ITV 2 July 2100 - Billion Pound Cruise Industry: All at Sea

[Selbourne]

2 hours ago, Bazrat said:

reading some of the comments on here from people who believe cruising is now dangerous if that is what they think i'm ok with that there life there choice will i cruise again yes we have 3 booked,are we taking a risk with our health and well being i don't think we are but that is our choice, on a previous thread i mentioned the fact that this site does not represent the majority of cruisers mostly a small band who have done lots of cruises so there interest in cruising in my view is not as great as newcomers like us,i just look at the amount of empty spaces left for next year there mostly fully booked.

Personally, I am pleased that a lot of people take the same view as you. If everyone took the same view as us (that cruising won’t be safe enough for us until we are vaccinated) then there would probably be no cruise industry left by the time that we are happy to go again. People like yourselves will hopefully ensure that there is something left for the rest of us to enjoy in a year or two from now.
 

I wouldn’t read anything into the level of bookings for 2021 though. The vast majority of bookings would have been made prior to the crisis with tiny deposits, and there is no point in customers doing anything about those bookings until much closer to sail date when the position is clearer. Also, lots of people are taking advantage of P&O’s flexible alterations policy and just switching from 2020 to a comparable cruise in 2021 as a placeholder. If things haven’t returned to normal by next year then I anticipate a lot of people either cancelling or further postponing. 

[Bazrat]

23 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Personally, I am pleased that a lot of people take the same view as you. If everyone took the same view as us (that cruising won’t be safe enough for us until we are vaccinated) then there would probably be no cruise industry left by the time that we are happy to go again. People like yourselves will hopefully ensure that there is something left for the rest of us to enjoy in a year or two from now.
 

I wouldn’t read anything into the level of bookings for 2021 though. The vast majority of bookings would have been made prior to the crisis with tiny deposits, and there is no point in customers doing anything about those bookings until much closer to sail date when the position is clearer. Also, lots of people are taking advantage of P&O’s flexible alterations policy and just switching from 2020 to a comparable cruise in 2021 as a placeholder. If things haven’t returned to normal by next year then I anticipate a lot of people either cancelling or further postponing. 

We are not going on holiday to save the industry or to save it for others we genuinely believe that we will be safe, you chose not to cruise till there is a vaccine that’s your choice.

Two ways to look at next year’s bookings your view it’s cheap so people just book or ours there’s a vast majority who view the current situation and believe it will get better and want to cruise hence why the prices are going up.
 

[Selbourne]

29 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

We are not going on holiday to save the industry or to save it for others we genuinely believe that we will be safe, you chose not to cruise till there is a vaccine that’s your choice.

Two ways to look at next year’s bookings your view it’s cheap so people just book or ours there’s a vast majority who view the current situation and believe it will get better and want to cruise hence why the prices are going up.
 

I think you may be confusing me with someone else. I have never said that next years prices are cheap. Far from it. They appear to have been deliberately inflated (certainly compared to launch prices) in order to render the ‘extra’ 25% OBC worthless. The ploy has worked as a lot of people have accepted the FCC ‘incentive’ not realising that it’s no incentive at all. Not us. We opted for a full refund. We may well book a Summer 2022 cruise using the small amount of FCC that we had to take (our deposit for another cruise) but we shall book at launch, which has always been the best time to book for the lowest prices. If P&O changes tack and launch prices aren’t reasonable then we shall continue to kick the can down the road or just not book at all and forfeit the FCC (which we had written off in our minds anyway).

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, Selbourne said:

I didn’t think that she was anti the cruise industry at all, merely reporting facts. 

Exactly - freedom of the press to state the facts.

[wowzz]

6 hours ago, Selbourne said:

Agreed and I would add that I find the black and white attitude that those of us who aren’t prepared to cruise in the near future are therefore intent on locking ourselves up to be rather odd. In our case we are very keen to revert to normal life ASAP. That includes pubs and restaurants that we know and like and some holidays. However, cruising is a proven high risk activity in a Covid 19 world and not a risk we are prepared to take any time soon. I can’t think of many other things that we are reluctant to recommence, so we are certainly not locking ourselves up, but neither do we have our heads in the sand or our hands over our ears singing La La La loudly because of our desire to get back on a cruise ship. We have watched the crisis in detail and listened to all the evidence and concluded that cruising is some way off being a safe thing to do. That’s not ‘locking ourselves up’ or being paranoid or scared of taking any risk in life whatsoever, it’s just common sense based on the relative level of risk. 

Selbourne,  your attitude is similar to ours.  We are quite happy to go out and about, shopping, walking etc, and soon eating and drinking, in order to get the local economy moving  again. I've been going around the local shops since the epidemic started, and have never worried.

However, I will not get on a ship for a good while - far too many people in too small a space, even for a sceptic like me.

We're off to a villa in Lanzarote in November - we have a week booked on Saga in March next year and then Arcadia in March 2022, both of which we will probably move.

If the cruise lines properly implement anti CV19 precautions,  the cruise experience will be so awful as to be a total waste of money. 

Why anyone is even thinking of booking a cruise at the monent is beyond me.

 

 

[Bazrat]

Lanzarote is nice that time of year just out of interest how did the pandemic spread so fast around the world, could it be by the very mode of transport Your using to go on holiday,you would not get me on a plane for 4.5 hrs with other people breathing recycled air.

[janny444]

18 hours ago, Son of Anarchy said:

Indeed.  We all have a choice.  Either move on and carry on with life in a way that is comfortable for your own circumstances or stay at home till the inevitable happens.

 

You can get killed by someone elses actions over which you have no control.  It happens....  Remember Mike Hailsworth, IOM TT champ and F1 driver?, died in a road traffic collision whilst collecting the family Friday night fish & chips; Gary Mason, former British Heavyweight boxer?  Died whilst riding a push bike after being hit by a van.

 

Its a dangerous world out there, if you want to survive, stay at home and hope your house doesn't catch fire....  Close friends of ours house caught fire in the middle of the night.  Luckily they all got out safely.  Big investigation could only establish the that the fire probably started under their decking.  

 

So with those wonderful thoughts in mind, hopefully we will be boarding Iona (if PandO pay for her!) in November.

Hi....I am of the same mind as you....life is for living and " the grim reaper" can call at any time so we make the most of time and opportunities BUT I am also a " free flowing spirit" who  likes to come and go as the mood takes me and maybe change my mind at the last minute so I would find the restrictions and regimentation on board that will be introduced an absolute nightmare and having to pay for that experience is an absolute no no for me ....it certainly wouldn't resemble a holiday ....more of an ordeal and endurance test....just not for me.

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, Bazrat said:

Lanzarote is nice that time of year just out of interest how did the pandemic spread so fast around the world, could it be by the very mode of transport Your using to go on holiday,you would not get me on a plane for 4.5 hrs with other people breathing recycled air.

I've had the debate about air filtration systems on aircraft before, so won't reopen it again. Undoubtedly people moving from one country to another spread the disease, but in the main, the disease was transferred by interaction with other people on the ground, rather than in the aircraft itself.

At the height of the epidemic,  I wouldn't have got on an aircraft, but in the current situation  I see no reason to live like a hermit.  Millions of Brits are using the train, the tube and buses every day - the air on an aircraft is much cleaner than on those forms if transport.  

As has been said before, life is for living, and there  is a risk to everything.  If you want to stay at home for the rest of your life,  fine, but this disease is not going away, so you need to take a measured view of the risk. My view is that the most dangerous part of my holiday will  be driving to the airport. 

[terrierjohn]

9 hours ago, wowzz said:

Selbourne,  your attitude is similar to ours.  We are quite happy to go out and about, shopping, walking etc, and soon eating and drinking, in order to get the local economy moving  again. I've been going around the local shops since the epidemic started, and have never worried.

However, I will not get on a ship for a good while - far too many people in too small a space, even for a sceptic like me.

We're off to a villa in Lanzarote in November - we have a week booked on Saga in March next year and then Arcadia in March 2022, both of which we will probably move.

If the cruise lines properly implement anti CV19 precautions,  the cruise experience will be so awful as to be a total waste of money. 

Why anyone is even thinking of booking a cruise at the monent is beyond me.

 

 

I doubt that the CLIA will agree to follow all the EU cruise proposals wowzz/Selbourne, for the very reasons you suggest, that they would seriously impact on the enjoyment of a cruise.  Maybe it's a bit too early to decide how restrictive things will be, perhaps we should wait for the the CLIA to put forward their ideas before we start writing off cruising until a vaccine is available.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt that the CLIA will agree to follow all the EU cruise proposals wowzz/Selbourne, for the very reasons you suggest, that they would seriously impact on the enjoyment of a cruise.  Maybe it's a bit too early to decide how restrictive things will be, perhaps we should wait for the the CLIA to put forward their ideas before we start writing off cruising until a vaccine is available.

I don't think that the various powers that be will care one jot about the "enjoyment" factor. All they will worry about is the safety factor.

I'm not necessarily writing off the cruise industry, but even modest requirements such a wearing masks at all times, restricted meal times etc, will make it an unappealing holiday for me personally. Others may be prepared to accept the restrictions, and carry on cruising.

[Bazrat]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt that the CLIA will agree to follow all the EU cruise proposals wowzz/Selbourne, for the very reasons you suggest, that they would seriously impact on the enjoyment of a cruise.  Maybe it's a bit too early to decide how restrictive things will be, perhaps we should wait for the the CLIA to put forward their ideas before we start writing off cruising until a vaccine is available.

Your correct in your assessment nobody on this site knows what if any restrictions will apply,were perfectly happy to wait to find out and if good to go enjoy our cruise this year.

[terrierjohn]

10 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I don't think that the various powers that be will care one jot about the "enjoyment" factor. All they will worry about is the safety factor.

I'm not necessarily writing off the cruise industry, but even modest requirements such a wearing masks at all times, restricted meal times etc, will make it an unappealing holiday for me personally. Others may be prepared to accept the restrictions, and carry on cruising.

You have no faith in the power, or bribing abilities, of the lobbyists wowzz.

[Harry Peterson]

15 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I doubt that the CLIA will agree to follow all the EU cruise proposals wowzz/Selbourne, for the very reasons you suggest, that they would seriously impact on the enjoyment of a cruise.  Maybe it's a bit too early to decide how restrictive things will be, perhaps we should wait for the the CLIA to put forward their ideas before we start writing off cruising until a vaccine is available.

Given, John, that the current FCO advice means that anyone over 70 or with various underlying health conditions will be uninsured if they choose to cruise, maybe the cruise companies are banking on a much younger market who will be less inclined to compare what’s on offer now with pre-CV days.
 

British nationals aged 70 and over, and those with underlying health conditions such as chronic diseases and diabetes, have been advised not to travel on cruise ships in response to the coronavirus outbreak.
 

Harry

[Bazrat]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Given, John, that the current FCO advice means that anyone over 70 or with various underlying health conditions will be uninsured if they choose to cruise, maybe the cruise companies are banking on a much younger market who will be less inclined to compare what’s on offer now with pre-CV days.
 

British nationals aged 70 and over, and those with underlying health conditions such as chronic diseases and diabetes, have been advised not to travel on cruise ships in response to the coronavirus outbreak.
 

Harry

Might be a good thing moving to the younger market you will have less debates about falling standards etc.

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Might be a good thing moving to the younger market you will have less debates about falling standards etc.

The over 70's advice can change just as quickly as the essential travel advice did yesterday. Problem is, much of the younger market won't have the cash, or inclination.

[terrierjohn]

13 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Given, John, that the current FCO advice means that anyone over 70 or with various underlying health conditions will be uninsured if they choose to cruise, maybe the cruise companies are banking on a much younger market who will be less inclined to compare what’s on offer now with pre-CV days.
 

British nationals aged 70 and over, and those with underlying health conditions such as chronic diseases and diabetes, have been advised not to travel on cruise ships in response to the coronavirus outbreak.
 

Harry

But that will change Harry as we are already seeing the blanket advice on travel changing, with the opening of the travel corridors.  No one expects any P&O cruises until mid October at the earliest so there is a good 3 months for lots more changes to be announced. 

[Bazrat]

5 minutes ago, zap99 said:

The over 70's advice can change just as quickly as the essential travel advice did yesterday. Problem is, much of the younger market won't have the cash, or inclination.

Branson thought they would have the inclination and as for the cash I could not answer for the younger generation 

[davecttr]

I see the daily wail had an illustrated guide to 'new' cruising and I got the impression that it was now allowed. checked the GOV sites and the advice to over 70's etc has not changed, in fact confusion of message as usual. I must say I don't like the idea of oldies being separated from the youngsters.

 

So I will take my own advice. Wait until cruising has re started and decide on a cruise by cruise basis whether to pay the final amount

January cruise. £80 deposit October decision

May cruise £97 deposit February decision

September cruise £115 deposit June decision.

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, Bazrat said:

Branson thought they would have the inclination and as for the cash I could not answer for the younger generation 

Virgin cruises will appeal to a very small niche market, not the types who would consider a P&O cruise.

[Bazrat]

5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Virgin cruises will appeal to a very small niche market, not the types who would consider a P&O cruise.

True I would think they would be more inclined to pick an itinerary rather than a particular cruise line

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, zap99 said:

The over 70's advice can change just as quickly as the essential travel advice did yesterday. Problem is, much of the younger market won't have the cash, or inclination.

It may, but the hard fact remains that the older you get the greater the risk of serious outcomes from Covid.  The risk of death is around 600 times greater for 65-75 year olds than for under 25s, and 1500 times greater for 75-85 year olds.

 

[zap99]

27 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It may, but the hard fact remains that the older you get the greater the risk of serious outcomes from Covid.  The risk of death is around 600 times greater for 65-75 year olds than for under 25s, and 1500 times greater for 75-85 year olds.

 

Statistically, most people die right at the end of there life.🤔

[zap99]

55 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Virgin cruises will appeal to a very small niche market, not the types who would consider a P&O cruise.

Do  people think 4/5 day cruises from Miami will attract many P&O customers?.

[terrierjohn]

5 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Statistically, most people die right at the end of there life.🤔

 

35 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

It may, but the hard fact remains that the older you get the greater the risk of serious outcomes from Covid.  The risk of death is around 600 times greater for 65-75 year olds than for under 25s, and 1500 times greater for 75-85 year olds.

 

Since we have no accurate stats to tell us how many people had covid, but were asymptomatic, in each age group it is very difficult to know the accurate percentage of those who died in each category.  Whilst not wishing to downplay how serious this is for the elderly and at risk category, I do suspect that Harry's data shows a worst case scenario, and reality could be a lot better.

[Harry Peterson]

4 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

 

Since we have no accurate stats to tell us how many people had covid, but were asymptomatic, in each age group it is very difficult to know the accurate percentage of those who died in each category.  Whilst not wishing to downplay how serious this is for the elderly and at risk category, I do suspect that Harry's data shows a worst case scenario, and reality could be a lot better.

Officially published US statistics.  They won’t obviously be absolutely accurate, but the broad thrust is unlikely to be far out.  It’s very dramatically more dangerous for older people than younger people, which is why the Foreign Office advises over 70s not to cruise, which invalidates any insurance.