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Crystal Refund Roll Call


SusieQft
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I got tired of waiting so rather than pay more cash for my Bahamas cruise, used that money owed for the final payment.   Took time for one hand of Crystal to find it and deliver it to the other side of Crystal.

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Good Morning,

 

After a phone call to cancel an upcoming cruise since I hadn't received my refund yet, the Crystal Agent had me give them all the digits to my credit card and talked to his boss about my refund. Well a week later my deposit money was finally returned to me. I am line 66 on the deposit only spreadsheet and it took 290 days to get my refund. 

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Posted (edited)

Yipee ! I received my deposit refund June 9 for an  April 2021 river cruise, that I cancelled last November. A seven month wait.   Happy to have it ! 

Edited by Boatdrill
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/4/2021 at 4:49 PM, Sdancer said:

If it not the Chase bank, you have a good chance to get your refund back and even file a dispute on a canceled credit card. Do not wait, call or go on-line to check your credit card balance. If you have a credit balance, request a check to be mailed to you.

If you have checking or savings account with this bank, ask your refund to be transferred there.

 

If it is the JPMorgan Chase Bank credit card and you do not have any other accounts with the Chase, then call Chase right away or go online to check if your account is still in their system. 

Chase Bank erases cancelled credit card accounts with zero balance just 3 months after you cancel.

After that it would be very difficult to get your money from Chase.

 

PayPal has sent my refund to my canceled United Explorer Card by Chase Bank (I have a paper trail from PayPal) but Chase has refused to give it to me claiming that they cannot find me in the system.

After going through 4 months of complaints to Consumer Finance agency, I finally filed a case in Small Claims Court. It is scheduled for June and I am looking forward to it! :). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is the Update:

Today was my Small Claims Court day. I was suing the JP Morgan Chase bank. The Chase bank received my deposit refund but refused to give it to me. Well, I won, as was expected.

Too bad that I cannot get back the 4 aggravating months - I should have taken them to court much sooner.

 

Now the Chase Bank must send me my refund check in the next 30 days. 

The judge also ordered the Chase bank to reimburse me for a court filing fee and a sheriff's fee (serving papers on the Chase Bank agent for process).

 

No more United Airline mileage credit card by Chase for me :).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Sdancer said:

Here is the Update:

Today was my Small Claims Court day. I was suing the JP Morgan Chase bank. The Chase bank received my deposit refund but refused to give it to me. Well, I won, as was expected.

Too bad that I cannot get back the 4 aggravating months - I should have taken them to court much sooner.

 

Now the Chase Bank must send me my refund check in the next 30 days. 

The judge also ordered the Chase bank to reimburse me for a court filing fee and a sheriff's fee (serving papers on the Chase Bank agent for process).

 

No more United Airline mileage credit card by Chase for me :).

 

Just out of curiosity, on what basis was Chase holding the refund?  They have every right to hold it for a few weeks or a month to investigate it and such, but I think that's more extreme than anything I've heard before.

 

Vince

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

Just out of curiosity, on what basis was Chase holding the refund?  They have every right to hold it for a few weeks or a month to investigate it and such, but I think that's more extreme than anything I've heard before.

 

Vince

The Chase erased my credit card from their system 3 months after I canceled my United Explorer credit card which made it impossible for me to file a dispute.

After I have complained to CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau), Chase filed a dispute on my behalf on January 20th, ruled in my favor on February 13th, got a refund from PayPal on February 13th.

Then Chase falsely claimed for 4 months that Chase sent a refund to PayPal on January 20th and I have to get this refund from PayPal.

 

I knew that Chase was lying:

1. No bank would send a refund anywhere before the dispute was decided in my favor. 

2. If Chase would send my refund to PayPal, it would result in a credit transaction in my account according to PayPal but it was not. 

3. The crucial point in my case was that PayPal sent me a message confirming that PayPal sent a refund for me to Chase on February 13th, the same day that Chase ruled in my favor, and NEVER got any money from Chase. Since Chase filed a dispute, not PayPal, then is was Chase's responsibility to give me a refund according to the rules. 

 

Banks like to say that "a penny saved is a penny earned".

It looks like Chase took it too far :).

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sdancer
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3 minutes ago, Sdancer said:

The Chase erased my credit card from their system 3 months after I canceled my United Explorer credit card which made it impossible for me to file a dispute.

After I have complained to CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau), Chase filed a dispute on my behalf on January 20th, ruled in my favor on February 13th, got a refund from PayPal on February 13th.

Then Chase falsely claimed that Chase sent a refund to PayPal on January 20th and I have to get this refund from PayPal.

 

I knew that Chase was lying:

1. No bank would send a refund anywhere before the dispute was decided in my favor. 

2. If Chase would send my refund to PayPal, it would result in a credit transaction in my account according to PayPal but it was not. 

3. The crucial point in my case was that PayPal sent me a message confirming that PayPal sent a refund for me to Chase on February 13th, the same date that Chase ruled in my favor, and NEVER got any money from Chase. Since Chase filed a dispute, not PayPal, then is was Chase's responsibility to give me a refund according to the rules. 

 

Wow, what a headache!  I've had some shady encounters with Chase before, but that is definitely more extreme.  There is a lot of "we did our part" when it comes to financial processing in general, but fortunately the gateways all mark every transaction with an ID that can be seen from both sides.  When one company claims they did something, the first thing I do is get that ID and take it to the other company and see what they see for that ID.  In fairness, it's probably 50/50 on which side the blame falls, but the only way to get to the bottom of it sometimes is to use the one common variable that spans all the different systems.  The big problem, and to a degree what the banks hide behind, is the fact that customers and customer service agents can usually only see the transaction IDs for their company's system that get created when their bank receives the transaction, which is meaningless to the other parties.  Getting the gateway ID's sometimes requires escalation for the issuing back to receive the ID, and  then escalation with the receiving bank to research the ID's history on their end.

 

Glad you finally got your money though!

 

Vince

 

 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

Wow, what a headache!  I've had some shady encounters with Chase before, but that is definitely more extreme.  There is a lot of "we did our part" when it comes to financial processing in general, but fortunately the gateways all mark every transaction with an ID that can be seen from both sides.  When one company claims they did something, the first thing I do is get that ID and take it to the other company and see what they see for that ID.  In fairness, it's probably 50/50 on which side the blame falls, but the only way to get to the bottom of it sometimes is to use the one common variable that spans all the different systems.  The big problem, and to a degree what the banks hide behind, is the fact that customers and customer service agents can usually only see the transaction IDs for their company's system that get created when their bank receives the transaction, which is meaningless to the other parties.  Getting the gateway ID's sometimes requires escalation for the issuing back to receive the ID, and  then escalation with the receiving bank to research the ID's history on their end.

 

Glad you finally got your money though!

 

Vince

 

 

Vince,

 

Thanks for the valuable gateway ID tip! 

 

I have one more "surprise by Chase" to tell you about: Chase offered me to settle before the court but I would have to sign an IRS form which Chase would report to IRS as my income.

It was my understanding from the form description on the IRS website if I understood it correctly and I believe that I did.

Then I would have to pay income tax on the refund (earned income).

Would it then make it a business expense for Chase to write it off ?

 

One more thing:

Chase did not let me know that the dispute was ruled in my favor.

I found it out from PayPal - Chase had to let PayPal know in order to collect the refund from PayPal.

 

 

Edited by Sdancer
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Unless things are different with Chase, or perhaps things have changed, but it was my understanding that the credit card companies typically keep the account in some sort of an inactive state when we cancel a credit card.  I didn’t know this until I experienced something strange a few years ago: I received a paper bill for an American Express card for purchases I did not make on a card that has been cancelled for many years.  This was obviously a fraudulent (a purchase supposedly made in a Hong Kong hotel gift shop for a few thousand USD while I was just living my life here in the US) charge, American Express actually allowed this charge to go through.  I called American Express and spoke with their “fraud specialist” who told me that accounts can be charged, possibly indefinitely, after the account is “closed.”  I asked him if the system can tell when a retail transaction is being made to a closed account to detect a fraud like this, and he said American Express “was currently working on it.”  LOL.  I filed a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau about this and was told that this account was finally closed “as a goodwill gesture (LOL!!!)” by American Express.

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By the way, my refunds were processed a few weeks after I informed my TA and his Crystal rep that I was seriously thinking about taking a legal action to recover what Crystal owed me.  I cannot say this was cause-and-effect, but it is something to think about for those who are still being shorted by Crystal.

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There's a few moving parts to the way refunds are handled...

 

First, for security purposes merchants these days are required to refund the original form of payment regardless of the status of the account, UNLESS declined or instructed otherwise by the customer's card issuer.

 

Until recently, refunds were run without authorization, so they would essentially land on a closed account automatically (while charges should decline on a properly closed account because a charge requires auth).  Now that refunds are starting to be processed in a similar way to charges, we're starting to see more declines on refunds, which can then be paid out by check by the merchant.  For the most part though, banks are still taking the refund transactions for closed accounts and processing them back to the former cardholders on their end.

 

I haven't seem any rhyme or reason to which bank has which policy though -- it seems pretty dependent on circumstances with the individual cardholder.

 

Vince

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Psoque said:

Unless things are different with Chase, or perhaps things have changed, but it was my understanding that the credit card companies typically keep the account in some sort of an inactive state when we cancel a credit card.  I didn’t know this until I experienced something strange a few years ago: I received a paper bill for an American Express card for purchases I did not make on a card that has been cancelled for many years.  This was obviously a fraudulent (a purchase supposedly made in a Hong Kong hotel gift shop for a few thousand USD while I was just living my life here in the US) charge, American Express actually allowed this charge to go through.  I called American Express and spoke with their “fraud specialist” who told me that accounts can be charged, possibly indefinitely, after the account is “closed.”  I asked him if the system can tell when a retail transaction is being made to a closed account to detect a fraud like this, and he said American Express “was currently working on it.”  LOL.  I filed a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau about this and was told that this account was finally closed “as a goodwill gesture (LOL!!!)” by American Express.

Interesting info about AMEX! 

About the Chase bank MO:

United Airline Mileage Plus credit cards are erased for closed accounts with a zero balance 3-4 months later. Chase admitted that it saves them money (no expense to maintain closed accounts) and frees up space for new accounts.

United Airlines bases the time eligibility for bonus miles on a new card as follows - 2 years since the last bonus miles were paid on a previous card, not 2 years since a previous card was canceled like other airlines (like American Airlines). Thus, Chase does not need to store MileagePlus closed accounts.

 

In case anyone needs statements from their Chase closed account (or other not-record-keeping banks or financial institutions):   

First, I filed a complaint with Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) to force Chase to contact me because phone calls to Chase would not go through on erased accounts.

Chase Executive Office employee contacted me on the phone to tell me that there were no statements available. 

When I mentioned IRS rules and told this employee to find it, my statements were magically found and promptly mailed to me in the UPS Express envelope :).

Chase keeps a separate database with all the statements from the closed accounts (I believe for 7 years as required per IRS). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sdancer
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13 minutes ago, Sdancer said:

Interesting info about AMEX! 

About the Chase bank MO:

United Airline Mileage Plus credit cards are erased for closed accounts with a zero balance 3-4 months later. Chase admitted that it saves them money (no expense to maintain closed accounts) and frees up space for new accounts.

United Airlines bases the time eligibility for bonus miles on a new card as follows - 2 years since the last bonus miles were paid on a previous card, not 2 years since a previous card was canceled like other airlines (like American Airlines). Thus, Chase does not need to store MileagePlus closed accounts.

 

In case anyone needs statements from their Chase closed account (or other not-record-keeping banks or financial institutions):   

First, I filed a complaint with Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) to force Chase to contact me because phone calls to Chase would not go through on erased accounts.

Chase Executive Office employee contacted me on the phone to tell me that there were no statements available. 

When I mentioned IRS rules and told this employee to find it, my statements were magically found and promptly mailed to me in the UPS Express envelope :).

Chase keeps a separate database with all the statements from the closed accounts (I believe for 7 years as required per IRS). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe I am being cynical, but I am under the impression that credit card people say all kinds of lies on the phone to half-justify what they want to accomplish, especially when they mess up.  I am under the assumption that credit card companies can miraculously resurrect a closed account or tell you that the account is "completely erased from their system," depending on which scenario is more convenient to them.

 

In my case with the fraudulent charge on a closed account, it was easier for American Express to just "pass the buck" to me by sending me the bill instead of investigating it through the fraud department, hoping that I am stupid enough to just pay it without questioning it.  However, if for some reason there was a legitimate credit to me remaining on that account, I'm sure American Express would have told me that the account is totally inaccessible.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

After Crystal canceled our August 2021 9 day r/t London cruise, I called our credit card company Bank Of America and after giving them all required paperwork to prove that Crystal canceled our voyage and several follow up phone calls, I am happy to report that I received a letter from our CC that all monies

$3,649 (a deposit we had placed back in January of 2019 for a Panama Canal Cruise, which we then later changed to the r/t London cruise) is a permanent credit on our card.  Yheah!  

This would have been our first Crystal cruise, but after further research we have decided that Viking is more our style and that is who we will book our World cruise with in a few more years after the DH retires.

Edited by Diveloonie
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  • 2 weeks later...

I received my deposits from Crystal (two cabins) for Alaska 2022 which was booked before the pandemic. 

Our excellent TA company helped to cancel my cruise with $1,000 admin fees waived by Crystal - goods/services not as expected.  

 

I filed disputes with my credit card and two months later got permanent refunds.

 

 

 

 

 

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I am shocked, sad to say, but very pleasantly surprised to report that we had booked one of the July Bahamas cruises frankly in large part to not loose the $1,000 "admin fee" that was still outstanding with Crystal.  I learned from our TA that technically Crystal had since deleted it since I had not booked another cruise within a certain time frame, but that they would however reinstate if I booked something "shortly", but no indication nor commitment to a time frame.  So yes, I spent more money in order to not just hand over my $1,000.  Whatever.  There were some ugly bumps then which I have posted about under the July Bahamas sailings and won't rehash now. 

We had originally booked a Bimini departure and the pre cruise package which added another almost $2,000.  While we were only waitlisted for the pre cruise package our Credit Card was immediately charged for the package.  Through considerable hassles with Crystal over the next 10 days I was able to move my departure to a Nassau sailing as they were cancelling the Bimini stop early on.  Naturally moving the sailing to Nassau I I also requested the refund for the pre cruise package which they agreed to as well they should!  We figured we would have to notify the credit card company shortly to not pay for that amount figuring we wouldn't see it for quite some time.  I also planned to add my name back on this list.  We were stunned to see the refund posted to our cc account by Crystal a few days later.   So I do want to give them a hats off.  I am hoping they are learning and turning the corner, although given the experience I had with this booking I still think they need a massive redo of their land operations.  Far too much conflicting information being given by the people there and some completely nonsensical "decisions" being made or at least communicated by some of their reps causing much angst and anger.  

I hate to give up on Crystal, but do have some hurdles to get over.  Hopefully the Bahamas cruise will be a hit and thankfully thus far the reports from people currently onboard or just off the first sailing or two are very positive.  

  

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Still nothing here.  I filed a complaint with the BBB which Crystal did not respond to and also a complaint with the Florida Attorney General's office.  Still nothing.  My TA has tried to call them.  Was told we are to be in the next group of refunds.  We will see.  I have lost all patience.  

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well, about 2 minutes after posting the above, I received a message from Chase that my $3537 deposit had been refunded by Crystal.  Now waiting for the additional $6000 they owe me, but at least it is something.  BTW, also received my deposits today from Oceania for a cruise they cancelled--less than 60 days after they cancelled. 

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It sounds like Crystal is handling new refunds more expeditiously, which is wonderful news.  Hopefully they will be able to take care of the rest of the backlog soon as well.  I do look forward to the day when all of this is no longer relevant because the delays are a thing of the past

 

Meanwhile, I will continue to update the spreadsheet when new information is posted.  In order to add your information in a meaningful way I need a bare minimum the date of your request for a refund and the date of your refund if you have received it.  I have posted a few with my best guess based on approximate information, but I really prefer to avoid that.  It would be nice to also have the sailing date of your cruise that was cancelled, but I can approximate that because it is not needed to calculate the number of days to get the refund.  Otherwise I will read your post with interest but not add it to the spreadsheet.

 

Thank you to everyone for posting your refund experiences.

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50 minutes ago, wishIweretravelling said:

We cancelled  the 2022 world cruise (sail date Feb 2, 2022) and requested a refund of our deposit on June 15, 2021. No refund yet, of course.


What you mean it’s not happening 😉😷😩

 

Sorry we’re not going to get to sail together again - at this stage. We’ll wait for Crystal to cancel it then move the deposit $$$ to our plan B cruise that we have already decided on - but hopefully you don’t have to wait too long for your refund 

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