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Carnival Corp to retire 6 ships in next 90 days


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1 hour ago, DryCreek said:

And that's why I mentioned the itinerary currently offered by Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line.

They have leadership that has been involved (heavily) in the industry for a long time, and just like when Carnival was an upstart company breaking into an already established business model with new ideas, this company may also seize on the possibility of adding a new port or two.  I do believe that they have contracted to purchase one of the Fantasy class ships from Carnival - and they are already running a whale-tale ship anyway.

 

Like Spirit Airlines which operates with a very limited fleet, BPCL could time a departure out of mobile and port in one of their two destinations, drop off those who booked a "Cruise and Stay Package", and then return to Mobile.  If they could book just C&S packages, then they could drop off a load, run to their other port (Palm Beach), pick up another group, drop them, pick up the original group, run them back to Mobile, and then start the cycle all over.

I would assume that Nassau and the Grand Bahamas would be a suitable itinerary for Mobile, but I am no expert on those demographics.

@Thorncroftis an expert on the port of Mobile. Maybe he can share some insight?

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6 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

@Thorncroftis an expert on the port of Mobile. Maybe he can share some insight?

While this all sounds very intriguing, Mobile is where cruise ships go to die. Mobile killed the Holiday and now the Fantasy. You realize that any ship that goes there is on death watch, right?  How badly do you want to suicide your ship? I doubt that Carnival wants to give up any more ships than they've already decided to cull from the fleet. Ironically, the ink is barely dry on a fresh new 3-year contract between Carnival and Mobile. Will they send another ship or just buy out the contract and be done with Mobile? The timing was certainly not on Carnival's side. 

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11 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

While this all sounds very intriguing, Mobile is where cruise ships go to die. Mobile killed the Holiday and now the Fantasy. You realize that any ship that goes there is on death watch, right?  How badly do you want to suicide your ship? I doubt that Carnival wants to give up any more ships than they've already decided to cull from the fleet. Ironically, the ink is barely dry on a fresh new 3-year contract between Carnival and Mobile. Will they send another ship or just buy out the contract and be done with Mobile? The timing was certainly not on Carnival's side. 

If they file bankruptcy, can they get out of the Mobile contract without penalty?

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50 minutes ago, Thorncroft said:

Mobile is where cruise ships go to die. Mobile killed the Holiday and now the Fantasy.

I guess to be more clear, Mobile is where Carnival sends some older ships "to die".

I was proposing a new operator.  One that offers something different  - much the same way Carnival did in their early ears.

 

But on a lighter note - didn't Triumph go there to be "healed" after that power distribution fire?  Or at least patched up enough to return to limited service.  Of course she busted loose that one time to go and smash into that freighter that was making fun of her.  A real party gal, that Triumph!

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1 hour ago, Thorncroft said:

While this all sounds very intriguing, Mobile is where cruise ships go to die. Mobile killed the Holiday and now the Fantasy. You realize that any ship that goes there is on death watch, right?  How badly do you want to suicide your ship? I doubt that Carnival wants to give up any more ships than they've already decided to cull from the fleet. Ironically, the ink is barely dry on a fresh new 3-year contract between Carnival and Mobile. Will they send another ship or just buy out the contract and be done with Mobile? The timing was certainly not on Carnival's side. 

 

Carnival has walked away from Mobile before. and other ports. If Carnival walks and Mobile makes a big deal out of it, the port of Mobile could be on death watch for getting another cruise ship.

 

Prior to Covid, Mobile was going to get a different ship, so I'm not sure Fantasy was on death watch in the first place.

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This week, it announced that its Holland America line sold four of its ships, resulting in even more cancellations to its growing list of nixed voyages. 

 

no idea which 4. article didint say

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6 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

This week, it announced that its Holland America line sold four of its ships, resulting in even more cancellations to its growing list of nixed voyages. 

 

no idea which 4. article didint say

Amsterdam. Rotterdam. Veendam. Maasdam.

 

The two R-Class are going to Fred Olsen. I don’t know offhand where the other two are heading.

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On 7/17/2020 at 11:38 PM, BlerkOne said:

 

Carnival has walked away from Mobile before. and other ports. If Carnival walks and Mobile makes a big deal out of it, the port of Mobile could be on death watch for getting another cruise ship.

 

Prior to Covid, Mobile was going to get a different ship, so I'm not sure Fantasy was on death watch in the first place.

Looks like it is now and ended up being that way.

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On 7/17/2020 at 10:48 PM, DryCreek said:

I guess to be more clear, Mobile is where Carnival sends some older ships "to die".

I was proposing a new operator.  One that offers something different  - much the same way Carnival did in their early ears.

 

But on a lighter note - didn't Triumph go there to be "healed" after that power distribution fire?  Or at least patched up enough to return to limited service.  Of course she busted loose that one time to go and smash into that freighter that was making fun of her.  A real party gal, that Triumph!

Again, call me crazy, but I don’t think the Mobile market segment has enough people looking for what you are proposing to be profitable or competitive. It’s just not there.

 

And yes, that’s where the Triumph did go to.

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Updated list

Previously sold

Costa neoClassica sold to Bahamas Paradise

Costa neoRiviera sold to AIDA (group Co.)

Costa Atlantica - sold to Carnival-China JV

Costa Mediterranea - sold to Carnival-China JV

P&O Aus Pacific Aria - sold to CMV, early departure

P&O Aus Pacific Dawn-sold to CMV, early departure

 

Confirmed

Costa Victoria - sold for scrap

P&O Oceana sold to Greek buyer-Chinese interests

HAL Maasdam

HAL Veendam

HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen

HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen

Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises

Golden Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia

Star Princess - internal transfer to P&O Australia

 

Very Likely

Carnival Fascination - sold for scrap

Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap

Carnival Elation - sold for scrap

Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap

Carnival Ecstasy - sold for scrap

Carnival Fantasy- sold for scrap.

 

Unlikely, although old

Carnival Sensation - just completed dry dock at Freeport Yard on 17 Jan 2020

 

http://crew-center.com/carnival-cruise-line-dry-dock-cruise-ship-schedule-2020

 

 

 

 

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Drsel - I was wondering today.. maybe the Victory/Radiance will eventually get added to that list. If Carnival is unable to find a shipyard willing to complete the transformation - assuming Carnival wants to spend the money, it might be easier just to send her to Turkey.

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On 7/17/2020 at 8:15 PM, DryCreek said:

I thought that Carnival was running a three day cruise out of Norfolk to Bermuda and back.  No PVSA  issues there, that I am aware of.

Bahama Paradise Cruise Lines offers two-day packages that leave Palm Beach, call on Grand Bahama Island or Nassau, and then back.  They even have a special package "Cruise and Stay Package" where you  cruise to either destination, stay two, four or six days, and then return to Palm Beach.

So, if they pick up another ship, and another port, why wouldn't they be able to offer the same packages out of Mobile?  Was Pam Beach exempted from the PVSA?

ETA - Baltimore to Bermuda is also apparently allowed.

Since nearly all these cruise ships are foreign-flagged, they can sail from a U.S. port to a foreign port and back with no problem. But they could not legally sail passengers from Mobile to Miami which are two U.S. ports. The Port of Palm Beach is not exempted from cabotage laws but the cruises are going to a foreign port. Yes, a cruise line could carry passengers from Mobile to the Bahamas and back. But they couldn't do it as a 2-night cruise because it's too far.

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Drsel - I was wondering today.. maybe the Victory/Radiance will eventually get added to that list. If Carnival is unable to find a shipyard willing to complete the transformation - assuming Carnival wants to spend the money, it might be easier just to send her to Turkey.
I think Carnival is done selling ships for now
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On 7/17/2020 at 8:15 PM, DryCreek said:

I thought that Carnival was running a three day cruise out of Norfolk to Bermuda and back.  No PVSA  issues there, that I am aware of.

As mentioned, it is the issue with transporting passengers from one US port to another, different, US port.  Back and forth from one port to the same port (without dropping off or picking up any new pax) is clearly legal, it is how all cruises normally operate.

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11 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

As mentioned, it is the issue with transporting passengers from one US port to another, different, US port.  Back and forth from one port to the same port (without dropping off or picking up any new pax) is clearly legal, it is how all cruises normally operate.

But I wasn't postulating that they would pick up in one spot and drop off at another.

I do understand how closed-loop cruises work.

Bahamas Paradise Cruises offers a package where they drop you off for a number of days at one of their ports of call.  You spend time ashore at a package hotel.  Then you board the ship and come home.

That ship does not sit at the harbor while some of the passengers are booked ashore.  Nope, it returns to its homeport and discharges the passengers that opted for cruise-only.  Then they head back to the same port with another load of both cruise-only and cruise-stay passengers - and while there, pick up the passengers that had booked cruise and stay packages for the return trip home.

What I was thinking of was finding a suitable schedule where they could leave Mobile with cruise and stay packages only, drop the passengers at the port of call, and then make a quick, shorter run during the time they are in the area (i.e. two-day cruise only bookings).  After making a closed-loop out of palm beach they would return to pick up the Mobile pax and return.

The only issue I see is deadheading to Palm Beach from either Grand Bahama or Nassau.  Of course, an excellent planner wouuld have them picking up a load of cruise-stay pax to defray the cost.  That is where timing would come in.

Under no circumstances would a MObile passenger be allowed to continue on to Palm Beach.

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On 7/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, xDisconnections said:

Again, call me crazy, but I don’t think the Mobile market segment has enough people looking for what you are proposing to be profitable or competitive. It’s just not there.

 

And yes, that’s where the Triumph did go to.

I am curious as to what you think the ideal itinerary for the average Mobile passenger is.

I am not familiar with their offerings, nor how well they are accepted.

 

I was just thinking that if another operator, offering a novel new cruise experience, were to fill any void left by the departure of Carnival, it might just turn out to be more popular than most could imagine.

 

So, the cruise and stay package to either of BP lines ports of call would not sell well in the Mobile market?

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19 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

I am curious as to what you think the ideal itinerary for the average Mobile passenger is.

I am not familiar with their offerings, nor how well they are accepted.

 

I was just thinking that if another operator, offering a novel new cruise experience, were to fill any void left by the departure of Carnival, it might just turn out to be more popular than most could imagine.

 

So, the cruise and stay package to either of BP lines ports of call would not sell well in the Mobile market?

Short, 5 days or less. As inexpensive as possible. As basic as possible (example- Cozumel, Cozumel/Calica, Cozumel/Costa Maya).

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32 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Short, 5 days or less. As inexpensive as possible. As basic as possible (example- Cozumel, Cozumel/Calica, Cozumel/Costa Maya).

Uhm, have you gone to the Bahamas Paradise Cruise website?

Short, inexpensive cruises are their forte'.  It's sorta' like flying those ultra-low cost airlines, added costs for amenities normally included in the fare.  Just a basic cruise line using well kept older ships.

 

They do offer a unique package where you can sail to one of their ports of call and then disembark for up to six days while staying at a package hotel.  That beats flying, if you are in driving range of Palm Beach.

 

That's why I think that they could be in a unique position to assume a spot in Mobile if they are abandoned by Carnival.  Didn't they purchase one of the Fantasy class ships?

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10 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

Uhm, have you gone to the Bahamas Paradise Cruise website?

Short, inexpensive cruises are their forte'.  It's sorta' like flying those ultra-low cost airlines, added costs for amenities normally included in the fare.  Just a basic cruise line using well kept older ships.

 

They do offer a unique package where you can sail to one of their ports of call and then disembark for up to six days while staying at a package hotel.  That beats flying, if you are in driving range of Palm Beach.

 

That's why I think that they could be in a unique position to assume a spot in Mobile if they are abandoned by Carnival.  Didn't they purchase one of the Fantasy class ships?

No, they own a Holiday class ship. Apparently the Grand Celebration wasn't supposed to resume service until October, even when Grand Classica was supposed to start in June or July, which made it sound like it was due for more than just the normal maintenance.

 

I suppose they could run Celebration on weeklong Bahamas cruises from Mobile (maybe Nassau, Freeport, and Bimini), or do Western Caribbean sailings which could be anywhere form 4-7 days. It's going to be hard, though, competing with the major lines just down I-10 in New Orleans.

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15 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

Uhm, have you gone to the Bahamas Paradise Cruise website?

Short, inexpensive cruises are their forte'.  It's sorta' like flying those ultra-low cost airlines, added costs for amenities normally included in the fare.  Just a basic cruise line using well kept older ships.

 

They do offer a unique package where you can sail to one of their ports of call and then disembark for up to six days while staying at a package hotel.  That beats flying, if you are in driving range of Palm Beach.

 

That's why I think that they could be in a unique position to assume a spot in Mobile if they are abandoned by Carnival.  Didn't they purchase one of the Fantasy class ships?

I'm well aware of their business model as I live within minutes from the port of Palm Beach and frequently see their advertising on TV. The idea you proposed is running to Nassau from Mobile (and possibly picking up passengers in Palm Beach) which would be a little difficult to fit into a short cruise. Longer cruises cannot consistently have a perfect sell every week from Mobile and will not be profitable enough to offer as a standard itinerary.

 

They are currently using the old Carnival Celebration after running their previous ship aground. This is not a cruise line I would consider and would sooner find myself onboard a ship operated by Carnival Cruise Line. Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line caters primarily to the Groupon crowd with some direct bookings. Their hotel accommodations do not match my preference either so I would not opt for a stay and cruise package.

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1 hour ago, DryCreek said:

Uhm, have you gone to the Bahamas Paradise Cruise website?

Short, inexpensive cruises are their forte'.  It's sorta' like flying those ultra-low cost airlines, added costs for amenities normally included in the fare.  Just a basic cruise line using well kept older ships.

 

They do offer a unique package where you can sail to one of their ports of call and then disembark for up to six days while staying at a package hotel.  That beats flying, if you are in driving range of Palm Beach.

 

That's why I think that they could be in a unique position to assume a spot in Mobile if they are abandoned by Carnival.  Didn't they purchase one of the Fantasy class ships?

 

They could do cruises from Mobile to San Juan via the Bahamas and then from San Juan to Palm Beach via the Bahamas. As long as no one bypasses San Juan, they should be okay.

 

If demand from Mobil is not sufficient for frequently sailings, they could do it once a month or so.

 

They don't pretend to be a cruise line for everyone.

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I did a cruise on MSC Armonia , a ship that was stretched to about 65,000 tons, I think.  At our meet & greet, I suggested they should consider sailing this class of ship (Lirica) from Mobile, Jax, Baltimore, etc.  They actually had Armonia  scheduled for Cruises from Tampa, but I think this mess squashed that.  EM

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40 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

I did a cruise on MSC Armonia , a ship that was stretched to about 65,000 tons, I think.  At our meet & greet, I suggested they should consider sailing this class of ship (Lirica) from Mobile, Jax, Baltimore, etc.  They actually had Armonia  scheduled for Cruises from Tampa, but I think this mess squashed that.  EM

 

A good size for Cuba cruises.

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