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Dealing with "Negative Nelly's" regarding Oct 1st cruise plans


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2 hours ago, saminina said:

All those words can be condensed to two.   Common sense.

 

Which does not apply to elected officials.

Nor to individuals who think it is business as usual and do not wear masks, nor social distance.

 

P.S.


Eighteen words

 

 

 

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We are currently in Southern California on a one week business/vacation trip.  Our two flights were both at least 95% full including center seats!   The airports were very busy, with most but not all wearing masks. Very little “social distancing” being observed!

 

So far we have been to two restaurants and both were packed, tables were spaced out more than normal.  The beaches were open and appeared to be very busy, we did not go on the beach and only observed from the car but people were not wearing masks and they were gathering in groups.

 

The pools at our “resort hotel” are packed with families and groups having fun.  No masks except some were observed in the lobby, elevators and hallways.

 

Why am i reporting this?  It is obvious to me that no matter what the news media and the politicians say, people are not going to go back into the “self quarantine” mode!  The new normal appears to be a return to the old normal and to not worry about getting this disease.  I am NOT ADVOCATING for this but I am just reporting what I am seeing.

 

I don’t think the “Nervous  Nellies” are going to win this battle, I think the pandemic is going to run its course and each and every person has to make their own decision about  their health.  I think each of us should respect these decisions and not disrespect them for making a decision to book a cruise.

 

 

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Of course everyone have to respect others' decision, but when you start your post with, and I'm paraphrasing, if you are not on board with us, you are a negative nelly.  Well, there is not much else to go on, but to call out that ridiculous assertion.  

I hope the cruises go as planned, btw.  

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1 hour ago, TRIPACIAN said:

We are currently in Southern California on a one week business/vacation trip.  Our two flights were both at least 95% full including center seats!   The airports were very busy, with most but not all wearing masks. Very little “social distancing” being observed!

 

So far we have been to two restaurants and both were packed, tables were spaced out more than normal.  The beaches were open and appeared to be very busy, we did not go on the beach and only observed from the car but people were not wearing masks and they were gathering in groups.

 

The pools at our “resort hotel” are packed with families and groups having fun.  No masks except some were observed in the lobby, elevators and hallways.

 

Why am i reporting this?  It is obvious to me that no matter what the news media and the politicians say, people are not going to go back into the “self quarantine” mode!  The new normal appears to be a return to the old normal and to not worry about getting this disease.  I am NOT ADVOCATING for this but I am just reporting what I am seeing.

 

I don’t think the “Nervous  Nellies” are going to win this battle, I think the pandemic is going to run its course and each and every person has to make their own decision about  their health.  I think each of us should respect these decisions and not disrespect them for making a decision to book a cruise.

 

 

I am not necessarily saying this to judge you, but when you think your decision to take a cruise is a completely individualized decision that does not affect the rest of the society, you may want to re-think that.  Unless this outbreak magically goes away, cruising will continue to pose a risk of additional infections as well as prolongation of the outbreak, regardless of your belief system.  There is a difference between doing what is "within your rights" and doing the right thing/not doing the wrong thing.

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9 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I am not necessarily saying this to judge you, but when you think your decision to take a cruise is a completely individualized decision that does not affect the rest of the society, you may want to re-think that.  Unless this outbreak magically goes away, cruising will continue to pose a risk of additional infections as well as prolongation of the outbreak, regardless of your belief system.  There is a difference between doing what is "within your rights" and doing the right thing/not doing the wrong thing.

I have to assume you are referring to me with your comments.  What I am pointing out is the reality of what I am seeing on this trip.  Thousands of people are totally ignoring the “guidelines” and going about doing what they think is ok.

 

 I said I am “NOT ADVOCATING “ this behavior, however no one really knows where this is going, we may look back on many of our decisions as wrong.  

Edited by TRIPACIAN
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2 hours ago, TRIPACIAN said:

We are currently in Southern California on a one week business/vacation trip.  Our two flights were both at least 95% full including center seats!   The airports were very busy, with most but not all wearing masks. Very little “social distancing” being observed!

 

So far we have been to two restaurants and both were packed, tables were spaced out more than normal.  The beaches were open and appeared to be very busy, we did not go on the beach and only observed from the car but people were not wearing masks and they were gathering in groups.

 

The pools at our “resort hotel” are packed with families and groups having fun.  No masks except some were observed in the lobby, elevators and hallways.

 

Why am i reporting this?  It is obvious to me that no matter what the news media and the politicians say, people are not going to go back into the “self quarantine” mode!  The new normal appears to be a return to the old normal and to not worry about getting this disease.  I am NOT ADVOCATING for this but I am just reporting what I am seeing.

 

I don’t think the “Nervous  Nellies” are going to win this battle, I think the pandemic is going to run its course and each and every person has to make their own decision about  their health.  I think each of us should respect these decisions and not disrespect them for making a decision to book a cruise.

 

 

Well in our state we are starting to go back a bit and that includes shutting down the bars and reducing restaurant capacity to 50%.  If the trend of the past couple of weeks continues remember ICU's will reach max capacity, there will not be enough health workers to tend to those in our largest cities, elective surgery will stop and I can go on and on and on.  Just look at what New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Michigan, Washington DC, Connecticut, Minnesota, Oregon, California and a ew other places wen through.

 

Let us pray and hope the virus (not the nervous nellies but the virus) does not win because if it does it will result in a catastrophe both to the health and well being of our citizens and an economic impact we have not seen since the great depression.

 

I even saw a big difference today at the supermarket with many more people wearing masks again.

 

I do think that many elected officials will learn from this as will the public.  In other words, we can't go back to the normal as we knew it without a vaccine but if we are careful such as social distancing, wearing masks, washing hands, being creative to allow people to eat at restaurants, go on flights, etc., etc., etc. by not going with 100% occupancy and adhering to what the scientist recommend we may, just get through all this.  Some countries have figured this out although some are getting a second wave but are making adjustments.

 

IMHO it is silly to think we can survive in a business as usual mode.  Like most things not everyone will be on the same sheet of paper but I suspect many will.

 

I do think with the right measures and balanced approach people can travel but near term not the way they are used to in the past and that includes cruising.  Some measures will be transparent to the consumer and some won't.  An example is going through a special entrance that kills germs.  That is less transparent than say using different cleaning products.  I actually think cruise lines can come up with safer environments by having experts from science help them through this than the Mom and Pop restaurant, bar and salon.  Same goes for large hotel chains.  

 

Keith

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53 minutes ago, TRIPACIAN said:

I have to assume you are referring to me with your comments.  What I am pointing out is the reality of what I am seeing on this trip.  Thousands of people are totally ignoring the “guidelines” and going about doing what they think is ok.

 

 I said I am “NOT ADVOCATING “ this behavior, however no one really knows where this is going, we may look back on many of our decisions as wrong.  

As someone who lives in a tourist destination, I can tell you that the locals are just as overzealous to thinking that it's all back to normal.  Restaurants and other stores are voluntarily closing because the clients are non conforming and many businesses are pretending to follow the guidelines to re-open.  Several restaurants have been forced to close because their employees are getting covid. The Merchant's Association I am a member of is all about bringing back tourists but it's all about losing their own businesses if they can't cover their overhead.

 

My great grandmother died of the Spanish Flu in 1918.   I think it's pretty serious stuff and we are all in this pandemic together.  What we do with our dollars, our mental ability to survive this and common sense will all affect the outcome.

 

Edited by ChatKat in Ca.
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7 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

Well in our state we are starting to go back a bit and that includes shutting down the bars and reducing restaurant capacity to 50%.  If the trend of the past couple of weeks continues remember ICU's will reach max capacity, there will not be enough health workers to tend to those in our largest cities, elective surgery will stop and I can go on and on and on.  Just look at what New York, New Jersey, Ohio, Michigan, Washington DC, Connecticut, Minnesota, Oregon, California and a ew other places wen through.

 

Let us pray and hope the virus (not the nervous nellies but the virus) does not win because if it does it will result in a catastrophe both to the health and well being of our citizens and an economic impact we have not seen since the great depression.

 

I even saw a big difference today at the supermarket with many more people wearing masks again.

 

I do think that many elected officials will learn from this as will the public.  In other words, we can't go back to the normal as we knew it without a vaccine but if we are careful such as social distancing, wearing masks, washing hands, being creative to allow people to eat at restaurants, go on flights, etc., etc., etc. by not going with 100% occupancy and adhering to what the scientist recommend we may, just get through all this.  Some countries have figured this out although some are getting a second wave but are making adjustments.

 

IMHO it is silly to think we can survive in a business as usual mode.  Like most things not everyone will be on the same sheet of paper but I suspect many will.

 

I do think with the right measures and balanced approach people can travel but near term not the way they are used to in the past and that includes cruising.  Some measures will be transparent to the consumer and some won't.  An example is going through a special entrance that kills germs.  That is less transparent than say using different cleaning products.  I actually think cruise lines can come up with safer environments by having experts from science help them through this than the Mom and Pop restaurant, bar and salon.  Same goes for large hotel chains.  

 

Keith

I am not disagreeing with you or “psoque” what I am reporting is what I am seeing!

 

We went to the grocery store here in So Cal and everyone we saw were wearing mask, they are required to enter.  What I am reporting is that wherever we see people relaxing and having their version of a good time, all caution is out the wind.  I am afraid that genie is not going back in the bottle.  

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6 minutes ago, TRIPACIAN said:

I am not disagreeing with you or “psoque” what I am reporting is what I am seeing!

 

We went to the grocery store here in So Cal and everyone we saw were wearing mask, they are required to enter.  What I am reporting is that wherever we see people relaxing and having their version of a good time, all caution is out the wind.  I am afraid that genie is not going back in the bottle.  

I know.  In Texas when the Governor first announced that things would start to open it was like people went crazy forgetting that the virus hadn't gone away.  With each passing week it was worse in terms of not wearing masks, no social distancing, etc.  Big change the past few days as this thing now hit close to home.  I actually think New York will be the test in terms of how people act as things open up and then the state closely monitoring things and making adjustments as necessary. 

 

I do think on most things people have a short memory and that applies to most things in life and I've thought this for many years.

 

Keith

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keith...go to HEB....you are required to wear a mask.😀

 

For the most part, I haven’t seen lots of people going crazy in my part of Texas when things started opening up.   I guess it depends where you go and what kind of risk one is willing to take.  In some regards, I feel that the state opened up too soon.  Glad some things have been rolled back and hope things will get better in the next few week.

 

Nancy

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2 hours ago, nancygp said:

keith...go to HEB....you are required to wear a mask.😀

 

For the most part, I haven’t seen lots of people going crazy in my part of Texas when things started opening up.   I guess it depends where you go and what kind of risk one is willing to take.  In some regards, I feel that the state opened up too soon.  Glad some things have been rolled back and hope things will get better in the next few week.

 

Nancy

Nancy, me too.  I am glad they rolled things back.

 

In our city as best I know HEB isn't requiring customers to wear a mask.  They do require them at Travis and Harris Counties.  Today most had  them on although I saw one woman customer who didn't.  Our numbers are ticking up though so hopefully they will require them.  I was  getting to the point where I thought about going back to deliveries.

 

Keith

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Keith,

 

it’s a shame you’re county and or city isn’t requiring face masks in public places.  Even with this policy, there will always be people who don’t adhere, even at HEB.  Personally, I’d rather take some risk and get my own groceries.

 

Nancy

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16 minutes ago, nancygp said:

Keith,

 

it’s a shame you’re county and or city isn’t requiring face masks in public places.  Even with this policy, there will always be people who don’t adhere, even at HEB.  Personally, I’d rather take some risk and get my own groceries.

 

Nancy

Nancy, I agree.  I wish they would require them in my city/county.  While our numbers are pretty good I just think it's a smart thing to do since some don't seem to do it on their own.

 

I like how Costco has required them in all their stores the entire time.  It's important for both the customers and the employees.

 

Keith

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As long as you know the risks, go for it.  My concern would not so much the cruise being cancelled but an outbreak on the ship and being prevented from returning to the US and/or being put in quarantine for weeks.  Having been on the San Diego to Hong Kong back in January - February it was no easy task getting back to the US with multiple flight changes and reservations.  Fortunately there was no covid-19 on the ship and we got back under the wire.  Later, as you know others weren't so lucky.  

 

Richard

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51 minutes ago, saminina said:

What could possibly be the downside of floating around the Caribbean during October?


Someone just said people have short memories and then you just proved their point within minutes.  

 

Remember the ordeal cruisers went through pre-lockdown?  Yeah, everything they went through is the downside.  

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7 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

I know.  In Texas when the Governor first announced that things would start to open it was like people went crazy forgetting that the virus hadn't gone away.  With each passing week it was worse in terms of not wearing masks, no social distancing, etc.  Big change the past few days as this thing now hit close to home....

I was so thankful the County Commissioner of Dallas enforced mask-wearing on June 19. Finally we began to see masks everywhere. Unfortunately, people have to be forced to do the correct (and scientifically proven) thing to help stop the virus. It's so sad, really. How did the U.S. get so dumb? 😪

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1 minute ago, Cruise-y said:

It's so sad, really. How did the U.S. get so dumb?

It did not help that initially the CDC and WHO said don't wear a mask, it is dangerous.  Eventually they did admit they were lying about that, but it cost them a lot of credibility.  People use that error to justify doing what they want.

 

We were told to do what "science" said when there was not yet any real science to support what we were being told.  Now that there is some real data and scientific knowledge about it, "science" has suffered the same loss of credibility.  People pick and choose which recommendations they want to pay any attention to, ignoring that we know more now and some of those were very misguided.

 

Some of it is from being "dumb," but I think a lot more is from being self centered and mistrustful of the authorities.  Still a sad state of affairs, though.

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48 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

We were told to do what "science" said when there was not yet any real science to support what we were being told.  Now that there is some real data and scientific knowledge about it, "science" has suffered the same loss of credibility. 

I don't disagree with anything you said. All are very good points.  However, basic science explains how viruses work, how vaccinations work and how to prevent the spread of viruses. Most of us took these science courses in junior high or high school. Maybe some of us didn't take mathematics classes that define exponential growth (although we should have), but the same logic applies.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Cruise-y said:

I was so thankful the County Commissioner of Dallas enforced mask-wearing on June 19. Finally we began to see masks everywhere. Unfortunately, people have to be forced to do the correct (and scientifically proven) thing to help stop the virus. It's so sad, really. How did the U.S. get so dumb? 😪

Unfortunately, the idea of wearing masks received mixed messages.  The week the science recommended wearing the masks and on the day the task force recommended it the top elected official said three times the CDC recommends it but I am not going to wear it and for some it became a political decision.

 

For me and my wife and for many others politics never entered the equation.  We followed the science.  I recommend everyone do the same. 

 

Keith

 

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I know it hasn’t been everyone’s experience, and I’m not trying to take away from the validity of that situation, but most of us lives in states that are in some mid-phase of reopening that is short of the “Dumb Americans Gone Wild” free-for-all.  I went to a couple of bars in my town about a week ago, and between local regulations and what the business owners are voluntarily implementing to protect their staff, business and guests.  
 

Of course it’s not perfect, and exposes people to more risk than the previous delivery drop/carry-out-cocktail scheme we had going, but it’s an intermediate step to allow people to try to get out again while establishing some safety protocols.  Here’s what both bars had:

 

  • Masks had to be worn when guests weren’t in their seats and drinking.  If you were just socializing after you’ve had any drinks, you were encouraged to put your masks back on, but no one was going crazy with that rule.  It’s kind of like it works on planes, where the vast majority of people seem to have figured it out just fine.
  • Glassware had been replaced with nice disposable cups, that guests largely disposed of themselves to help reduce the contact the staff had with things that guests touched/infected.
  • Tables have been spaced out, as have barstools.  Parties (mostly couples) at the bar could ***** together, but had to be 6’ apart from other parties, and I didn’t see any groups larger than 3 persons at the bar.
  • Barstools and seats were disinfected after each guest, as was the bar and tables.
  • Hand sanitizer dispensers were available at each table and all along the bar.  In both cases the sanitizer was manufactured by local in-town distilleries.
  • Menus have been replaced with QR codes so guests can view them on their own devices, and checks have QR codes on them so guests can pay them from their devices, reducing the number of things the guest and server exchange and handle.  Disposable menus were available in the bar where the menu changes, and laminated menus were disinfected after each use in the other bar for guests that needed menus.
  • Capacities were limited to make sure the distancing steps were maintained.  Guests were turned away in both cases.

Again, no one is pretending that these steps prevent the spread of the virus, and it certainly doesn’t feel like the good old days, but collectively they do help control the spread of the virus to some degree and none of those steps was unpleasant or a real imposition to guests. 
 

If anything, I think the experience showed that most people get that we’re going to have to make small compromises if we’re going to want to safely get out of the house, if we don’t want to be the next spiking stake with crazy, out of control numbers... And of course we’ll adjust these procedures as numbers rise and fall, as we all know they will.

 

Vince

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I have a different take on the mask debate.  I think in the early days the officials had a poor choice of words but their thoughts and their hearts were in the right place.  At the time people were thinking "I'm going to wear a mask to protect myself".  That's not the way it works.  My mask protects you and your mask protects me.  To get protection from a mask requires a pretty sophisticated mask, and in those days those were in very limited supply and NEEDED by front line responders.  I remember when I returned from Perth my fire department had just implemented a policy that crews were to change a good mask only when visibly soiled and to wear a surgical mask over it to protect it from soiling.  It may not have been totally true but telling people not to wear masks then was the right thing to do.

 

The mandate (and it was a mandate in Maryland) came later after somebody came up with the concept that we can make our own masks and that if EVERYBODY wears them we can protect each other.  That's still the concept that we're using today and where it's enforced it's saving lives.

 

Roy

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Absolutely the basic mask protect the other person.

 

This is why it is important we all wear masks so that if one of us is sick we minimize the spread of germs to someone else.

 

The CDC has additional information:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html

 

Medical personnel wear a mask that does help them and others.

 

Roy, I have to disagree with you.  Like us not all officials have marched to the same drummer.

 

Think of Boris Johnson and his attitude before he got COVID-19.

 

I can name several people in many countries including ours who are in elected office who were not supportive of the science or if they were they didn't even bother to set an example for the public to see and even mocked some of this including the wearing of masks.  Others did set a good tone supporting the science and not just talking the talk but actually walking the walk by wearing masks and social distancing.

 

And three times on the day that the task force recommended the masks our Presidents said, the CDD wears a mask but I won't wear it.  That sent a wrong message.  And in one of the briefings he asked a reporter to take their mask off.  

 

Bottom line the message was mixed and that is very sad because some people refused to wear it for this reason.  

 

This virus could care less what your gender, religion, nationality, skin color, or politics affiliation is.  It has one objective.  Spread and conquer.

 

Logic tells me (including science) wearing a mask, social distancing, and washing hands frequently helps a great deal.  It is our medicine.

 

On a related note some of what people are learning will be applicable long after this virus goes away.  If you can avoid hugging others, touching your face, and keep a good distance from others, wash hands often, this will help to minimize the spread of basic viruses as well as other things such as the flu.


Going forward during flu season Anne Marie and I were just talking the other day that we will use masks on flights.  For the past few years we brought masks with us on flights but didn't use them.  We will going forward.

 

Like many things in life a lot of good lessons learned here.

 

We all want to get back to normal but the challenge will be as states get better as some have already and others like my state hopefully will to not turn up the throttle as many did the past month.  The challenge will be to find balance so that the economy can move but we don't keep facing these outbreaks every other month.  The stop and go does not benefit anyone.  It's all about balance right now IMHO.

 

We didn't have to be in the situation we are in now in many states.  Hopefully we won't be in it again..

 

Keith

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Keith, we definitely have had mixed messages.  I don't think the early message we got on masks was one of them though.  With the knowledge we had of masks and the limited supplies we had them, it was a bad idea for individuals to be be taking the supply of scarce PPE away from front line responders.  I think the idea that we could get major herd protection from improvised materials was perhaps the first big breakthrough in the fight against covid in the US.

 

It's sad that our top national figure still does not set a personal example of doing it.  Talk about mixed messages.  Contrast that with the example set by Maryland's governor ALWAYS walking up to the podium with a mask on.

 

Roy

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