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Dealing with "Negative Nelly's" regarding Oct 1st cruise plans


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5 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Presumably the meaning was to pull the mask up to its proper position before sneezing.  I am definitely an advocate of wearing the mask properly even when not sneezing, to cover both nose and mouth. 

 

However, I guess that covering the mouth only is better than refusing to wear a mask altogether, and there are too many in that category even now that our governor has said everyone is "required" to wear a mask in public (with no enforcement).  The last time I went to the grocery story, they had a young man disinfecting the carts, and he did not have a mask on!!!


SusieQf... I am not being cute. Please re-read my posting. It was an honest question Your answer was to put the mask into its proper position. Do you mean that you should sneeze into the mask?

You really did not address my question. 
sheila

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6 hours ago, tipsygirl said:

A hopeful note on attempts to engineer ways to live with the virus.....I just read an article in The Houston Chronicle about a group of researchers at the  University of Houston in The Texas Center for Superconductivity who have developed a new HVAC filter designed to “catch and kill” COVID virus particles. Their results are reported in the peer-reviewed science journal Materials Today Physics. They have financial backing to start production and next step is to find manufacturers to produce them in volume,with the goal to provide the filters at a reasonable cost for schools, hospitals and other facilities and businesses. They anticipate that the filters will cost considerable less than currently used UV technology.

They are also working on a battery powered version that “purify” the area around a worker’s immediate work space.  
......

So science can eventually get us to a better place, but we still need to be patient. The virus doesn’t care that we are tired of this and are ready to travel again. In Texas we are now experiencing what happens when you try to rush things and ignore science and data.

tipsygirl - I agree 100% on patience

 

I just saw an article on that research on a new HVAC filter and here is the link: 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200707134206.htm

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26 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Yes, I meant that you should sneeze into the mask.  It is there to catch droplets.

 

Same here...  I would sooner sneeze into the mask then try to take it off and substitute it with something that's probably less effective at containing the sneeze.

 

As someone who has to wear a mask every day though, this is also why I have spares.  I have a stack of clean cloth masks at home to grab one as I leave, I have a ziplock bag of disposable masks in my backpack at my desk at work (in case the cloth ones are too hot or gets dirty), and a ziplock bag of disposable ones in my truck in case I need a clean one when I'm out somewhere.  It's really easy to be prepared, and a few masks in a bag take up no space whatsoever.  

 

Vince

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On 7/2/2020 at 5:33 PM, Psoque said:

I am not making argument re:  hope vs no hope.  I am just a bit disappointed by this assumption by many that a vaccine will change everything overnight:  I hear people say "I will start traveling as soon as the vaccine is available."  Or "everything will be back to normal when the vaccine is made available"  This is total nonsense.

 

Let me repeat this again.  Let's assume that a vaccine will be available on January 1, 2021.  What could this vaccine do?  There are a few possibilities:

 

1.  The vaccine will protect a percentage (hopefully high percentage) of those vaccinated from ever infected by this coronavirus.

 

2.  The vaccine will NOT prevent infections, but may prevent those infected from becoming symptomatic.

 

3.  The vaccine will just make the symptom less severe (not die, etc.) at best.

 

The best case scenario would be just scenario 1 for everyone who is vaccinated.  However, in real-life observations, it would be a combination of all three scenarios (put simply....there are more scenarios than these three).

 

Obviously, we want the first scenario, but all three and few others are possible.

But what I didn't list in the possibilities is the instantaneous eradication of the virus.

 

Looking at actual observations of successful vaccination programs, we know that these programs can reduce the incidence of the illness.  However this process is going to be very gradual.  Most likely, there will be outbreaks of various extents even after this vaccination is widely available, just like what we have been with other newly introduced vaccines.  I believe Dr. Fauci has eluded to what I just said.  The problem with what we hear from Dr. Fauci is that some of the things he wants to say, he is not allowed to say in the most clear manner.  Also I am not sure where Dr. Fauci came up with 70-75% efficacy....I can only imagine that he either pulled that number out of his behind, or he was strongly urged to say this by someone because he had to be upbeat.  My scientific understanding of what has been going on in the current vaccine development and the science behind it, it is absolutely premature to come up with a number at this time.  I think what he is saying is that efficacy as high as 70-75 % has been seen in some non-live viral vaccines.  We know that some "successful vaccines" have even lower efficacy.  Also, we know that there is a herd immunity effect:  Most vaccines are more effective when the vaccination rate is high.   Based on all of this, just saying "about 75 % efficacy is more of a "theoretical ceiling" of the effectiveness of the vaccine.  In real live, the first generation vaccine may end up much less efficacious.

 

I'm not saying that the sky is falling, or that we are all going to die.  I am just saying that a vaccine, even a very good one, will not solve this problem as quickly or as completely as some may think.

 

Also, it is important that we need to be much better prepared for the next outbreak of something different.  Everyone, including the cruise lines needs to think of creative and innovative ways to be better prepared for the immediate future as well as long-term future.  Just saying "we do everything we can to make you safe at sea" is neither correct or helpful. 

 

How do you know Fauci is not allowed to say something in a "clear" manner?  His advice so far - wear a mask, wash your hands, socially distance - except when he said a mask was not necessary.   

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1 hour ago, almostretired said:

How do you know Fauci is not allowed to say something in a "clear" manner?  His advice so far - wear a mask, wash your hands, socially distance - except when he said a mask was not necessary.   

There are too many instances to name, but the most blatant example is whenever he has to contradict the president he is always making his statements vague enough that he is not contradicting the president.  When he does not call incorrect statements as incorrect, he is confusing the public.  And this, I sincerely believe, is done because he is forced to do so.

 

Another example are the Sunday morning TV blitz he did during the Diamond Princess outbreak.  Some of the statements regarding the general purpose of a quarantine was intentionally inaccurate (he should know better, and he does no better) to protect the integrity of the State Department and the decision it made to evacuate the American citizens in a terribly irresponsible manner.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Psoque said:

There are too many instances to name, but the most blatant example is whenever he has to contradict the president he is always making his statements vague enough that he is not contradicting the president.  When he does not call incorrect statements as incorrect, he is confusing the public.  And this, I sincerely believe, is done because he is forced to do so.

 

Another example are the Sunday morning TV blitz he did during the Diamond Princess outbreak.  Some of the statements regarding the general purpose of a quarantine was intentionally inaccurate (he should know better, and he does no better) to protect the integrity of the State Department and the decision it made to evacuate the American citizens in a terribly irresponsible manner.

 

 

Conjecture at best, as you so clearly stated with the "I sincerely believe" response.  Still, I agree with your assessment of the future of a vaccine.

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5 minutes ago, almostretired said:

Conjecture at best, as you so clearly stated with the "I sincerely believe" response.  Still, I agree with your assessment of the future of a vaccine.

When a well-regarded scientist say things on TV that are blatantly inaccurate, I have to assume that they are not his/her words.  But I guess it takes someone with a decent understanding of the scientific context to make that assessment.  I'm not saying that to say that the general public is not qualified to listen to him.  It's just that there's a lot a bad science being perpetuated, even by Dr. Fauci, and I can't imagine him doing that intentionally.

Edited by Psoque
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Seeing the latest posts regarding a Covid vaccine, I felt I should stick my 2 cents in.  As a physician, I am not anti-pharma and certainly not anti-vaccinations.  However, I just do not see how a Covid vaccine could be deemed safe and effective in such a relatively short time span of just 9 to 12 months and so I would not be getting the vaccine myself until 6 months to a year after they started public vaccinations. With the billions and billions the US government is throwing at several pharma companies, the incentive to cut corners and manipulate data is great.   From my understanding, vaccines take years to produce and then test for safety.  I just do not see how a vaccine could be produced and tested for safety so quickly.  And I say this at the risk of not being allowed to cruise for another year or so. (Right now I am booked on the October 2021 Serenity Amazon cruise--New York to Miami)

 

Marc

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On a slightly different tack, here in the UK our Foreign Office has just declared it currently advises no cruising for UK residents, which means all of our travel insurance, should we cruise, is null and void.  😞 

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23 minutes ago, auldlassie said:

On a slightly different tack, here in the UK our Foreign Office has just declared it currently advises no cruising for UK residents, which means all of our travel insurance, should we cruise, is null and void.  😞 

Yes I had made a comment on another board SS  I  did say  on this board I think page 85 ?? I'm not I negetive Nelly just that I stand by my believes that there will be no cruising this year. I know I don't have the knowledge or expertise as most on this thread but even that said  I can honestly say please come to terms 2020 it's a no go on cruising.belive me I would love to be cruising and should have been on board the symphony in sept😢 but cancelled in April.. just except it and hopefully look forward to 2021...🚢🙏

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We have 3 cruises and a land trip booked for 2021, including  a Crystal cruise in Europe for September 2021. One of the remaining 3 trips is scheduled for April, one in June, and another in August. We booked all before the spread of the virus.(We book our trips at least a year ahead so we can schedule our favorite pet sitter.) We are somewhat hopeful that we will at least be able to safely take the September cruise.We don’t think that it is likely that it will be safe to take the other trips, but we will be thrilled if we are mistaken. We cancelled all 4 of our  trips for  2020 . We love to travel, but do not wish to risk our health, or the health of others should we get infected.  We want to be sure we are healthy to travel when the right time comes. We do not see ourselves as Negative Nelly’s either. We see ourselves as well informed and pragmatic.

In the meantime  we have “wine time” each day to chat about future travels and pretend we are on a cruise. 

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We also have instituted our own happy hour, every evening, similar to going to the Cove before dinner. It’s the closest we expect to be to cruising for a long time. Sometimes we do a Zoom or a FaceTime with friends or relatives, sometimes we just toast each other. Mr. B has been enjoying the fun of finding a 100 calorie snack to go with the bourbon.

 

That having been said, we happen to have two cruises still booked for October of this year, both coincidentally with a final payment date of August 2nd. The plan for us is to pay them both so if they sail, we can be there. Do I think it will happen? No. Is there greater than a zero chance? As of now, yes. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/13/2020 at 10:06 PM, May B said:

We also have instituted our own happy hour, every evening, similar to going to the Cove before dinner. It’s the closest we expect to be to cruising for a long time. Sometimes we do a Zoom or a FaceTime with friends or relatives, sometimes we just toast each other. Mr. B has been enjoying the fun of finding a 100 calorie snack to go with the bourbon.

 

That having been said, we happen to have two cruises still booked for October of this year, both coincidentally with a final payment date of August 2nd. The plan for us is to pay them both so if they sail, we can be there. Do I think it will happen? No. Is there greater than a zero chance? As of now, yes. 

Hi mayb I'm sorry to be on the negative Nelly's thread again but I did have my reservations way back in April when I cancelled my cruise for symphony September sailing and added on  several pages 85 - 138 to mention a few but I know now that  my reservations were correct  wether we  like it or not we have to get cruising 2020 out of our heads & move on !!!!  I have booked ( on SS Oct 2021 which was already booked 2019) so my cancellation sept cruise with crystal I have transferred my deposit over to 2022 sailing

Which if we're not sailing by then  who knows !!!! Keep safe 🙏 

 

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On 7/25/2020 at 12:12 PM, Coral said:

Other cruise lines are cancelling up to December 15th. I think it is inevitable that fall Crystal cruises will be cancelled also.

Which takes us back to the original poster's complaint about "negative nellies" saying that plans to cruise in October are not realistic. Each day that passes it seems that those "negative Nellies" are more and more likely correct.

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41 minutes ago, edgee said:

Which takes us back to the original poster's complaint about "negative nellies" saying that plans to cruise in October are not realistic. Each day that passes it seems that those "negative Nellies" are more and more likely correct.

It appears the Serenity is cancelled through October 22nd:

 

https://www.crystalcruises.com/corona-virus-health-advisory/breaking-news

 

I think the "negative nellies" were more realists than pessimists. I think all of us want normal to return as soon as possible.

Edited by Coral
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28 minutes ago, edgee said:

Which takes us back to the original poster's complaint about "negative nellies" saying that plans to cruise in October are not realistic. Each day that passes it seems that those "negative Nellies" are more and more likely correct.

 At  the risk of getting my head bitten off again ( thread serenity Oct/Nov,/Dec sailings) 

I'm not a negative nelly I just had my opinion which didn't go down to well !!

I had to justify my wording realistic!!! Well after that I was so upset I thought I would not post again!!! But  I am I glass half full & I hope we return to cruising asap but only when it resembles the cruiseing that I have enjoyed over the past 30 years plus!!!

I have been living with a awful non curable cancer myeloma for 7 years so don't anyone tell me I'm negetive!!! I live life to the full,& book cruises way into the future..it keeps me going 🚢 

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Please, let’s not forget that when the Caribbean cruises were first announced, the daily covid numbers in Florida were pretty flat.. They escalated at the end of June. Now, at the end of July, the last ten days are running at 10,000 per day. No cruises can leave out of Florida, under any circumstances. We are very disappointed. 
 

I am a realist, but also an optimist. 
I realize that our Crystal cruise cannot happens until:

1- Florida covid cases must drop dramatically, especially Miami. 
2- CDC approval of sailing procedures and rules. 
That’s the realist part of me. 
The optimist part of me hopes this happens as soon as possible. 
Whenever this happens, I hope we are still alive and able to sail. 
sheila

Edited by Bellaggio Cruisers
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I do believe for everyone's mind and body it is important to look to the future when we can all cruise again.  No one knows for sure when this will be but it will happen. Just like Crystal we've put a stick in the ground as to when we think that might be possible for us.  In our case it's not just when Crystal will sail but when we feel like we can sail.  We are all in different boats based on current health, age, itineraries we want to sail, where we live, whether or not we have had the virus and other factors.  We will begin the planning shortly for when we think we will sail next.  We will plan things a bit differently than we have in the past knowing nothing is sealed in stone.  Then again it's never been a 100% done deal because sometimes the unexpected has happened.  However, we will take extra precautions in case we have to cancel each component of the trip.

 

Like many on this board I do find planning to be part of the fun of cruising and travel.  It's been our therapy for years and more important today just as doing other things (reading, writing, catching up by phone or video with friends and family including people you haven't spoken with in years) is important as well as doing other things including fitness and things around the home to take ones mind off the current situation.  

 

We will let the science play out.  

 

In the meantime we can all help the situation immensely by wearing face masks, social distancing, washing hand thoroughly and frequently and not feeling sorry for ourselves and by avoiding temptation.  The latter two points is like most things "don't cheat".  If one time you meet people indoors it could be that one time when you pick up the virus or someone you know spreads it.  

 

The virus has reenforced a core belief of mine which is not to put off to tomorrow those things you can do today because no one, I repeat no one, knows the future and what is in store for each of us.

 

Stay healthy.  Stay well.  Let's look to the time we can do things we enjoy which for many of us is cruising with Crystal.

 

Keith

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It's all so very sad 😞 but I'm not in the least surprised I knew back in April when I cancelled my cruise.... hope it's not to long before we can all get back to cruising which we all love🚢

Stay safe best wishes from the UK ....

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On 7/26/2020 at 10:53 PM, Keith1010 said:

...more important today just as doing other things (reading, writing, catching up by phone or video with friends and family including people you haven't spoken with in years) is important as well as doing other things including fitness and things around the home to take ones mind off the current situation.  

 

The virus has reenforced a core belief of mine which is not to put off to tomorrow those things you can do today because no one, I repeat no one, knows the future and what is in store for each of us.

 

Stay healthy.  Stay well.  Let's look to the time we can do things we enjoy which for many of us is cruising with Crystal.

 

Keith

I think you have put it nicely Keith, re finding/having other things to do during this uncertain time. I for one have considered going on car trips with my MINI club that I might have said "there is always next year" .I am also considering a road trip to my favorite place in the  lower 48 , and that is  the Jackson Hole, Tetons, and Yellowstone  Park area .For those of you who have never been, I ca just say there is no place like it in the world IMHO(I am biased, perhaps, since both my Dad and Myself spent a summer (in my dads case 3) working inside Yellowstone national Park on the lake) it is easy to social distance in the park, and though some things are best seen on foot, it is still doable by car, and highly recommend it.. If  river cruises here in the US start up in 2021, I really think I will take one. A lot of us do not spend enough time traveling in our own country!

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