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Cruise line meeting with CDC is Today


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1 minute ago, Cruiseboy06 said:

hmm  CDC only controls the ships where they have a homeport and port of calls IN US.........

Quite right. Quite right. And I ONLY sail from homeports in the U.S. So for me, every other 'homeport' outside the U.S. is a moot point. And what foreign ports do you sail from? hmm...

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6 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

No, but it does appear that it controls our cruising world. The main reason I'm here. To enjoy the cruising experiences we all have, to discuss cruising matters, the places we've been and the places we look forward to cruising to. Until the cruise lines conform, or when the CDC changes their stance on our cruising world, we should hunker down because we are in it for the long haul.


best post of the thread.  🏆 

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21 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

No, but it does appear that it controls our cruising world. The main reason I'm here. To enjoy the cruising experiences we all have, to discuss cruising matters, the places we've been and the places we look forward to cruising to. Until the cruise lines conform, or when the CDC changes their stance on our cruising world, we should hunker down because we are in it for the long haul.

 

This could all be expedited if the public would follow simple guidelines and the government would provide the necessary resources. Without those, it will be a longer haul.

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5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

This could all be expedited if the public would follow simple guidelines and the government would provide the necessary resources. Without those, it will be a longer haul.

I quite agree. 

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46 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

No, but it does appear that it controls our cruising world. The main reason I'm here. To enjoy the cruising experiences we all have, to discuss cruising matters, the places we've been and the places we look forward to cruising to. Until the cruise lines conform, or when the CDC changes their stance on our cruising world, we should hunker down because we are in it for the long haul.

Well said.

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1 hour ago, Joe817 said:

No, but it does appear that it controls our cruising world. The main reason I'm here. To enjoy the cruising experiences we all have, to discuss cruising matters, the places we've been and the places we look forward to cruising to. Until the cruise lines conform, or when the CDC changes their stance on our cruising world, we should hunker down because we are in it for the long haul.

As an addendum, I firmly believe the CDC has been way less than cooperative in providing the guidance that the cruise lines desperately need to be in compliance with their edicts. How can the cruise lines start back up without firm instructions from CDC on what is required???  The CDC is putting the CLIA in an untenable condition to conform, because of the lack of directives.

 

I'm just a simple country boy, and with that said, I disavow having any knowledge, of any subject in the history of humankind, ever conceived on this planet, pertaining to anything humankind has ever dreamed up,  either in the past, the present or the future. There! How's that for a disclaimer? :classic_laugh:

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5 hours ago, Joe817 said:

How can the cruise lines start back up without firm instructions from CDC on what is required???

How much firmer could they possibly be, than the requirements laid out in the no sail order?  CDC has laid out the requirements very clearly and firmly.  Whether they are too onerous to make cruising financially possible is up for debate, and should have been addressed by cruise lines' analysis long before now.  It is not up to the CDC to determine how a cruise line meets the requirements, they are not business people, it is up to the cruise lines themselves to determine how best their company or industry can meet the requirements.

 

In my personal opinion, the cruise lines are waiting for the pandemic to slow down, and the CDC to relax many of the draconian measures set out in the no sail order, before they present their remediation plans.

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37 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

How much firmer could they possibly be, than the requirements laid out in the no sail order?  CDC has laid out the requirements very clearly and firmly.  Whether they are too onerous to make cruising financially possible is up for debate, and should have been addressed by cruise lines' analysis long before now.  It is not up to the CDC to determine how a cruise line meets the requirements, they are not business people, it is up to the cruise lines themselves to determine how best their company or industry can meet the requirements.

 

In my personal opinion, the cruise lines are waiting for the pandemic to slow down, and the CDC to relax many of the draconian measures set out in the no sail order, before they present their remediation plans.

As usual, I think you grasped the situation accurately.  As long as the CDC holds the huge hammer over the cruise industry, they are in deep Dudu.  

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8 hours ago, Joe817 said:

Quite right. Quite right. And I ONLY sail from homeports in the U.S. So for me, every other 'homeport' outside the U.S. is a moot point. And what foreign ports do you sail from? hmm...

Let's see. We have sailed from the port for Rome, Copenhagen. Barcelona twice, Dover for London, and if we had our cruise this year next month we would be sailing from Southampton for London.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

How much firmer could they possibly be, than the requirements laid out in the no sail order?  CDC has laid out the requirements very clearly and firmly.  Whether they are too onerous to make cruising financially possible is up for debate, and should have been addressed by cruise lines' analysis long before now.  It is not up to the CDC to determine how a cruise line meets the requirements, they are not business people, it is up to the cruise lines themselves to determine how best their company or industry can meet the requirements.

 

In my personal opinion, the cruise lines are waiting for the pandemic to slow down, and the CDC to relax many of the draconian measures set out in the no sail order, before they present their remediation plans.

If the pandemic does not slow down or even better stop, it's not only the cruise lines that are in big trouble. If and when that hopefully happens, we will see how much the CDC relaxes their requirements.

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2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

As usual, I think you grasped the situation accurately.  As long as the CDC holds the huge hammer over the cruise industry, they are in deep Dudu.  

As we stand today the CDC's bigger concern is what is happening in the United States.

They have again changed the projection of cases, and not on the positive side.

 

There is about 75-80% of states that are in the red zone, and I'm not talking political.

 

Travel industry will continue to take a hit and projections are the air industry will soon follow. 

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26 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

As we stand today the CDC's bigger concern is what is happening in the United States.

They have again changed the projection of cases, and not on the positive side.

 

There is about 75-80% of states that are in the red zone, and I'm not talking political.

 

Travel industry will continue to take a hit and projections are the air industry will soon follow. 

I cannot argue that.  With that said, they should NOT be mutually exclusive.

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2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I cannot argue that.  With that said, they should NOT be mutually exclusive.

It would be nice if at least there was a progress report to actually see/hear how far apart they are.

 

As a few on here want to shoot down numbers, let them fire away at this.

 

326.7 Milllion people in US

 

30 Million cruised in 2019

 

Googled both for accuracy, so is the CDC more concerned with the majority? General population would probably agree with that , cruise people don't. 

 

This is a no win situation, nobody is every going to be satisfied.

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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

How much firmer could they possibly be, than the requirements laid out in the no sail order?  CDC has laid out the requirements very clearly and firmly.  Whether they are too onerous to make cruising financially possible is up for debate, and should have been addressed by cruise lines' analysis long before now.  It is not up to the CDC to determine how a cruise line meets the requirements, they are not business people, it is up to the cruise lines themselves to determine how best their company or industry can meet the requirements.

 

In my personal opinion, the cruise lines are waiting for the pandemic to slow down, and the CDC to relax many of the draconian measures set out in the no sail order, before they present their remediation plans.

 

I agree. The CDC has a list of requirements and leaves it up to the individual cruise lines as to how they meet them, or perhaps exempt out of a specific requirement. There isn't a one size fits all solution.

 

Without help from the general population following guidelines, the pandemic will be with us for years. Or a miracle occurs. Miracles shouldn't be Plan A.

 

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11 hours ago, Joe817 said:

As an addendum, I firmly believe the CDC has been way less than cooperative in providing the guidance that the cruise lines desperately need to be in compliance with their edicts. How can the cruise lines start back up without firm instructions from CDC on what is required???  The CDC is putting the CLIA in an untenable condition to conform, because of the lack of directives.

 

I'm just a simple country boy, and with that said, I disavow having any knowledge, of any subject in the history of humankind, ever conceived on this planet, pertaining to anything humankind has ever dreamed up,  either in the past, the present or the future. There! How's that for a disclaimer? :classic_laugh:

 

I agree.  But to add my take... The reason why there are no clear directives is because government and other entities cannot protect us from this virus.  It is not as simple as do this and you won’t get it.  Don’t go in a bar and you won’t get it.  Wear a mask and you won’t get it.  Lather your body in hand sanitizer and you won’t get it.  No.  We do not even really know of mask wearing actually contributes to spread.  And I was told a few years ago to stop using hand sanitizer because it made surviving germs  stronger.  What is the truth?  I think the only thing we know for sure is that hand washing and showering regularly helps fight all illness.  The government needs to be honest.  We really have no idea.  It isn’t like aids where we have figured out how it is contracted.   It is a cold virus and is just everywhere.  As my family doctor used to say to my mom when we got sick, she just has a virus, something in the air.  What a great way to put it.  It is just in the air.  Our family doc didn’t pretend like he could control it or stop kids from being bed bound and knocked out for a few days by a virus.  He knew it was just a part of life. 
 Even once we have a vaccine, if we ever get a vaccine, it will not be entirely effective.  We have no vaccines for any cold virus.  There is a certain arrogance that we have if we think we can control nature.  I am not being fatalist but I think that government should be honest with people and then let them make their own decisions.  We do that with the flu.  If there are people willing to take on the full risks of cruising and companies willing to provide the service, it should be allowed.  We allow people to make their own decisions about drinking alcohol, and it is pure poison.  I have seen more people in my life die from alcohol and diseases brought on by alcohol than any virus.  I think it should also be factored in that this virus has turned out to be much less deadly than originally thought.  If you look at overall death rates, they have not gone up at all this year from last year or previous years.  It is what it is.  I think cruise lines should be sailing.  Life is about risk.  And in the grand scheme, this is a pretty small one.  I personally think this is a power play, and that cdc employees are not cruisers.  They are the own a vacation home types and look down on cruisers.  I know a lot of people like that.  I hate to admit it but I used to be one of them.  

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1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Texas and Florida have shutdown bars. It's a start again. Maybe this time they will get it right.

And what is right? The problem is that nobody knows whether any of the measures put in place are effective or "right".  At the beginning of this we were told that wearing a mask was no protection from spreading or acquiring the virus; now we are being required in many settings to wear one. Did closing a large number of businesses and putting millions out of work make us all safer? It is a dilemma, and until either a high percentage of the population contracts the virus and builds immunity or an effective vaccine is developed, which could be never, we are going to be living with this threat. Frankly, the more young and otherwise healthy who contract the virus and have a mild case, which statistics show are those who are getting it at the bars, the more quickly we will reach the level of immunity required to stop the spread of the disease. I'm in my 70s and certainly have no death wish, but I also don't like the prospect of putting my life on hold indefinitely.  By the way, I never frequent bars so the latest shutdown doesn't affect me personally and I can continue to social distance at the supermarket, etc.

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2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Texas and Florida have shutdown bars. It's a start again. Maybe this time they will get it right.

Right ?  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

interesting facts about getting it right ... facts and reality will get cruising going faster .. certainly not Politics 

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59 minutes ago, bitemyfly said:

Right ?  https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

interesting facts about getting it right ... facts and reality will get cruising going faster .. certainly not Politics 

 

That's cumulative and I think many deaths in NY were in nursing homes. However NY is in far better shape today than Texas or Florida. It is not a coincidence that the Northeast including New York leads the country in use of masks.  I wouldn't be surprised if cruising from New York began before Texas or Florida. Those are facts. No politics and no bull.

 

Deniers love to cherry pick a stat to misrepresent until it is obvious they were wrong and then they just move onto the next one.

 

Here's a stat to play with - total number of tests needed to find a positive

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-covid-19-tests-per-confirmed-case

 

The US is in such poor shape Fauci wants to move to pool testing.

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20 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

That's cumulative and I think many deaths in NY were in nursing homes. However NY is in far better shape today than Texas or Florida. It is not a coincidence that the Northeast including New York leads the country in use of masks.  I wouldn't be surprised if cruising from New York began before Texas or Florida. Those are facts. No politics and no bull.

 

Deniers love to cherry pick a stat to misrepresent until it is obvious they were wrong and then they just move onto the next one.

 

Here's a stat to play with - total number of tests needed to find a positive

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-covid-19-tests-per-confirmed-case

 

The US is in such poor shape Fauci wants to move to pool testing. 

politics ... Anyone can cherry pick .. cruising starts when there is an effective treatment or a vaccine  is available.

 Most , not all want to cruise and travel and not go to hospital  and die .. positive tests mean little , it’s hospitalization and death . 

When people stop worrying about hospitalization and dying then Travel And leisure comes back .. if there is a economy and money to do it. 

Until then , when  call out who is doing what is right .. most would not care is they were positive and didn’t go into hospital and die alone . 

Look at states performance in an important statistic .. Positive / testing  is a straw man and always have been .. the USA has done 30 million tests to date and its still here .. 

treatment and or a vaccine .. Until then stop people from dying.. And the h*** with politics 

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The US testing is still a joke and still nowhere near the level it needs to be. If the US had started early and had done it right at a national level, we perhaps could be cruising now. And not needed so many tests.

 

Anyone who suggests they know what most would do under the current circumstances has taken a giant step backwards in credibility. 

 

When it comes to beating covid-19, most is not good enough. Virtually all have to get with the program and the disease can be knocked down to something manageable. The sooner everyone complies, the sooner life can start to resemble normalcy. 

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2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

That's cumulative and I think many deaths in NY were in nursing homes. However NY is in far better shape today than Texas or Florida. It is not a coincidence that the Northeast including New York leads the country in use of masks.  I wouldn't be surprised if cruising from New York began before Texas or Florida. Those are facts. No politics and no bull.

 

Deniers love to cherry pick a stat to misrepresent until it is obvious they were wrong and then they just move onto the next one.

 

Here's a stat to play with - total number of tests needed to find a positive

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/number-of-covid-19-tests-per-confirmed-case

 

The US is in such poor shape Fauci wants to move to pool testing.

NY cases to date: 391,000. 24,000 deaths

Florida cases to date: 123,000. 3,300 deaths

TX: 132,000 with 2300 deaths

 

NY: 19,400,000

TX: 29,900,000

FL: 21,400,000

 

Id say the governors of TX and FL did a much better job than NY.  The deaths are much higher in NY. 

 

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57 minutes ago, jean87510 said:

 

 

Id say the governors of TX and FL did a much better job than NY.  The deaths are much higher in NY. 

 

 

I'd say you are in denial. Covid hit New York first and they have been the trail blazers for the rest of the country. Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings.

 

June 25 Covid Deaths

NY - 14

FL - 47

TX - 46

 

Jun 24

NY - 18

FL - 43

TX - 29

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7 hours ago, jean87510 said:

NY cases to date: 391,000. 24,000 deaths

Florida cases to date: 123,000. 3,300 deaths

TX: 132,000 with 2300 deaths

 

NY: 19,400,000

TX: 29,900,000

FL: 21,400,000

 

Id say the governors of TX and FL did a much better job than NY.  The deaths are much higher in NY. 

 

Frankly, none of these governors did anything to stop the spread of this virus.  Not one of these fools has any idea how this thing spreads.  These guys all shut down restaurants and barber shops but not Wal-Mart.  This entire thing has been pointless.  Both the wsj and Stanford Professors have done studies at this point showing that states with the most restrictions ended up with the HIGHEST rates of Covid.  They have no understanding of this virus.  Everyone needs to start doing their own research as opposed to listening to the Cuomo show or Abbott say how important it is that everyone stop tubing down rivers.  Tubing— are you joking?  An outdoor activity where people are separated because they are in their own tubes!!  An activity that younger, fitter people engage in, the kind of people we want to contract this virus to develop immunity.  The governor of Texas arbitrarily shut down bars and tubing this week!  Just bars and tubing?  What is that supposed to do?  Sure sounds like science to me (not).  This is complete insanity.  This is a cold virus where the highest number of deaths occur in the 85+ age group!  You can get that data on the cdc website by the way.

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15 hours ago, jean87510 said:

NY cases to date: 391,000. 24,000 deaths

Florida cases to date: 123,000. 3,300 deaths

TX: 132,000 with 2300 deaths

 

NY: 19,400,000

TX: 29,900,000

FL: 21,400,000

 

Id say the governors of TX and FL did a much better job than NY.  The deaths are much higher in NY. 

 

 

14 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

I'd say you are in denial. Covid hit New York first and they have been the trail blazers for the rest of the country. Can't wait to see what tomorrow brings.

 

June 25 Covid Deaths

NY - 14

FL - 47

TX - 46

 

Jun 24

NY - 18

FL - 43

TX - 29

 

Florida, when reporting their numbers, reports both confirmed and "probable" Covid deaths. New York's official reporting only lists confirmed deaths which is arguably more accurate although makes comparing against jurisdictions impossible and in doing so is another way that media continues to spin the facts to match their narrative. 

 

A great source is https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

 

See https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/ for an explanation on the different reporting methods. 

 

New York State Department of Health reports 24,814 deaths as of 6/26. This is the number accepted and reported on by the media. The website above, which uses the stricter and more widely followed CDC guidelines reports 31,421. New York and the media report 14 deaths on the 25th compared to 47 in Florida. Using the CDC's tougher guidelines Florida is showing 47 deaths (while being accused of shaving the numbers) while New York is showing 48 (while being championed as a model of getting the virus under control.)

 

BTW there are more people in Florida than New York so per capita, New York is still consistently higher at per capita deaths due to Covid-19. Read the above links and see for yourself, I know it is hard to know who to believe and everyone on the internet claims to be an expert. I am no expert on anything, but I believe in reading all the facts available to me.

 

New York is no safer whether 14 people died from Covid or 48 people died from Covid, but one official number being reported versus another official number sure changes people's perception of the situation doesn't it? And knowing that, maybe all states should be reporting only "confirmed" cases because it gives people a much better sense of security.

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