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Maybe the CDC is right after all


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I don't think one date has anything to do with the other.  CLIA said 9-15 and Carnival said 9-30 which tells me that Carnival, perhaps very astutely, thinks it will need more time.  I would be way more concerned if Carnival announced a date that was before the CLIA 9-15 date.

 

As for the CDC...sheeh...don't get me started.

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3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The problem isn't the CDC, WHO, or cruise lines. The problem is the fraction of the American population who refused to follow guidelines, and the growing percentage who are doing the same. Some parts of America may be controlling the virus, but when looking at the big picture, American continues to be a superspreader. Current testing and treatments are a joke with unknown reliability and quality of many. It will be years before a clear winner in the vaccine race will be known, and even then, it is doubtful that it will be 100% effective or will last a lifetime.

 

Most of the rest of the world is clearly ahead of the US in the battle to control the virus. I don't think it will be a stretch in the future for most of the rest of the world to enjoy free travel and America and a few others to be on a quarantine list.

Agree with much of what you said, driving around yesterday in the Tampa Bay area, everything seemed back to normal, everything open, no one distancing, and few wearing masks!

This is why or infections have skyrocketed higher then at any time!

Are they doing more testing, yea but not at the amount the infections are going up!

And besides, more testing could have shown less new infections!

But it didn't, it revealed a lot more new infections!

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1 hour ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Unfortunately cruising and social distancing are two very mutually exclusive things.

A cruise ship is not set up for this kind of thing. 

 

 

 

10000000% correct! You hit the nail directly on the head. 

Cruise ships are NOT designed/set up for social distancing. 

 

hit-nail-on-head.jpg

 

 

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1 minute ago, AmBear said:

Are they doing more testing, yea but not at the amount the infections are going up!

And besides, more testing could have shown less new infections!

But it didn't, it revealed a lot more new infections!

 

There are many false claims being made about testing, but without contact tracing and follow up care and quarantine, it isn't going to accomplish much. If the US had done this from the beginning, many of the "shutdowns" might have been averted.

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Just now, BlerkOne said:

 

There are many false claims being made about testing, but without contact tracing and follow up care and quarantine, it isn't going to accomplish much. If the US had done this from the beginning, many of the "shutdowns" might have been averted.

Agreed!

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2 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I have been very critical of the way the CDC has treated the  cruise industry both online and verbally with family, friends, neighbors, etc.  But I am starting to think maybe the CDC knows what they are doing since it appears the cruise lines and cruise industry have no idea what they are doing.  CLIA comes out and announces all US cruises are suspended until September 15th, but then today Carnival announces all cruises are cancelled thru September 30th.  When the cruise industry can’t even agree on something as simple as a date, it makes me wonder if the cruise lines have a clue what they are doing? Maybe that’s what the CDC is consistently seeing and therefore has no interest in seeing cruise lines resuming operations any time soon. 

I believe Carnival just decided to cancel through September 30th to start off at the beginning of the month IF they are able to start back.  That also gives them 2 more weeks to fine tuning. 

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3 minutes ago, Chyna3032 said:

I believe Carnival just decided to cancel through September 30th to start off at the beginning of the month IF they are able to start back.  That also gives them 2 more weeks to fine tuning. 

Lots of luck to them, with the recent surge in infections here in Florida, the joke going around is,

renaming the state to 'VIRUSLAND'! 😷=picture on our flag

Come here for a vacation and leave with a 'friend' to take home!😉

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26 minutes ago, ObstructedView2 said:

 

 

10000000% correct! You hit the nail directly on the head. 

Cruise ships are NOT designed/set up for social distancing. 

 

hit-nail-on-head.jpg

 

 

Neither are airplanes and they are flying

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15 minutes ago, Chyna3032 said:

I believe Carnival just decided to cancel through September 30th to start off at the beginning of the month IF they are able to start back.  That also gives them 2 more weeks to fine tuning. 

That is also the beginning of a fiscal quarter allowing for start up costs to be in one quarter ... restaffing and ordering of supplies, final tuning of ships, etc and the beginning of profit making in the next quarter. I don't know about Carnival but many organizations also have the end of their fiscal year Sept 30th.

 

 

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1 hour ago, tonit964 said:

I think one of the biggest issues is people boarding with no symptoms and infecting many. The comedian that collapsed on stage a few days ago said he had no symptoms and yet tested positive and how many did he infect unknowingly. Even a short cruise under these circumstances would be bad in that who would let them dock and debark with an outbreak? Multiply that by however many ships are able to start up. I also don't think the crew will/can enforce mask wearing.

It's a logistical nightmare for sure. Just my opinion.

I agree and the fact that people are refusing to wear mask to make some statement will keep the cruising industry pushing back their dates for resuming.  95% of people will comply, it's just that 5% that don't realize the more they walk around without mask and don't social distance the longer this pandemic will last.

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46 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

The problem isn't the CDC, WHO, or cruise lines. The problem is the fraction of the American population who refused to follow guidelines, and the growing percentage who are doing the same. Some parts of America may be controlling the virus, but when looking at the big picture, American continues to be a superspreader. Current testing and treatments are a joke with unknown reliability and quality of many. It will be years before a clear winner in the vaccine race will be known, and even then, it is doubtful that it will be 100% effective or will last a lifetime.

 

Most of the rest of the world is clearly ahead of the US in the battle to control the virus. I don't think it will be a stretch in the future for most of the rest of the world to enjoy free travel and America and a few others to be on a quarantine list.

 

You nailed it. Americans are selfish. 

I traveled to Japan at the beginning of this coronavirus ordeal and mask wearing has been customary for decades, especially during cold and flu season. It's not really about preventing yourself from getting sick, it's about protecting others from catching your illness. Argue about masks all you want, but it's clear that this country has been doomed from the start while other nations have succeeded. 

 

Even if ships do sail, most of the ports are not going to accept ships from the US for quite some time. So what is the point of Carnival, or any cruiseline, to try to bring crew members on board (who just got home) only to find themselves unable to sail anywhere? This is far from over for the United States. 

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As is with the Flu vaccines many people choose not to get them. Is escalating "Death" enough to make individuals go out and get the Corona Virus vaccine (whenever it's concocted )?  Some individuals will still not agree to wear a mask? Why should Carnival and any Government agency be subjected to "enhanced scrutiny" when people will still "refuse" to follow whatever the rules will be?  

 

This one will be debated for years to come!!!

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4 minutes ago, Doggielover68 said:

You nailed it. Americans are selfish. 

I traveled to Japan at the beginning of this coronavirus ordeal and mask wearing has been customary for decades, especially during cold and flu season.

Eh, I think that's a little harsh.  As you pointed out, Japan (and others) are accustomed to wearing masks and have been doing so for a long time.  This is a cultural norm due, in large part, to the vast numbers of people living in very close proximity.  The suggestion of mask wearing in the US is very new and has only been promoted since mid March....quite different than those who have grown used to it through decades of practice.  Americans have always stepped up to the plate to do what's right for the common good.  If mask wearing takes a little time to get used to, I think we deserve a little leeway and flexibility.  I would describe Americans in a lot of ways but "selfish" isn't one of them.  

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19 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Neither are airplanes and they are flying

 

On an airplane you are next to 1 or 2 people for the duration of your flight. I don't know the average flight time, but if I had to venture a guess; I'd say it is 3 hours or less.  In addition, flights are necessary for business reasons in a way that cruises most definitely are not. Meaning that cruising is a discretionary recreational activity; not a viable method of transport for conducting business.  

The duration of a cruise can be several days to several weeks in which you are in contact with hundreds if not thousands of different people. How could any cruiseline manage that situation? It's practically impossible. 

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49 minutes ago, ObstructedView2 said:

 

 

10000000% correct! You hit the nail directly on the head. 

Cruise ships are NOT designed/set up for social distancing. 

 

 

And I did not even just mean the physical layout and space available onboard; I mean the entire cruise experience.  The whole premise of a cruise is a package vacation with activities and events pre-planned to get groups together. It's fun! Everything is a party. It's a lively atmosphere, people make new friends, more crowds means more excitement.  People say they just "want to get onboard" but how many would be content with the experience when it means many activities cancelled and the cruise experience to be one of just lounging around most of the day without the party atmosphere?  

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29 minutes ago, AmBear said:

Lots of luck to them, with the recent surge in infections here in Florida, the joke going around is,

renaming the state to 'VIRUSLAND'! 😷=picture on our flag

Come here for a vacation and leave with a 'friend' to take home!😉

"The middle East and southeast Asia Cruises are available after mid October 2020.

The virus is under control in these places".

 

Just read the above quote.  What did they do that the US did not? They followed the Rules!!!

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12 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

On an airplane you are next to 1 or 2 people for the duration of your flight. I don't know the average flight time, but if I had to venture a guess; I'd say it is 3 hours or less.  In addition, flights are necessary for business reasons in a way that cruises most definitely are not. Meaning that cruising is a discretionary recreational activity; not a viable method of transport for conducting business.  

The duration of a cruise can be several days to several weeks in which you are in contact with hundreds if not thousands of different people. How could any cruiseline manage that situation? It's practically impossible. 

 

To be fair, many times more people fly in planes daily vs cruising. Just because we can picture a cruise ship holding more people at once, doesn't change how a virus spreads. People on planes are sitting in very close quarters. Same with at the airport. They are touching the seats, armrests, bathrooms, luggage, etc. Then they go to another city where they could spread it more. There is also no crew coming around to constantly sanitize the plane while people are on it. If the social distancing guideline is 6 foot, you can very easily have 8 people within 6 feet of you on a plane.

 

It seems that the internet has become a great place to make claims that may contradict each other, but as long as you stick to your original view, you can just write off any opposing views. The cruise industry is absolutely getting the short end of the stick here.

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2 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

To be fair, many times more people fly in planes daily vs cruising. Just because we can picture a cruise ship holding more people at once, doesn't change how a virus spreads. People on planes are sitting in very close quarters. Same with at the airport. They are touching the seats, armrests, bathrooms, luggage, etc. Then they go to another city where they could spread it more. There is also no crew coming around to constantly sanitize the plane while people are on it. If the social distancing guideline is 6 foot, you can very easily have 8 people within 6 feet of you on a plane.

 

It seems that the internet has become a great place to make claims that may contradict each other, but as long as you stick to your original view, you can just write off any opposing views. The cruise industry is absolutely getting the short end of the stick here.

I'm not known to write off opposing views. I'm always up for a fair discussion. I am pointing out some differences.  Air travel is air travel and cruise travel is cruise travel; and presented some of the differences between them.  You, correctly, pointed out other points of consideration. 

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2 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

I'm not known to write off opposing views. I'm always up for a fair discussion. I am pointing out some differences.  Air travel is air travel and cruise travel is cruise travel; and presented some of the differences between them.  You, correctly, pointed out other points of consideration. 

 

To be fair, that last paragraph wasn't directed at you. Just all of the inconsistencies out there. Especially once it starts to get political.

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Flying lately is amazing.  Planes are flying nowhere NEAR capacity.  Even though schedules have been cut drastically.  You can EASILY distance yourself from your fellow passengers even on a regional jet these days because there just isn't a great deal of flying going on with business travel having been replaced by things like Skype and Zoom.  

Edited by CogitoErgoZoom
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9 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

To be fair, that last paragraph wasn't directed at you. Just all of the inconsistencies out there. Especially once it starts to get political.

Yes, I bail out at that point.  I'm data and fact driven. Nothing I say will sway the minds of people who aren't discussing with the same baseline.  Your observations are pretty on point. Perspective matters.  But I firmly believe we won't get back to doing what we love doing unless everyone takes this seriously.  I'm in Florida.  People here believe it's "nothing" but ICU's are running out of capacity. One person said to me "And you believe that's all COVID?"  No.  No one said it was.  It's just a factual statement to say ICU's are at less than 20% capacity for whatever myriad ailments and so by people casually going about their lives, you run a risk of healthcare system strain in which they can not also manage heart attack, stroke, trauma/accidents, etc. It's disheartening how so few seem able or willing to think about their actions 2 or 3 steps past themselves, or unwilling to do the most basic steps to not be a part of the problem. 

 

Sure do miss cruising, not in a rush to get onboard.  Don't see how its feasible. 

 

Image may contain: 1 person, text that says 'Daniel Uhlfelder @DWUhlfelderLaw Amid surge in Florida COVID-19 19 cases, Fla. Gov. DeSantis changed guidelines for ICU reporting. He doesn't want hospitals to report the number of patients in ICU beds. He only wants hospitals to report number of patients in ICU beds who require an "intensive level of care." 11:58 AM Jun 22, 2020 Twitter Web App'

 

edit:  guess we aren't running out if we just move the goal post.  phew.  that's comforting

Edited by LMaxwell
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1 minute ago, CogitoErgoZoom said:

Flying lately is amazing.  Planes are flying nowhere NEAR capacity.  Even though schedules have been cut drastically.  You can EASILY distance yourself from your fellow passengers even on a regional jet these days because there just isn't a great deal of flying going on with business travel having been replaced by things like Skype and Zoom.  

DED Jr. Fan? 

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33 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

If mask wearing takes a little time to get used to, I think we deserve a little leeway and flexibility.

I see your response comparable to when a local town lowers the speed limit due to increased traffic after several years at a higher limit.  
 

A big difference with this virus than many previous ones is being an asymptomatic carrier.  Another is younger & younger people we’re now identifying as carriers with increased testing.  The time adjustment/leeway (in all public places) may setback flattening the curve several months.

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3 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Or, you can say the cruiselines haven't figured out how to socially distance people which is why everything is canceled thru Sept.

 

The CDC's jot isn't to care about cruiselines or profits...it's to do what it's name says...Control Disease

I have yet to meet a single bureaucrat with even the slightest concern about business profits. Any business.

Some even appear to be celebrating the damage being done to a number of industries, with absolutely no concern.

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