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30 minutes ago, Boltonian said:

 

Thanks for that info.  Something was posted on a certain social media group about an hour ago, saying they were aware of various media reports and were refusing posts for the time being, while trying to get more information of the facts.  I though financial or perhaps something happened on one of the ships - looks like this is it then.  I do not want to accept cookies from Sky, so will get more detailed news when posted elsewhere.  Perhaps we should have paid that cruise balance as would have been covered by ABTA for the deposit cost which we now have a chance of loosing, but we knew the risk and it is not much.

 

It is particularly worrying as I do not see cruise ships sailing any time soon and when they do I am not sure the constraints would allow much profit to be made in the short term, but I would be very sad to see any cruise line running smaller ships to go down and CMV are offering some very good itineraries.

 

  

Edited by tring
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9 minutes ago, Boltonian said:

I apologise for the cookies etc on the SKY piece.  I had not realised the problem for some.

 

Don't know why it bothers me that much, thought I was just a bit strange and many companies just use them on a "if we do not ask you we will" basis.  Thanks for the heads up though.

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Worrying  indeed, and despite my criticism of CMV on other threads I do hope they survive, indeed we have a cruise booked on Amy Johnson next year.

Our previous CMV Cruise was on the lovely old Astoria a couple of years ago and we had an excellent time.

I do stand by my other comments, that the way they treated passengers by only cancelling cruises in July a couple of weeks before sailing date, was unacceptable  but I do wish them well.

Although they hope to resume cruising in August the reality is  that, like other lines, they are unlikely to sail until very late this year, if not into next year.

Not that I know anything about their financial situation but if that does turn out to be the case I think it will be very difficult for them to survive

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I have booked 3 cruises with them for next year and am still awaiting a large refund on 2 cancelled cruises for this year so I am getting quite worried.  I know that UK customers are covered by ABTA[?], but I'm a U.S. customer and don't know if I have any protection.

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Hi Comcox, it is indeed ABTA but I am not sure what the protection is in the US. I know there are lots of differences with booking holidays and I think you can cancel cruises without loss of deposit, which we can not do.

Did you book through CMV's USA office? Do you have to book flights separately or do they do the whole package? Just interested in the different systems in our respective countries.

As far as CMV are concerned there are lots of details online about their attempts to get additional funding  but, as I said in my previous posting, I do fear for them. Even if they survive this week it is likely they will be in trouble again very soon as their target of starting cruises again on 25 August is surely impossible.

One of the big issues remains where cruises could sail to with so many countries reluctant to have thousands of people arriving in their ports, after the well documented problems on cruise liners at the start of the pandemic.

Indeed, only yesterday, Spain (which is starting to open its borders and beaches) extended their ban indefinitely on cruise ships in any ports, including the very popular Balearic islands.

It really would not be a surprise if some of the smaller cruise lines did not make it through the pandemic and CMV are the most likely in this country.

As I said before, I do hope not as we have a cruise booked and are looking forward to sailing on the Amy Johnson, having cruised on her sister ship when the two of them were launched in the early 1990's. We sailed on the Crown Princess, now the Karnika sailing from Mumbai and the sister ship was Regal Princess, now Pacific Dawn, and soon to become Amy Johnson - fingers crossed!).

Good luck in getting your previous refunds.

Kind regards. Peter

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59 minutes ago, comcox said:

I have booked 3 cruises with them for next year and am still awaiting a large refund on 2 cancelled cruises for this year so I am getting quite worried.  I know that UK customers are covered by ABTA[?], but I'm a U.S. customer and don't know if I have any protection.


Do you have protection if you paid using a credit card, as we do? Do American rules mean you can claim a refund from them if the service paid for is not provided? 

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2 hours ago, comcox said:

I have booked 3 cruises with them for next year and am still awaiting a large refund on 2 cancelled cruises for this year so I am getting quite worried.  I know that UK customers are covered by ABTA[?], but I'm a U.S. customer and don't know if I have any protection.

The section 75 protection we have for credit cards may not apply, but can you claim on charge back, which is MasterCard,/Visa rules, and possibly for similar in the US if you did not pay with one of those?

 

The ABTA website says other protections apply in other countries so may be some sort of help.  You have mentioned only having a small loss if you cancel before balance payment for instance.

 

Perhaps we are writing an obituary too soon though.  I join others in hoping they pull through.

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Hi Tring, indeed let's hope so. It would be very sad to see them and their smaller ships disappear. Even the Amy Johnson we are due to go on is "small" at 70,000 tonnes compared to some of the large ones of other lines these days!

 

I see you are based on the lovely Wirral. I stayed there in digs while working in the centre of Liverpool for 6 months a lifetime ago and have been back when the football team I follow played at Tranmere Rovers! 

 

Kind regards. Peter

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1 hour ago, tring said:

The section 75 protection we have for credit cards may not apply, but can you claim on charge back, which is MasterCard,/Visa rules, and possibly for similar in the US if you did not pay with one of those?

 

The ABTA website says other protections apply in other countries so may be some sort of help.  You have mentioned only having a small loss if you cancel before balance payment for instance.

 

Perhaps we are writing an obituary too soon though.  I join others in hoping they pull through.

I've emailed CMV USA this morning to ask.  Their website mentions financial protection for SOME travel arrangements through ATOL, but then doesn't specify if that covers cruises.  I have travel insurance but over here they seem to be claiming if loss has anything at all to do with Covid they won't cover it.

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58 minutes ago, PrincessPete said:

Hi Tring, indeed let's hope so. It would be very sad to see them and their smaller ships disappear. Even the Amy Johnson we are due to go on is "small" at 70,000 tonnes compared to some of the large ones of other lines these days!

 

I see you are based on the lovely Wirral. I stayed there in digs while working in the centre of Liverpool for 6 months a lifetime ago and have been back when the football team I follow played at Tranmere Rovers! 

 

Kind regards. Peter

 

My son was a Tranmere season ticket holder until a few years ago - not sure if he still goes at times now.  We are near the West coast in Heswall, so have been very well placed for walks during lockdown -15 mins from home gets us a view over the Dee estuary to Wales though it is a long steep climb back up if we keep on the the shore 🙂   We are very lucky to live in such a location during these times as there is a lot of variety within heathland and coast of The Wirral, with good access to Liverpool and it's museums as well as coastal and inland North Wales if only we could go to Wales that is.  I am surprised it has not become a holiday area, but perhaps I should not be saying that as the scenic locations are getting more busy with locals now and would be a shame to have them over crowded. 

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15 minutes ago, comcox said:

I've emailed CMV USA this morning to ask.  Their website mentions financial protection for SOME travel arrangements through ATOL, but then doesn't specify if that covers cruises.  I have travel insurance but over here they seem to be claiming if loss has anything at all to do with Covid they won't cover it.


I am afraid ATOL protection is for flights and I don’t think you booked a package including the flights, did you?
 

As per my earlier post, does your credit card not offer any consumer protection? Enabling you to claim a refund from them?

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33 minutes ago, comcox said:

I've emailed CMV USA this morning to ask.  Their website mentions financial protection for SOME travel arrangements through ATOL, but then doesn't specify if that covers cruises.  I have travel insurance but over here they seem to be claiming if loss has anything at all to do with Covid they won't cover it.

 

If the company collapse then it is their failure that causes your loss, so nothing to do with COVID.

 

 ATOL cover for fly holidays over here, so protection in place here if we have booked a flight in conjunction with the cruise(s) in the UK.  We are given an ATOL certificate if our holiday is covered by them, which we need to keep in case we need to claim - is there one buried in your paperwork, or in an email?  Did you Website:-  https://www.caa.co.uk/home/

 

When we book cruise only then our holiday is covered by ABTA

 

Both Marzilcat and I have asked about possible protection via your card payment.  Have you looked into that?  My husband is a retired professional in consumer advice here and thinks chargeback may be a possibility as it is Mastercard/Visa rules, though admittedly has has no knowledge of US law.

 

Our section 75 cover for credit card payments is purely a UK law, so would not apply.

Edited by tring
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Obviously we all hope CMV can be rescued. But there may be no return to normal cruises until 2022 which has further serious financial implications for cruise companies. Not least CMV. And they have damaged their reputation by misleading customers in saying their 90 to 120 day timescale to process refunds for cancelled cruises is the result of ABTA guidance. Which it is not. They simply do not have the means to issue mass refunds and have no option but to use delaying tactics. While UK / European law states refunds must be made within 14 days, no-one expects companies dealing with the results of a pandemic to be able to abide by that. But a wait of several months is unacceptable. I do wonder if a single refund has actually been issued by CMV to anyone?

Edited by london14
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19 hours ago, tring said:

 

If the company collapse then it is their failure that causes your loss, so nothing to do with COVID.

 

 ATOL cover for fly holidays over here, so protection in place here if we have booked a flight in conjunction with the cruise(s) in the UK.  We are given an ATOL certificate if our holiday is covered by them, which we need to keep in case we need to claim - is there one buried in your paperwork, or in an email?  Did you Website:-  https://www.caa.co.uk/home/

 

When we book cruise only then our holiday is covered by ABTA

 

Both Marzilcat and I have asked about possible protection via your card payment.  Have you looked into that?  My husband is a retired professional in consumer advice here and thinks chargeback may be a possibility as it is Mastercard/Visa rules, though admittedly has has no knowledge of US law.

 

Our section 75 cover for credit card payments is purely a UK law, so would not apply.

With my credit cards you can file a claim within 60 days of charge normally.  I will have to ask about claims for charges made farther back in time.

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1 hour ago, london14 said:

Obviously we all hope CMV can be rescued. But there may be no return to normal cruises until 2022 which has further serious financial implications for cruise companies. Not least CMV. And they have damaged their reputation by misleading customers in saying their 90 to 120 day timescale to process refunds for cancelled cruises is the result of ABTA guidance. Which it is not. They simply do not have the means to issue mass refunds and have no option but to use delaying tactics. While UK / European law states refunds must be made within 14 days, no-one expects companies dealing with the results of a pandemic to be able to abide by that. But a wait of several months is unacceptable. I do wonder if a single refund has actually been issued by CMV to anyone?


Exactly the same problem seems to be being reported by the customers of every cruise line. CMV is not unusual in being very slow to make refunds. You just have to be patient, I’m afraid. You will get your money eventually, either from CMV or ABTA if they go bust. 

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I'm well aware of the wider picture involving all travel companies, not just cruise lines. But in CMV's case the suspicion is they are not processing refunds at all - or only a small fraction - as they do not have the cash. With no prospect of refunds being given unless a rescue package is found. And, yes, they are ABTA guaranteed for UK customers but that could spell several months more delay when, in some cases, customers with changed circumstances are in dire need of their money back.

Edited by london14
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1 hour ago, london14 said:

I'm well aware of the wider picture involving all travel companies, not just cruise lines. But in CMV's case the suspicion is they are not processing refunds at all - or only a small fraction - as they do not have the cash. With no prospect of refunds being given unless a rescue package is found. And, yes, they are ABTA guaranteed for UK customers but that could spell several months more delay when, in some cases, customers with changed circumstances are in dire need of their money back.


I suspect that the reason why travel companies are so slow at processing refunds is indeed that they do not have enough money to do so all at once. Not just CMV, but all of them. They also have all furloughed most of their staff, so there are only a few people working on it.

 

That is why it is important wherever possible, that people do not take refunds, but rebook for the future. I have rebooked our July Fred Olsen cruise for 2022. I have not heard a word fro Tui/Marella about our November cruise which their website announced was cancelled many weeks ago. But when they do eventually get around to contacting me, I shall use the credit to book another holiday. If people all insist on refunds, there will be no cruise lines or holiday companies left.

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I have seen that logic reported for several months now and do not disagree. But CMV claim 'just' 30 per cent of their customers have requested refunds. They are sitting on money that is not theirs and those customers are legally entitled to a refund.

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4 hours ago, comcox said:

With my credit cards you can file a claim within 60 days of charge normally.  I will have to ask about claims for charges made farther back in time.

 

For us there is also a time limit before which claims need to be made after it becomes clear that you will not get what you have purchased.  Obviously there could not be a claim made at present, but if the company do collapse then there is a time after that during which we would need to make a claim.  May well be similar for you, I hope so.

 

At present there is still hope CMV will pull through, though what will happen in the future will still be a concern.  I see Carnival Corporation are getting rid of some ships and moving others between cruise lines, though full details not published yet and seems the process is likely to be ongoing.  Marella axed one of their ships quite early on as well.  From what I have seen the only move by CMV as yet is for Astor to be returned to her owners, though I do not think she was due to sail after the year end, and the chance of those cruises going ahead would be very doubtful anyway, which CMV must realise.  I have seen that some ports are closing for a long time - as late as 2022 being cited by at least one port, so yes cruising is not going to return to what was previously planned for a long time and consumer confidence will be dented considerably as well.

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6 hours ago, london14 said:

....they have damaged their reputation by misleading customers in saying their 90 to 120 day timescale to process refunds for cancelled cruises is the result of ABTA guidance. Which it is not. 

 

You need to realise that ABTA are a trade body, set up to support the trade.  Consumer advice can be obtained from "Which",  as it is a consumer body and they have a website which can be visited, though some parts will be restricted if you have not paid for membership (not massive cost and is something we have kept on finding it useful when making purchases).

 

ABTA do have a section which is entitled "advice for customers" (or similar wording).  But that is obviously written with support for the trade in mind, so need to be read with caution.  If you have access to the trade section of the site, you would be able to see the advice given to the trade, otherwise you would not (there is a need for members to sign in).  Given what is written in the customer section I would not be at all surprised if the advice to the trade is as CMV says, though I do not have access to it personally.

 

I also understand from someone who runs a business that he and other business owners were advised by their accountants not to pay outstanding bills when all this lot kicked off and I am not surprised at that as the accountants after all are paid to support their customers (the business owners).  What advice has been given since then is not something of which I am aware.

Edited by tring
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3 hours ago, marylizcat said:


That is why it is important wherever possible, that people do not take refunds, but rebook for the future. I have rebooked our July Fred Olsen cruise for 2022. I have not heard a word fro Tui/Marella about our November cruise which their website announced was cancelled many weeks ago. But when they do eventually get around to contacting me, I shall use the credit to book another holiday. If people all insist on refunds, there will be no cruise lines or holiday companies left.

 

I strongly disagree.  For a start booking another cruise at this stage would not be insured at all since the FCO are still advising against travel, so you would not even be insured for cancellation if a health issue, or other reason meant you would not be able to travel in the future.  Cancellation and curtailment for COVID is also not insurable at present, so cover would not be in place, even if FCO change their advice.  Regards that last comment I suggest you look at CMV's new T&C's regards COVID as they can refuse to take you or even not let you continue to travel, but say they will not take financial responsibility of that and also give other changes, some of which may well be a bit debatable regards not allowing your legal rights.  As we went through the booking process we were pointed to much more lengthy T&C's as well.

 

Supporting companies is all very well, but is not something I would throw a large amount of cash into if it looked at risk.  We now accept we may well have made a £200 donation to CMV since our deposit payment for a July cruise is now deducted from a short cruise we have booked from a local port for next July, but that was a risk we took and knew we were doing so.  Our calculation was that as it was an interesting cruise with a port each day and there was a cabin in a location we were happy about and travel to the port would not involve extra cost/hassle.  The alternative could have been finding no availability that would suit us (we are fussy re cabin location) and that cost could be higher in the future.  Also we would have needed to pay almost another £2,800 which we would now have the hassle of chasing since the July 2020 cruise has been cancelled - so we took the gamble.  We initially obtained a future cruise credit, before using it to book the cruise, but the FCC did not cover the requirements that ABTA claim they would honour and there is not even any legal obligation for them to honour an FCC anyway as vouchers are not considered to have a value.  Despite requests from ABTA to the Government, the law has not been changed to my knowledge.  Hence, although we may try to recoup the voucher value if CMV fold, DH with his background in consumer protection, holds out little hope of getting it, though we will get the extra deposit paid for next year's cruise back from our CC or ABTA.

 

Just thought it worth clarifying those facts.

 

I still hope CMV will pull through and wish them well.

Edited by tring
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Well, we aren’t talking large sums of money, just deposits, so insurance pretty irrelevant, with excesses meaning little would be covered anyway. Incidentally travel insurance is now available to cover COVID, if you want it. Look at Trailfinders insurance.

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