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Posted (edited)

Pumpkin 11 you seem to draw some fire here but maybe it is the way you state some things?  Just trying to be helpful.  There was a study by the Yale University School of Public Health (link below) that reported a period of excess non-COVID deaths in the early stages of the pandemic in March-April in the US as people stayed away from hospitals or were excluded from needed treatments.  I am not sure if that is still the case in some areas but the hospitals now in my area are actively soliciting business since they are financially in very bad shape because people were not being treated and because they invested so much in a surge response (that never happened in my state anyway).  This was an unintended consequence of the highly restrictive pandemic response early on.  But I think patients are mostly being treated for at least critical procedures now and many are getting elective procedures now too in my area.

 

You might need a subscription to the Washington Post or use incognito mode for accessing the article.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/05/02/excess-deaths-during-covid-19/?arc404=true

 

 

Edited by TeeRick
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3 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Pumpkin 11 you seem to draw some fire here but maybe it is the way you state some things?

More like ‘mission accomplished’ through some studied rabble-rousing.

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The article below details a documentary to be shown on U.K. tv - 
Billion Pound Cruises: All At Sea is on ITV at 9pm on Thursday, July 2

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/articles/cruise-industry-documentary-coronavirus-impact-itv/

 

I am aware that some in the USA can access the U.K. services. May be interesting viewing!! I suspect the aim is to put the cruise companies under the spotlight and therefore not supportive of them but this is conjecture on my behalf.

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If people don’t change their attitudes, probably never. The CDC controls when cruises can begin and they have told the public, many times, wash your hands, wear a mask and social distance. Some people think they are bullet proof and some are just so arrogant that no one can tell them what to do.  Follow their guidelines. What have you got to lose? What’s happening now surely isn’t working. What have you got to lose.

If you are waiting for a vaccine or a cure all, by the time it happens, it will probably be too late.

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9 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

If people don’t change their attitudes, probably never. The CDC controls when cruises can begin and they have told the public, many times, wash your hands, wear a mask and social distance. Some people think they are bullet proof and some are just so arrogant that no one can tell them what to do.  Follow their guidelines. What have you got to lose? What’s happening now surely isn’t working. What have you got to lose.

If you are waiting for a vaccine or a cure all, by the time it happens, it will probably be too late.

 

What do you mean... too late?

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18 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

What do you mean... too late?

Most, if not all cruise lines will be bankrupt and either be out of business , or at a greatly reduced volume. I don't even want to think about the medical side of the equation.

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3 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Most, if not all cruise lines will be bankrupt and either be out of business , or at a greatly reduced volume. I don't even want to think about the medical side of the equation.

So if I don't wear a mask (which I do happen to most places btw) then cruising won't resume in a timely fashion and they'll go bankrupt... because people in the USA didn't wear masks... okay... sure.

 

Lots of assumptions and vague correlations in that argument!

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Posted (edited)

I think the point G was making is that if cruises have to wait for a vaccine then it will be a year (at least from now) - by which time they probably will have gone bankrupt - its not really that vague

 

My guess if all goes well re opening up - spring 21(even though we are opening  tourism up here in the EU I now cant see cruising restarting till then as its always an easy target) 

Edited by ighten
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If they get going in 2020 I would be surprised. I just learned I have a tolerance for how much I can stand going out. Shopping with a mask at stores we know aren't going to be busy fine. Eye doctor apt with my face touching lots of stuff pretty stressful. 

 

My concern if we can go on the cruise isn't the cruise itself, it is the plane ride down there. I really think early on planes really helped spread this, but we will never know. So it is going to be a gametime decision for us to go or not in early 2021. Hope that the PIF dates get shifted later to give us more time to make a decision.

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Here in Minnesota, we just hit a telling point. We now have more Covid19 deaths in the last six months, than we had influenza deaths in the last six years.

 

Based on the attitude of so many (none here on CC to be sure) who feel it is their right to live anyway they want and screw the rest of the world ("I'm not changing a damn thing"), I don't see any viable cruising until spring 2021. Also add me to the list of those who are very concerned about flying, driving is not an option.

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1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

Here in Minnesota, we just hit a telling point. We now have more Covid19 deaths in the last six months, than we had influenza deaths in the last six years.

 

Based on the attitude of so many (none here on CC to be sure) who feel it is their right to live anyway they want and screw the rest of the world ("I'm not changing a damn thing"), I don't see any viable cruising until spring 2021. Also add me to the list of those who are very concerned about flying, driving is not an option.

How is going on a cruise screwing the rest of the world? Please explain

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1 hour ago, Mike981 said:

Here in Minnesota, we just hit a telling point. We now have more Covid19 deaths in the last six months, than we had influenza deaths in the last six years.

 

Based on the attitude of so many (none here on CC to be sure) who feel it is their right to live anyway they want and screw the rest of the world ("I'm not changing a damn thing"), I don't see any viable cruising until spring 2021. Also add me to the list of those who are very concerned about flying, driving is not an option.

So you've had almost 1500 people (very tragic of course) and usually about 45,000 die in MN. Definitely lives lost that shouldn't have, but we're not talking huge numbers when we factor in presumed COVID deaths, people that we're already close to dying ect. Not trying to be heartless but the statistics are very favorable!

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6 deaths sparked 10 Congressional investigations over the course of four years.  3,000 deaths put us in a war that's lasted almost 20 years.  But more deaths than WWI in less than 4 months?  No biggie, right?

 

 

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43 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

6 deaths sparked 10 Congressional investigations over the course of four years.  3,000 deaths put us in a war that's lasted almost 20 years.  But more deaths than WWI in less than 4 months?  No biggie, right?

 

 

 

Who said it wasn't a big deal???

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3 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

So you've had almost 1500 people (very tragic of course) and usually about 45,000 die in MN. Definitely lives lost that shouldn't have, but we're not talking huge numbers when we factor in presumed COVID deaths, people that we're already close to dying ect. Not trying to be heartless but the statistics are very favorable!


Ask the families and friends of the seniors who died prematurely how they felt. How do you know they were close to dying? There was a COVID doctor on tv today. He said that the four last patients he lost were between 24 and 47 years old with no previous medical problems.

Yes, you are trying to be heartless otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a insensitive statement.

 

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4 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

So you've had almost 1500 people (very tragic of course) and usually about 45,000 die in MN. Definitely lives lost that shouldn't have, but we're not talking huge numbers when we factor in presumed COVID deaths, people that we're already close to dying ect. Not trying to be heartless but the statistics are very favorable!

One life lost because some can't practice common sense or common decency is to many. 

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4 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

How is going on a cruise screwing the rest of the world? Please explain

 

It's not those going on a cruise, it's today. People who won't take precautions to protect others. And I have no comment on your other statement.

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7 hours ago, Mike981 said:

Here in Minnesota, we just hit a telling point. We now have more Covid19 deaths in the last six months, than we had influenza deaths in the last six years.

 

Based on the attitude of so many (none here on CC to be sure) who feel it is their right to live anyway they want and screw the rest of the world ("I'm not changing a damn thing"), I don't see any viable cruising until spring 2021. Also add me to the list of those who are very concerned about flying, driving is not an option.


Tell me the number of doctors, Health worker and Senior residence employees who died of regular flu/influenza in the last 6 years?

 

Italy had at least 75 doctors who died of Covid.

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8 hours ago, dandee2 said:


Tell me the number of doctors, Health worker and Senior residence employees who died of regular flu/influenza in the last 6 years?

 

Italy had at least 75 doctors who died of Covid.

 

Your post is a good reminder that we should take this seriously.

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11 hours ago, billyu said:

One life lost because some can't practice common sense or common decency is to many. 

But that is conjecture, you cannot prove the social distancing measures are working because they are new measures with a new virus. In fact with the rise in cases it could be said they are not working.

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15 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

6 deaths sparked 10 Congressional investigations over the course of four years.  3,000 deaths put us in a war that's lasted almost 20 years.  But more deaths than WWI in less than 4 months?  No biggie, right?

 

 

As of today the world counts just over 500,000 deaths due to Coronavirus in 6 months and about 128,000 of those in the US.  Yes this is terrible.  Many want to do comparisons to other infectious diseases like influenza.  That is fair in my opinion.  The 1918 influenza pandemic had an estimated 500 million people infected world wide with 50 million deaths and 675,000 deaths in the US.  We do not know the end numbers yet for COVID-19 but very scary to say the least.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html

 

But I think any attempt at a comparison to WWI and also WWII is just not meaningful in my opinion. And to non-US countries and populations the comparison might even be considered an injustice in their countries.  The US was relatively spared in WWI with about 117,000 deaths and also in WWII with just over 400,000 deaths.  So I see the numerical comparison to US WWI deaths and COVID has exceeded that as you point out. Worldwide somewhere between 15-22 million people died in either the military or in civilian populations in WWI and there were somewhere between 70-85 million people that died in WWII.  Look up the figures by country in Wiki or other sources.

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2 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

But that is conjecture, you cannot prove the social distancing measures are working because they are new measures with a new virus. In fact with the rise in cases it could be said they are not working.


I live in what is know as The Greater Toronto Area. With a population of 6.5 million. Yesterday's reported cases where 99.  
 

People have been practicing social distancing wearing masks and not gathering in larger groups for the most part.
 

That's why are numbers are slowly going down.  

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, billyu said:


I live in what is know as The Greater Toronto Area. With a population of 6.5 million. Yesterday's reported cases where 99.  
 

People have been practicing social distancing wearing masks and not gathering in larger groups for the most part.
 

That's why are numbers are slowly going down.  

 

 

 

 

Don't keep feeding the troll. 

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