dealing with it.  Specifically, there are those in the Galapagos that propose a one week a year total shutdown to take a breath and reset.  No ships, no incoming tourists, no hotel stays.  Something like that would be at least a start.  Likely not workable in major cities (Venice, Barcelona, Amsterdam, e.g.) but easy to administer with adequate advance notice in the Galapagos, Easter Island, Boracay, Bali to name just a few.

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On 5/18/2020 at 12:36 PM, 4774Papa said:

Thanks for the update, the numbers that I quoted were not up to date.

 

What I just found is that as of May 13, for NY with 15,000 deaths only 9  and 6 had underlying conditions.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

For the nation, with 91,000 plus deaths, by the fatality rate per age group is for those who contract the disease.

There is a 0.2 % fatality rate for those each the following age groups:

30-39

20-29

10-19

 

This percentage amounts to one-fifth of one percent or two persons out of 1000 who contract the disease.

 

My solution doesn't exist, it comes from the what I have seen proposed by sports authorities.  

 

Shutting down any sport, such as basketball, soccer, rugby, football, baseball or whatever until there is a vaccine (which may never arrive) because of this level of risk is not going to happen.  169,936 people died from accidents in 2017.  Auto accidents are a major cause.  OK, that is almost double the death rate of the virus.  Living involves some risks.

 

 

20 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Our travel decision is more a factor of what the virus has done to travel.  We wanted to go to Israel early next year, but the uncertainties (as I stated before we are not that concerned about getting the virus, even for us the risk is very low) with travel, it doesn't make sense to plan a trip until things settle down.

 

As I said before, I don't think athletes in great health, all younger than 22 will be at risk, especially with proper precautions.  Have you visited a restaurant, grocery store or Home Depot and thought that the clerks, waitstaff or cashiers are at significant risk?

 

So, I'm still waiting for your answer to this claim you made:    "As for transmitting the virus to Seniors or those with underlying condition, that can be handled very easily."

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2020 at 9:36 AM, 4774Papa said:

Thanks for the update, the numbers that I quoted were not up to date.

 

What I just found is that as of May 13, for NY with 15,000 deaths only 9  and 6 had underlying conditions.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

For the nation, with 91,000 plus deaths, by the fatality rate per age group is for those who contract the disease.

There is a 0.2 % fatality rate for those each the following age groups:

30-39

20-29

10-19

 

This percentage amounts to one-fifth of one percent or two persons out of 1000 who contract the disease.

 

My solution doesn't exist, it comes from the what I have seen proposed by sports authorities.  

 

Shutting down any sport, such as basketball, soccer, rugby, football, baseball or whatever until there is a vaccine (which may never arrive) because of this level of risk is not going to happen.  169,936 people died from accidents in 2017.  Auto accidents are a major cause.  OK, that is almost double the death rate of the virus.  Living involves some risks.

 

 

Children don't have a COVID-19 free pass.  They just respond differently.  Often weeks after the initial infection.

 

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/cdc-confirms-link-of-inflammatory-syndrome-in-children-to-covid-19-145-potential-cases-in-nyc/2421547/

 

Cases of a rare, potentially deadly syndrome in children have been identified in nearly half the nation's states, just days after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention confirmed the link between the coronavirus and the new illness.

New York City's health department has found 147 cases of children sickened by what was previously referred to as pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome (PIMS-TS), Mayor Bill de Blasio said Tuesday. He says the city will work under the CDC's latest definition of what it now calls multi-system inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) to determine the most accurate case count.

Edited by npcl
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20 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Our travel decision is more a factor of what the virus has done to travel.  We wanted to go to Israel early next year, but the uncertainties (as I stated before we are not that concerned about getting the virus, even for us the risk is very low) with travel, it doesn't make sense to plan a trip until things settle down.

 

As I said before, I don't think athletes in great health, all younger than 22 will be at risk, especially with proper precautions.  Have you visited a restaurant, grocery store or Home Depot and thought that the clerks, waitstaff or cashiers are at significant risk?

Actually yes.  Anyone with face to face contact with large number of people are at significant risk.

 

 

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On 5/16/2020 at 4:37 PM, travel guy said:

Sorry to hear that you couldn't go on your Galapagos trip! I hope that you reschedule and get to experience the Galapagos. I am likely in the same situation for July 2020. I am waiting on the official cancelation from Celebrity. May I ask if you received an FCC for your Galapagos cancelation? And were you on a 10-day or 11-day program? I ask because I am on a 10-day and am wondering how Celebrity is calculating the 125% FCC with a cruise + land package.  Thank you.

Sorry for my slow response, I just realized you asked me questions.  Not sure what happened to this thread, but I really do feel bad for the residents of Galapagos.  Anyway...We were on a 10-day program and we got our cash back.  At the time, FCC had to be used by the end of 2021 and we can't go (for various reasons) until 2022.  Even though we have three cruises before then, we couldn't have used up all of the FCC on all of those, so we chose to get a refund.

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2 hours ago, sippican said:

 

 

So, I'm still waiting for your answer to this claim you made:    "As for transmitting the virus to Seniors or those with underlying condition, that can be handled very easily."

There has been a lot of news on this issue in the sports news the past couple of weeks.

It appears that the NCL, NBA, College Football, etc. are going to restart, largely in empty stadiums with rules isolate athletes, extensive testing and more.

Seniors like my wife and self have adjusted by cancelling trips to visit our grandchildren for the next months, staying home except for our daily walks, as well as necessary trips to the doctor, dentist (open now in Georgia), the grocery store, pharmacy and an occasional meal through takeout or a sit down restaurant (Georgia is now a 50% capacity open for restaurants).  We wear masks when we go out and carry gloves if needed.

 

Athletes could be instructed to avoid exposing Seniors. 

 

 

I have seen TV shows and discussions on the subject that call for opening colleges where some classes would be still on line, others would not.   Athletes at my University reside at dormitories for other athletes.   If colleges are open once more, that difference would it make if athletes played sports?  Yes, in football they get close, but with proper testing and supervision it should work.  The SEC, Big 12, Big 10 and ACC have tentatively announced they plan to have sports in the Fall.  The Pac 12 is still undecided.  Contrary to some posters on this threat, it is not an absurd idea.

 

Our community of 85,000 people has had 75 coronavirus cases with one fatality.  Senior nursing homes have serious lockdown rules.  We live in a neighborhood that has like minded people that don't try to come within that 6ft space.  Still, people are going to the beach and following the guidance.

 

There is a lot of new about sports opening, this is just a few. This is more for the NFL.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/16/nfl-coronavirus-contingency-plans-short-schedule-no-fans/

 

“There’s a way of doing that,” Dr. Fauci said. “Nobody comes to the stadium. Put [players and personnel] in big hotels, wherever you want to play, keep them very well-surveilled …Have them tested like every week and make sure they don’t wind up infecting each other or their family. And just let them play the season out.”

 

There has been discussion about having some fans in the stands (a fraction of the capacity).  That would likely happen later in the season.

 https://www.wbir.com/article/sports/college/vols/looking-at-social-distancing-scenarios-in-neyland-stadium/51-f72c66fd-e2c1-4182-9e20-e363f23389d0

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/18/2020 at 7:56 AM, 4774Papa said:

Yes,

You may thing sports are unnecessary, but sports mean a lot to most Americans.   Coronavirus is not a threat to young people.  I seem to really that there have been one fatality for people under 22 in the USA and that was a person with underlying conditions.

 

As for catching the virus, that can be closely monitored with testing.   As for transmitting the virus to Seniors or those with underlying condition, that can be handled very easily.   It is very likely that schools and Universities in most of the USA will open in the Fall.  With your logic, Universities should not open until  (???).  Yes, tell us when you think schools and Universities should open.

Well said...cowering in place is over in many areas, including mine.  Georgia is looking really good so far.  

Edited by PTC DAWG
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1 hour ago, bEwAbG said:

You should watch John Oliver's show this week that talks about sports.  In short, not as easy as imagined. 

 

 

Does he ever deviate from his agenda? 

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24 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Does he ever deviate from his agenda?

 

Did you watch the clip?  Have any corrections you'd like to make?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

 

Seniors like my wife and self have adjusted by cancelling trips to visit our grandchildren for the next months, staying home except for our daily walks, as well as necessary trips to the doctor, dentist (open now in Georgia), the grocery store, pharmacy and an occasional meal through takeout or a sit down restaurant (Georgia is now a 50% capacity open for restaurants).  We wear masks when we go out and carry gloves if needed.

 

Athletes could be instructed to avoid exposing Seniors. 

 

 

Sorry if I missed something else but I just didn't want to bog down the thread with a lengthy quote. As I understand it, basically, your solution to handling seniors and those with underlying issues seems to be status quo, while the rest of the population goes about opening.

IMHO, that means a longer period of no contact with those we cherish.

 

Edited by sippican
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