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Social Distancing during Embarkation

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4 minutes ago, pris993 said:

I saw this on one of the TV stations, a doctor on the front lines of treating folks in NYC was invited on to share info, this was just this past week.  Don't recall who it was.  He as speaking to the general public not health care workers.    Health care workers obviously have to use more precautions.   

Google can frequently be your friend.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, clo said:

Google can frequently be your friend.

yes, I do use google when I have a question... did not see a need to question what the doctor was saying... fit with what I believe....

 

Edited by pris993
left out word

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On 5/25/2020 at 9:55 AM, pris993 said:

Maybe they should allow seniors to board first, with an early time slot in the future.    Agree distancing would be hard to do.

After the uproar about the medical letter for passengers over 70, I think age will be kept out of it for awhile...LOL

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5 hours ago, clo said:

That's funny. I'd prefer that. Have a great lunch at a local restaurant and then board. Have a nap and go to dinner )

 

So you understand me but want to be able to choose that 4 pm time instead of 10 am!

 

I book a cruise because I want a cruise. When I want something else I book something else!

 

 

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count this senior among those who prefer to be one of the first to board.  Why?  DW and I treat that embarkation day like a sea day (we love sea days).  Once aboard (usually around noon) we can get some lunch, change into swim suits, and relax in a deck chair while enjoying our books and people watching.  

 

All this talk about social distancing on ships is just folly.  It is impossible to always social distance on mass market ships.  The design of ships makes this an impossibility.  Social distancing is somewhat possible on some of the ultra luxury vessels where there is a lot more space per passenger.  For example, when on the Seabourn Soujourn the deck loungers are spaced several feet apart and could be organized with 6 feet between groups (families).  The Lido and MDR are also spacious enough to allow social distancing for those that want to keep their distance.  But this would be impossible on mass market ships unless they were to sail with a drastically decreased passenger load which is not financially feasible.  Besides the decreased revenue from the cruise fare (with less then a full ship) the mass market companies depend on "maximizing onboard revenue" to generate sufficient revenue to make a profit.  A smaller load of passengers translates into less onboard revenue and financial disaster.

 

Hank

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On 5/25/2020 at 10:22 AM, 2wheelin said:

There are many idiots out there and the title doctor does not exclude them all. I received a FB message from a friend in Bulgaria quoting an immunologist there who said “sanitizing is for cockroaches and bacteria. Virus (apparently including Noro?) is spread only by human contact”. And their country believe him!

So I guess no one ever got noro or any other virus from handrails or the buffet!

 

Yes, that is true.

 

However, you second part is belayed by the numbers.  Bulgaria has one of the lowest per capita case and death rates of reasonable sized developed countries.

 

93rd, with 351 cases per million population. 

 

US is 12th at 5,164 cases per million.

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1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Yes, that is true.

 

However, you second part is belayed by the numbers.  Bulgaria has one of the lowest per capita case and death rates of reasonable sized developed countries.

 

93rd, with 351 cases per million population. 

 

US is 12th at 5,164 cases per million.

 

The number of cases is confirmed cases so more tested give more cases. If a country should decide not to test anyone the number of cases should be zero!    

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3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Yes, that is true.

 

However, you second part is belayed by the numbers.  Bulgaria has one of the lowest per capita case and death rates of reasonable sized developed countries.

 

93rd, with 351 cases per million population. 

 

US is 12th at 5,164 cases per million.

I wonder if Bulgaria has counted 2 of the 'kids' I worked with.  They live in England and have 2 kids of their own now, 5 and 2,  and they are in their early 30s.  They took the family on a ski holiday to Bulgaria (yes, Bulgaria has some fun ski areas) in early March.  The 2 of them came down with COVID-19.  Bulgaria got them on a plane QUICK back to the UK (they wore masks the whole way).  Went to the NHS near them and got the verification and chest X-rays.  Quarantined with the kiddos.  Dad was nasty sick, Mom not as much.  

 

Seeing how cruise lines have yet been able to contain any outbreaks of anything on a ship, they are going to need some SERIOUS upgrading of sanitary and distancing to convince me to cruise.   I've had noro (from a luxury hotel, not  ship), and I do not want to go through that again!!!  Add in COVID-19 and I may just stick to lone camping for awhile!!!

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On 5/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, pris993 said:

I was listening to a doctor last night who treats virus patients... he basically said if you wash your hands and don't touch your face you will not get the virus, so social distancing to the extent required now may be less of an issue.  I know when I am out doing errands no always possible to be completely at 6' distance, pass some folks... would guess the same issue will be for boarding an airplane.    We will see.

I wonder if this is the same report I heard. Fox News, Jessie Watters. There was a date on the upper left screen showing an early March date, which made me question if that's when that interview was done. That may have been the thinking then, but just within the past few days it's been reported that the virus isn't picked up by touching an infected surface but is airborne, so totally opposite of what that doctor said.

 

If the early March date is correct, hand washing/hands off the face would make sense, but not with the most recent information.

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25 minutes ago, mammajamma2013 said:

I wonder if this is the same report I heard. Fox News, Jessie Watters. There was a date on the upper left screen showing an early March date, which made me question if that's when that interview was done. That may have been the thinking then, but just within the past few days it's been reported that the virus isn't picked up by touching an infected surface but is airborne, so totally opposite of what that doctor said.

 

If the early March date is correct, hand washing/hands off the face would make sense, but not with the most recent information.

could be, this situation is a moving target... info keeps changing, even Fauci is changing his mind.  

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Just now, pris993 said:

could be, this situation is a moving target... info keeps changing, even Fauci is changing his mind.  

But if "this situation is a moving target" and the report is from early March, I wouldn't go by that information. And in my opinion, Dr. Fauci isn't "changing his mind", the information available is changing and he's going by that updated information.

 

Certainly wash your hand often, don't touch your face, but social distancing, mask wearing, and sheltering in place when possible is also necessary, in my opinion.

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29 minutes ago, mammajamma2013 said:

But if "this situation is a moving target" and the report is from early March, I wouldn't go by that information. And in my opinion, Dr. Fauci isn't "changing his mind", the information available is changing and he's going by that updated information.

 

Certainly wash your hand often, don't touch your face, but social distancing, mask wearing, and sheltering in place when possible is also necessary, in my opinion.

Agree, Dr. Fauci is probably clarifying.   When I say a moving target, beginning in Feb... til now much info has changed .   I was actually on the Grand Princess in Feb watching Fox ... at that time reports were nothing more than the common flu from CDC, I do not recall if Dr Fauci was involved then.   We all stay tuned.  

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For those of you who haven't managed large emergencies, even small ones...they evolve. Targets move. Goals change. Rarely do things remain consistent and absolutely predictable throughout. To think otherwise is not understanding the dynamics of Mother Nature and other factors.

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3 hours ago, mammajamma2013 said:

Dr. Fauci isn't "changing his mind", the information available is changing and he's going by that updated information.

YES! People who say that need to open their minds, read data for about an hour a day and stop making statements like that. Try looking at his resume'. He's the real deal. Thanks, mj.

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18 hours ago, clo said:

YES! People who say that need to open their minds, read data for about an hour a day and stop making statements like that. Try looking at his resume'. He's the real deal. Thanks, mj.

Dr.Fauci grew up in Brooklyn,NY .If he is ever removed from his position he will be hired by either the Governor of NY or NJ .He is brilliant.

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4 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

Dr.Fauci grew up in Brooklyn,NY .If he is ever removed from his position he will be hired by either the Governor of NY or NJ .He is brilliant.

I can't remember who he reports to but it's not trump. So he would have to order someone to fire him.  Wonder what the reaction will be if/when he gets Time's Person of the Year 🙂 

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9 minutes ago, clo said:

I can't remember who he reports to but it's not trump. So he would have to order someone to fire him.  Wonder what the reaction will be if/when he gets Time's Person of the Year 🙂 

He reports to Dr. Francis Collins,Director Of the National Institute  Of Health.He reports to President Trump.

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On 5/27/2020 at 1:48 PM, sverigecruiser said:

 

The number of cases is confirmed cases so more tested give more cases. If a country should decide not to test anyone the number of cases should be zero!    

 

Wrong, cases are counted based on symptoms also.  Not just testing.

 

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1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

Wrong, cases are counted based on symptoms also.  Not just testing.

 

 

Then that is another thing that is different in Sweden. The number of cases reported here are cases confirmed from laboratories. Not guesses based on different symptoms. 

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Posted (edited)

Hey folks, this is a new presence on the global playground, remember. No where near fully understood as to all pertinent characteristics, it presents just as confusing to a 30 year medical veteran as it does to a recent med school grad. Probably going to be differences of opinion, perhaps even a mis-speak or two. Of course, that brings out all the layman expert wannabes, anxious to do a little bashing while expounding their true meaning of a C19 era lifestyle. That's okay, as long as they realize that if the skilled players in the game are having trouble, we non-skilled participants are really looking witless.

 

These cruising forums are good platforms for commentary, opinion and recommendation. In certain instances, such as Corona V, we do best when we say less. After all, we don't know anything. No need to act like we do. 

 

    

Edited by Spif Barwunkel

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6 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Then that is another thing that is different in Sweden. The number of cases reported here are cases confirmed from laboratories. Not guesses based on different symptoms. 

Which is another factor in making it difficult to compare Sweden's results with those of other countries.

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On 5/28/2020 at 3:52 PM, lenquixote66 said:

He reports to Dr. Francis Collins,Director Of the National Institute  Of Health.He reports to President Trump.

 

Correct. Both Collins and Fauci are exemplary in what they do, the perfect people for the positions they are in at this time.

 

Here's what Fauci's boss recently had to say about him: 

 

Collins: Tony is a complete model of what you want to see in a public servant. He is dedicated, he’s incredibly smart and knowledgeable. He is both a fantastic scientist and a very experienced physician who personally took care of Ebola patients when we had them in our hospital just four or five years ago.

 

And he is incapable of actually doing anything except speaking truth. He has a lot of truth to offer, and he speaks it in a careful, diplomatic way. He’s also not somebody who will slip into demonizing anybody, or throwing mud back at people who are throwing mud at him, he’s just gonna be what you want to have in the room when an important decision is being made, who can tell you: Here are the facts, here are the consequences if you do A or you do B.

 

I consider it a great privilege indeed to have him as a friend, as a colleague, as a remarkable leader of infectious disease at NIH, probably the most highly respected infectious disease researcher in the world.

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/21/francis-collins-q-and-a/

 

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Just some more thoughts about social distancing on ships.  For many years DW and I have followed a "contrarian" schedule on most cruises.  To be very honest I strongly dislike waiting in queues (lines) and follow a personal strategy to minimize/avoid lines.  I have often posted my puzzlement as to why some folks seem to love waiting in lines and actually seek out lines wherever they form.  For example, you will see folks crowd into a queue while waiting for the MDR to open (we simply don't go to the MDR until the line is gone.  We see folks forming a long line on Princess ships when they have a "sale" of mostly junk (i.e. cheap sweatshirts, t-shirts, etc) in one of the MDRs.  But one can wait a half hour and just walk into that sale (there is usually enough junk to serve the late arrivals).  When we see a long line for just about anything we will simply go someplace else to relax until the line is mitigated.    Another issue (for us) are the elevators which are usually crowded.  We try to avoid elevators unless it is absolutely necessary.  If its a matter of walking down a few floors or up a few floors we use the steps (good exercise, no waiting for crowded elevators, and avoiding being trapped in a small chamber with lots of other folks).  Not everyone is healthy enough to use the steps, but there are certainly many who can do it but are just too darn lazy.   And this leaves more space for those who truly need to use elevators.

 

Embarkation is a problem.  We assume that some cruise lines will enforce a policy of staggered arrival/boarding times.  It is already recommended by some lines, but seldom enforced.  So, for example, if they tell you to arrive at the port between 2 and 3 that is when you will need to arrive if you want to embark.  Otherwise you will be left outside the port building, cooling your heels, until the specified time.

 

Hank

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Posted (edited)

Social distancing during embarkation would be the least of our worries when considering a cruise.   Our concerns would be from embarkation to disembarkation and everything in between.    

 

I have no doubt that the cruise lines either could not or would not enforce social distancing this in any reasonable way throughout the cruise.   

 

The last thing we want is to be on a ship mid voyage that is reporting instances those euphemistic 'flu like symptoms' among it's passengers.

Edited by iancal

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26 minutes ago, iancal said:

Social distancing during embarkation would be the least of our worries when considering a cruise.   Our concerns would be from embarkation to disembarkation and everything in between.    

 

I have no doubt that the cruise lines either could not or would not enforce social distancing this in any reasonable way throughout the cruise.   

 

The last thing we want is to be on a ship mid voyage that is reporting instances those euphemistic 'flu like symptoms' among it's passengers.

 

I agree.  Cruise lines can strictly enforce embarkation and disembarking procedures.  They can even reduce passenger count by 50%.  Can spread chairs around in all the public areas.  But how do they control the flow of passengers throughout the ship?  How do you socially distance passengers leaving their cabins and having to walk through those long, narrow, low-ceiling hallways where two people cannot pass each other without one turning sideways?

 

Cruise ships are enclosed environments with lots of people who remain there for long periods of time.  This is the very environment that encourages the spread of any virus.

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