Fain says early cruises will be at reduced capacity

[luckyinpa]

im not familiar with X ships but i know other ships that cabin corridors dont go around the ship so the one way idea is impossible there. ive been forward in a princess ship and its a dead end as with NCL as well

 

people who paid old rates and get half the people off are blessed, that would be  dream for me. and the extra crew not needed would be needed to clean every chair when every guest gets up

[luckyinpa]

On 5/23/2020 at 5:41 PM, phoenix_dream said:

Boy I hope you're wrong.  It can be a really long way from one end of the ship to the other and if you have to sometimes go half-way around a different direction that could make it really long, on S class in particular.  The bottom line is, unfortunately, there is really no good way to social distance on a cruise ship so these kind of changes would bring minimal protection at best I think.

 

 

anyone on NCL breakaway class, bliss etc, knows the horrible setup there. in the atrium theres a tiny hallway the length of the ship in the middle and thats it. its THE Busiest part of the ship with entertainment and guest services etc etc. everyone has to use the central hallway on the 3 'business floors'

 

theres no point in any distancing anywhere else when you cannot do it in the busiest part of the ship

[luckyinpa]

On 5/23/2020 at 5:15 PM, reallyhooked said:

We moved our paid  in full canceled  March cruise / air fare to December. Will be disappointed, but not surprised if this one gets canceled to. Will request full refund, so we can take our time and not be under pressure to use FCC by a set date.  If social distance is still in effect,  don't see how a cruise will be enjoyable. Stay safe. 

 

ive never flown to a cruise but if they cancel the cruise do they pay a persons airfare and hotel that are non refundable as well? i cannot imagine people getting canceled and eating all those costs. i know especially in far away lands people book days in advance to explore. 

[Covepointcruiser]

If you booked airfare and hotel through the cruise line you will get a refund or FCC.    If you booked the air, you typically get the change fee.   If you booked the hotel then you have to cancel with them.   I make sure I book hotels that I am able to cancel without a fee.   Most allow you to cancel at least 48 hrs in advance.   

[ipeeinthepool]

I guess we'll have to wait and see what reduced capacity means for cruise ships.    Reduced capacity means fewer people for about every other venue on the planet, it seems reasonable that this will also apply to cruise ships.

[Threedrones]

12 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

I guess we'll have to wait and see what reduced capacity means for cruise ships.    Reduced capacity means fewer people for about every other venue on the planet, it seems reasonable that this will also apply to cruise ships.

Once again, where in the interview does Fain say ships will sail at reduced capacity? 

[Threedrones]

10 minutes ago, Threedrones said:

Once again, where in the interview does Fain say ships will sail at reduced capacity? 

OK, I finally saw the tape. Fain does say his “guess” is they might sail at reduced capacity. He never says, or even hints at, 50%. He further admits that things might change as more info comes out with results from opening up the country. My bad.

[phoenix_dream]

19 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Yep.

People cannot follow the most basic of guidelines.  Like washing your hands after using the toilet.  Using the sanitizer when entering a dining facility.

If they did follow basic hygiene, there would never be a Norovirus outbreak.  The fact that there have been on probably 25% of our cruises tells the story.  People are just slobs, frankly.  Bad enough when you get stomach problems for 48 hours.  Way worse when you consider the effects of this disease.

I agree many people are just slobs or inconsiderate.  But your belief that if everyone followed the guidelines there would never be a Norovirus outbreak is totally unreasonable if you know anything about the sickness.  For one thing, it is extremely contagious - I don't know the scientific terms but you can catch it from contact with one tiny virus particle.  You can spread it before you even know you are sick.  If someone comes down with it (and we all know this virus can hit you unexpectedly and quickly) and you happen to be in the same restroom with them or shortly after they left, you can catch it from the particles in the air.  Did you also know that the CDC states that people can still be shedding the virus up to 14 days after coming down with the sickness?  No ship is going to start quarantining people for norovirus for 14 days!  Yes, it certainly would help a lot if everyone washed their hands diligently, reported and quarantined when they got sick, and so on.  But no norovirus ever if everyone followed the good hygiene rules?  Nope, would never be the case.

[ECCruise]

19 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I agree many people are just slobs or inconsiderate.  But your belief that if everyone followed the guidelines there would never be a Norovirus outbreak is totally unreasonable if you know anything about the sickness.  For one thing, it is extremely contagious - I don't know the scientific terms but you can catch it from contact with one tiny virus particle.  You can spread it before you even know you are sick.  If someone comes down with it (and we all know this virus can hit you unexpectedly and quickly) and you happen to be in the same restroom with them or shortly after they left, you can catch it from the particles in the air.  Did you also know that the CDC states that people can still be shedding the virus up to 14 days after coming down with the sickness?  No ship is going to start quarantining people for norovirus for 14 days!  Yes, it certainly would help a lot if everyone washed their hands diligently, reported and quarantined when they got sick, and so on.  But no norovirus ever if everyone followed the good hygiene rules?  Nope, would never be the case.

Nevertheless, Noro is nothing like COVID. One is uncomfortable and the other is debilitating and could be fatal.  That was my point and was meant to highlight the poor hygiene we've always seen on ships.

 

I will, however, admit to being a little zealous with "never" in regard to norovirus.  Would rephrase to "almost never."

No definitive scientific studies on airborne transmission with the exception of proximity to vomit so I don't buy the restroom bit.

The CDC is very specific (maybe too graphically but truthful) on transmission, to wit:

You can get norovirus by accidentally getting tiny particles of poop or vomit from an infected person in your mouth.

This can happen if you

• eat food or drink liquids that are contaminated with norovirus,
• touch surfaces or objects contaminated with norovirus then put your fingers in your mouth, or
• have direct contact with someone who is infected with norovirus, such as by caring for them or sharing food or eating utensils with them.

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

If someone comes down with it (and we all know this virus can hit you unexpectedly and quickly) and you happen to be in the same restroom with them or shortly after they left, you can catch it from the particles in the air. 

According to the CDC [https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/transmission.html], the only scenario that would result in transmission of Norovirus via particles in the air would be if someone was to vomit and you got some of the vomit in your mouth and swallowed it:

 

• Aerosolized vomit lands on surfaces or enters a person’s mouth then he or she swallows it

 

31 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

But no norovirus ever if everyone followed the good hygiene rules?  Nope, would never be the case.

True, not because it's not theoretically possible but because you will never find a cruise where everyone followed all of the rules all of the time.

[Chip and Dale]

On 5/23/2020 at 6:57 AM, jojo1966 said:

genuine question - do people really think that you can catch the virus just  by walking past someone in the space of 2 seconds?????

The answer is that it is possible. If there are respiratory droplets and they are inhaled or get into the eyes. If they land on something that someone touches and later that same person touches their face also possible. 
 

This is a dangerous unpredictable virus. The medical professionals and scientists are learning more daily.

 

It may not impact the majority of people, however, you can unwittingly  bring it home to someone that it does impact. 

[Ron Don]

On 5/22/2020 at 5:55 PM, ipeeinthepool said:

Or maybe Galveston for RCL ships?  Do that many people really drive to Galveston?

We live in the Dallas area and have traveled from Galveston 5-6 times and always drive.  We have met people from Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Colorado, Arkansas and Mississippi that have also driven to Galveston.  Galveston has about 10 privately owned parking lots plus 3 fairly large port parking lots (owned by the city) with a good guess that parking close to the port to be around 5-7K vehicles.  Then there are the hotels that have deals that allow parking at their facility if you stay with them prior the cruise or after the cruise, sometimes for a fee and sometimes included in the hotel rate.  

 

Flying into Galveston has it's own special efforts as well as the only two airports are at least an hours drive to 2 hours drive away with limited auto rental facilities.  Shuttle facilities and limos are available but for a fee that can be expensive.

 

My point is, so why not drive?  We always do but, this is just one persons opinion.

[downsmead]

The issue is that it depends on who that person is. We know the elderly / people with underlying medical conditions and BAME people are more vulnerable. Like many viruses, people are often contagious before they start displaying symptoms, and the antigen test (if the cruise companies go as far as testing) may not be sufficiently sensitive to detect it.

[Lastdance]

19 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

The cruise lines may not care about towels and loungers, but they are petrified over their shaky financial condition.   They are fighting to hang on until sailing resumes and cannot afford any possibility of new onboard outbreaks triggering a second shutdown.  Therefore expect them to vigorously enforce whatever health related rules they come up with.  

 Well of course that is what I would expect, but it is impossible for crew members to be everywhere.  If the ship was full of those of us who comply, there would not be an issue.  Furthermore, of course the cruise lines are going to do everything possible...and so am I!  It takes the effort of all of us and I totally want them to thrive once again, but a lot will depend on those of us who cruise to do our part too...

[Lastdance]

19 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

The cruise lines may not care about towels and loungers, but they are petrified over their shaky financial condition.   They are fighting to hang on until sailing resumes and cannot afford any possibility of new onboard outbreaks triggering a second shutdown.  Therefore expect them to vigorously enforce whatever health related rules they come up with.  

 Well of course that is what I would expect, but it is impossible for crew members to be everywhere.  If the ship was full of those of us who comply, there would not be a big issue.   Furthermore, of course the cruise lines are going to do everything possible...and so am I!  It takes the effort of all of us and I totally want them to thrive once again, but a lot will depend on those of us who cruise to do our part too...maybe they will create a pictorial view of those who got caught doing something they should not have done. (Just kidding)  Passengers will also help with this because they want to cruise...we all have a lot at stake, but there will still be trial and error, as cruise lines strive for the safest environment possible.  The first cruisers with be a monitor and adjust type of situation.  It will be interesting to hear about consequences of actions...

[Lastdance]

19 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

The cruise lines may not care about towels and loungers, but they are petrified over their shaky financial condition.   They are fighting to hang on until sailing resumes and cannot afford any possibility of new onboard outbreaks triggering a second shutdown.  Therefore expect them to vigorously enforce whatever health related rules they come up with.  

 Well of course that is what I would expect, but it is impossible for crew members to be everywhere.  If the ship was full of those of us who comply, there would not be a big issue.   Furthermore, of course the cruise lines are going to do everything possible...and so am I!  It takes the effort of all of us and I totally want them to thrive once again, but a lot will depend on those of us who cruise to do our part too...maybe they will create a pictorial view of those who got caught doing something they should not have done. (Just kidding)  Passengers will also help with this because they want to cruise...we all have a lot at stake, but there will still be trial and error, as cruise lines strive for the safest environment possible.  The first cruisers will be a monitor and adjust type of situation, with enforcements.  It will be interesting to hear about consequences of actions and progress...I am hoping for the best!

[phoenix_dream]

5 hours ago, downsmead said:

The issue is that it depends on who that person is. We know the elderly / people with underlying medical conditions and BAME people are more vulnerable. Like many viruses, people are often contagious before they start displaying symptoms, and the antigen test (if the cruise companies go as far as testing) may not be sufficiently sensitive to detect it.

There is a difference between being vulnerable to complications to the disease versus vulnerable to catching it in the first place.  Some of the medical conditions "vulnerable" people may have may not make them more susceptible to catching the disease, but may make them more likely to have more serious or fatal reactions.  Examples of the latter may be people with high blood pressure or heart disease.  They don't necessarily have worse immune systems but have greater challenges if they do become sick.  For others, such as the elderly, a lessened immune system may result in their catching the virus in the first place more easily in addition to more trouble fighting it once they have it.

[phoenix_dream]

6 hours ago, Fouremco said:

According to the CDC [https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/transmission.html], the only scenario that would result in transmission of Norovirus via particles in the air would be if someone was to vomit and you got some of the vomit in your mouth and swallowed it:

 

• Aerosolized vomit lands on surfaces or enters a person’s mouth then he or she swallows it

 

True, not because it's not theoretically possible but because you will never find a cruise where everyone followed all of the rules all of the time.

Who am I to argue with the CDC.  But realistically, all I need to do is look at what happens at home.   When one of our family comes down/up with norovirus (or similar stomach virus), I do everything "right" - stay away from them (separate rooms), use separate bathrooms, wash my hands all the time, etc.., etc..  And yet what happens - chances are I come down with it anyway most of the time.  That is my main point - even if you do everything 'perfect' this virus is very contagious and there is no way you can prevent it from spreading 100% of the time no matter what you do.  So to say it is theoretically possible?  Call me a skeptic on that one, but as you say it doesn't matter because it will never happen that everyone follows all the rules.

[C-Dragons]

Another article with Richard Fain from Travel Weekly:

 

Royal Caribbean's Fain on cruising's future: 'It will evolve'

By Johanna Jainchill 

|

May 21, 2020

There has been endless speculation about what cruising will be like when ships set sail once again. Will they have buffets? Fewer passengers? Pool-deck dance parties?

Cruise lines have hinted in recent weeks about a few of the changes that can certainly be expected, and they have promised that more protocols and processes are being discussed.

But in Royal Caribbean International's senior vice president of sales Vicki Freed's weekly Coffee Chat with travel advisors, her guest, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. CEO Richard Fain, used the example of the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks to make the point that while cruising will change, what makes cruising fundamentally what it is will not.

 

"People think this will morph into something that is very different," he told advisors. "I don't see it that way.

"Cruise travel has evolved, I'm happy to say, and I think Royal has been in the lead in having the cruise experience evolve," he continued. "So cruising two months ago was very different than it was two years ago or five years ago. We had been enhancing the product, and continuous improvement is in our blood."

And yes, he said, things will be different -- such as buffets. "The idea that you'll go into a buffet that everyone reaches in and touches the same tongs, I think it's very likely you're not going to see that on land or at sea. But it doesn't mean that you don't have a buffet. You might have it where all of that is served to you by other people.

"The point is, it will evolve."

And here's where 9/11 comes in. 

"After 9/11, all of a sudden you had to do strip searches at the airport, you couldn't take a bottle of water on the plane, our whole world was changing," he said. "People said, 'nobody will ever fly if they have to take off their shoes, their belt and everything else.' And other people looked back and said, 'you had 9/11 but nothing changed. We were are all back flying again.'" 

Fain contended that both views were wrong. "Airplane travel didn't end. In fact, it grew. But it evolved, and it isn't the same. You do go through security and identification checks and frankly, we've become accustomed to it and the technology has helped make that easier.

"I think the same thing will happen on the cruise ships," he said. "It won't be exactly as it was before." He specifically mentioned Royal's Excalibur touchless systems that will enable passengers to sign for bills without contact. 

Fain made a similar point to Wall Street analysts during the line's first quarter earnings call, where he applied it to the travel industry at large. 

"In a post-Covid-19 world, travel and tourism will grow, but not by reverting to what it was, but by adjusting to a world where all activities, everything we do in the world, will have changed," he said. "Our industry is resilient, and we will come back strong. We'll do so not by mimicking what we used to do but by innovating our product to meeting the exciting demands of the world as it is."

[marieps]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:15 PM, Baron Barracuda said:

Expect to have no problem social distancing.  If they bump all the cheap cabins Luminae and Blu will be at full capacity each night, a bunch will head off to specialties and I'll have MDR all to myself.

I have to wonder whether, because the two-tops are SO close together, AQ rooms will be limited in order to respace the Blu tables.   I hope not as I have AQ booked in Nov and June 2021.  I don't think the latter would be considered an early cruise, but Nov. certainly may be.

[Chrisclaire]

On 5/23/2020 at 9:29 PM, Bill Miller said:

What, Me worry?

I volunteer to sail as soon as the cruise lines are ready. I choose not to live in fear. 

(Oh boy, I'm sure I'll be in trouble after this post.)

😆😆😆😆

[laslomas]

On 5/25/2020 at 2:15 PM, Threedrones said:

OK, I finally saw the tape. Fain does say his “guess” is they might sail at reduced capacity. He never says, or even hints at, 50%. He further admits that things might change as more info comes out with results from opening up the country. My bad.

 

The "guess" that ships might sail at reduced capacity may be simply  because so many have already cancelled or moved their cruise to a later date so capacity is reduced in that way, not by Celebrity putting measures in place.