Wall Street: CDC to blame for cruises not resuming sooner

[Oxo]

Wall Street: CDC to blame for cruises not resuming sooner

IN: 

Coronavirus

By: 

Matt Hochberg

Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines have suspended all of their cruise ship sailings since March, and at least one Wall Street analyst thinks the delay in ships returning to service is the fault of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/sites/default/files/fb/symphony-stx.jpg

Instinet analyst Harry Curtis wrote in a note to clients that he thinks the problem with cruise ships not starting up again faster is not the fault of the company, but a bias on the part of the government

[suzyluvs2cruise]

While this may have some merit this is the opinion of ONE analyst from an online trading company. 

[Oxo]

11 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

While this may have some merit this is the opinion of ONE analyst from an online trading company. 

Thank for the info. Maybe another company will say something different. You never know nowadays. Oh, by the way:

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Oxo
That's where the article came from.

[ECCruise]

Of course it wouldn't be anything like a Wall Street "analyst" to dismiss health concerns for the almighty dollar.

 

[vettecruiser1]

Cruise lines do seem to be bearing a major brunt of this as compared to other travel industry markets.  Because now you can go to Hotels, amusement parks and casinos, plus fly as long as you take precautions, but cruise lines are not allowed to operate.  Seems the risk is the same as long as you take precautions, why is one travel industry being unfairly treated as compared to all the rest. 

[ECCruise]

9 minutes ago, vettecruiser1 said:

Cruise lines do seem to be bearing a major brunt of this as compared to other travel industry markets.  Because now you can go to Hotels, amusement parks and casinos, plus fly as long as you take precautions, but cruise lines are not allowed to operate.  Seems the risk is the same as long as you take precautions, why is one travel industry being unfairly treated as compared to all the rest. 

For just some of the dozens of reasons, in a hotel or a casino, a hospital is usually minutes away.  You can leave on your own volition any time you want.  Even in a long haul flight, only hours away.  Short haul flights, much less.

In hotels and casinos you are cooped up together for at most, hours, not days or weeks. You are not forced to eat in largely closed in quarters.  Social distancing is extremely easy in hotels, unless you are stupid enough to eat at the breakfast buffet. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by ECCruise

[John Reid]

53 minutes ago, Oxo said:

Wall Street: CDC to blame for cruises not resuming sooner

IN: 

Coronavirus

By: 

Matt Hochberg

Royal Caribbean and other cruise lines have suspended all of their cruise ship sailings since March, and at least one Wall Street analyst thinks the delay in ships returning to service is the fault of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

https://www.*****.com/sites/default/files/fb/symphony-stx.jpg

Instinet analyst Harry Curtis wrote in a note to clients that he thinks the problem with cruise ships not starting up again faster is not the fault of the company, but a bias on the part of the government

 

At least one "analyst"? Overwhelming evidence.

A bias by the government?

And, no, it is not the same as planes and hotels. Captive audience in tight quarters with extremely limited medical facilities.

To think they are being "unfairly treated" is sophomoric and ingenuous.

[chengkp75]

Here is my take on this article, as posted on a couple of other boards:

 

 

[travelhound]

30 minutes ago, vettecruiser1 said:

Cruise lines do seem to be bearing a major brunt of this as compared to other travel industry markets.  Because now you can go to Hotels, amusement parks and casinos, plus fly as long as you take precautions, but cruise lines are not allowed to operate.  Seems the risk is the same as long as you take precautions, why is one travel industry being unfairly treated as compared to all the rest. 

Yup, with Disney World opening up in July, you would think Cuise lines should also be able to resume operating.

[vettecruiser1]

Let the consumers decide if they want to take the risk, because at this rate this sector of the travel industry will go bankrupt.  They are not even letting them set a new standard everyone just assumes it will be like it was but it won't, reduced sailing capacity, short routes, no more then at the most 1 sea day in row, new protocols for eating, mustering, embarkation and disembarkation.  It will have a new normal until there is a vaccine or this thing is killed off. Like I said in my first sentence this industry will not survive if they don't at least give the consumer a choice.  Of course the new normal will come with its issues, very limited ports or maybe the end of close loop cruising until they can adjust to more sea days, more expensive travel insurance.

[ECCruise]

1 hour ago, vettecruiser1 said:

Let the consumers decide if they want to take the risk, because at this rate this sector of the travel industry will go bankrupt.  They are not even letting them set a new standard everyone just assumes it will be like it was but it won't, reduced sailing capacity, short routes, no more then at the most 1 sea day in row, new protocols for eating, mustering, embarkation and disembarkation.  It will have a new normal until there is a vaccine or this thing is killed off. Like I said in my first sentence this industry will not survive if they don't at least give the consumer a choice.  Of course the new normal will come with its issues, very limited ports or maybe the end of close loop cruising until they can adjust to more sea days, more expensive travel insurance.

Never gonna happen.

The cruise lines are far more cognizant that if they DO "let the consumers decide" and there is a major outbreak, that is the end of cruising as a viable travel alternative. Done.  Finished.  Kaput.  And they know that consumers can be stupid.  Just read the number of people on here (obviously not a good cross-sample) who would cruise tomorrow if it were available. 

If they take their time, coordinate with the CDC, take they financial bite that they claim they can weather (I've heard over and over on here how they are not going to go belly-up because of the reserves they've amassed) and do it while watching the trends of the virus, they may succeed.

[Oxo]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is my take on this article, as posted on a couple of other boards:

 

 

I seem to hear that statement a lot recently. Yet, I very, very seldom see someone quote or post the other side of an agreement. Yes, the media is; bias, fake and can't be trusted because it is the enemy.

However, post the other side, allow those who may add credibility to the facts the opportunity to testify or tell their side of the story. 

Guilty people hide the truth. Others rewrite or doctor up their version.

We seem to see a lot of that recently. 

This applies to virus cases, deaths, PPE, masks and tests.

If you believe you know the truth and what was posted is a lie, please post it to set thre record straight. 

Let the truth be known!

 

[Oxo]

2 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Never gonna happen.

The cruise lines are far more cognizant that if they DO "let the consumers decide" and there is a major outbreak, that is the end of cruising as a viable travel alternative. Done.  Finished.  Kaput.  And they know that consumers can be stupid.  Just read the number of people on here (obviously not a good cross-sample) who would cruise tomorrow if it were available. 

If they take their time, coordinate with the CDC, take they financial bite that they claim they can weather (I've heard over and over on here how they are not going to go belly-up because of the reserves they've amassed) and do it while watching the trends of the virus, they may succeed.

Excellent posting! Those who can't wait will be the ones who spread it and then blame the cruise lines. 

Death count today is still climbing, 118,809. Testing has no affect on the death count. JMHO

[MJSailors]

   I appreciate the posts that ECCcruise has written on this thread.

Cruiselines will need to decide on a plan that focuses on passenger health concerns if those companies will give customers a confidence level concerning choosing a future cruise vacation.

      There is a recent article on Cruise Critic that explains how Hurtigruten cruises have begun cruising again. The cruises are limited to coastal cruising of Norway.

 

 

 

 

[cruiselvr04]

They aren’t going to cruise if the CDC says no.  If they get a sick ship they are in big trouble with the consumers too and yes it could be the final straw.  Do I think it’s fair?  Probably not.  A big hotel with shows and buffets like Vegas are just as risky but people can leave and go home without saying a word if they want to.

 

 I just wish the lines should be proactive and say what they are thinking.. Quit taking people’s money when you know ships won’t sail.  It’s just unethical.  Shorten the final payment dates at least.  If they shortened them to 30-45 days it would be much more fair.  They will know that far out, not before.

[ECCruise]

2 minutes ago, MJSailors said:

   I appreciate the posts that ECCcruise has written on this thread.

Cruiselines will need to decide on a plan that focuses on passenger health concerns if those companies will give customers a confidence level concerning choosing a future cruise vacation.

      There is a recent article on Cruise Critic that explains how Hurtigruten cruises have begun cruising again. The cruises are limited to coastal cruising of Norway.

Yes.  Here is an article on Hurtigruten resuming sailing.  The first sailings are largely like a ferry (34 ports in 12 days, usually stopping only an hour or two).  After that they plan to begin more extensive sailing, only in Norway, where the COVID-19 effects have been quite low.

[MJSailors]

To continue...

     Although the ships can hold 600 plus passengers, the capacity is being limited to 200 passengers. They are from Denmark and Norway. The cruiseline is working closely with the Norwegian Dept. of health. They are looking at rates of Covid-19 infections to determine the nationality of passengers. Those from the US and UK are not to be welcomed aboard until infection rates from those countries greatly decline.

    Wall Street can look at the situation from an economic standpoint. The Covid-19 virus does not understand finances. It does not understand politics. It does not understand business practices. It is a germ.

        The more businesses and consumers realize the impact of this germ and resolve to find  ways to navigate with it in this world, the sooner a more normal way of life will be attained.

         Wear a mask,keep social distance and stay strong

[Milwaukee Eight]

I say BS. The CDC set the ground rules in March with the no sail order and the cruise lines basically ignored it. The CDC doesn’t want cruise ships to disembark CV19 sick or positive people in US Ports. I’m not sure other ports will allow it either. The CDC is there to protect us, not the cruise industry. 
 

My opinion

 

M8

[Milwaukee Eight]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Here is my take on this article, as posted on a couple of other boards:

 

 

Great reply. I like you feel the cruise industry for the most part have ignored the requirements in the no sail order. 

[twangster]

The CDC is one agency with a focus on just one thing - health.  It's role among other things is to provide decision makers with a viewpoint from the perspective of health alone.  They are not chartered with the task of incorporating other factors like the economy, jobs or legal viewpoints.  The CDC represents one chair at a table with a number of other chairs occupied by other agencies providing data to decision makers.  

 

A decision maker can listen to what the CDC says, then listen to what an economist says, then listen to what a lawyers says then listen to all the other agencies involved with the discussion.  Based on all that input a decision maker can then choose what they deem to be the right way to proceed which is going to be somewhere between the extremes that all agencies like the CDC are offering.  That's the way the system is designed to work.  Except...

 

The cruise industry finds itself being controlled exclusively by the CDC in this matter.  There is no balance or compromise because the CDC is the decision maker.   The CDC only sees this from the perspective of health, not jobs, not economies, not social factors, not legal factors.   In the extreme that would be "If just one life is saved by banning cruising until 2025 then cruising shall be banned".  The CDC can choose that path because it's their decision to make.

 

The singular focus of the CDC is by design but it makes them myopic and that is preventing the cruise lines from moving forward.  It might kill the cruise industry.  

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by twangster

[Baron Barracuda]

Easier to demonize the CDC if other health authorities around the world had allowed cruising to resume.  But they'haven't.

[karena1]

5 hours ago, vettecruiser1 said:

Cruise lines do seem to be bearing a major brunt of this as compared to other travel industry markets.  Because now you can go to Hotels, amusement parks and casinos, plus fly as long as you take precautions, but cruise lines are not allowed to operate.  Seems the risk is the same as long as you take precautions, why is one travel industry being unfairly treated as compared to all the rest. 

Totally agree!  The CDC hates that the cruise industry is not under their control since they are based in other countries, so want to get them under their thumb.  Totally unfair.

[RKHOOKER]

That data to date is quite conclusive.  Every outbreak of Covid 19 on a cruise ship has led to deaths.  The same situation as Nursing homes.

[ECCruise]

4 hours ago, karena1 said:

Totally agree!  The CDC hates that the cruise industry is not under their control since they are based in other countries, so want to get them under their thumb.  Totally unfair.

Who do you know high in the ranks of the CDC?

If you don't, then that may be the craziest conspiracy theory I've heard in a while.  And there are tons of really bad ones floating around right now.

 

[John Reid]

5 hours ago, karena1 said:

Totally agree!  The CDC hates that the cruise industry is not under their control since they are based in other countries, so want to get them under their thumb.  Totally unfair.

What are you, 12?

If the CDC hates that the cruise industry is not under their control, as you say, why are you concerned that the evil CDC is  controlling them????

You know, it may just be me, but I haven't been reading about the cruise lines moaning about the CDC. They understand the magnitude of their problem and their problem isn't the CDC; the problem is a virus like no other as far as how its spread can be disguised. "

There have been posts about "letting the consumers decide." As if.

Those consumer decision makers have no responsibility if things go south. More cruises floating around with no port accepting them, crew repatriations again, lawsuits.

This is when some will say that the consumer could sign a waiver. Waivers hold up when it is fault or lack of skill of the consumer that causes a problem. Waivers don't really  protect the business when its negligence causes a problem.

I've been cruising as many as five times a year in recent years for a total of 39; I miss cruising badly and don't want the industry crippled. But, as an adult, I realize there are bigger forces at work.

 

"But amusement parks are opening." Yeah, and Florida has had a 147% increase in cases the last two weeks. How would a ship with such limited medical staffing, space, and equipment be able to handle even 20 cases let alone the possibility of hundreds of cases as happens with Norovirus? Isolation in a room is not treatment; it's containment, at best.