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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

With all the waste we produce from all the stuff we buy maybe a change is needed😂. Perhaps this Pandemic might be a good time to reevalute an economy based on accumulating more things😜.

 

I assume through all your "tears of joy" and "sticking your tongue out," you still have a bit of compassion for those who are experiencing economic pain from COVID. 

 

Think of all those unemployed cruise staff who used to serve and help you accumulate experiences with a smile that now have nothing and are living in countries without the kinds of social programs available to you.  

Edited by SelectSys

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3 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Think of all those unemployed cruise staff who used to serve and help you accumulate experiences with a smile that now have nothing and are living in countries without the kinds of social programs available to you.  

This may be an assumption. Over the years, more than one cruise staff told me they managed to save enough money working on cruise ships to buy a house back in Philippine for their family.

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12 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

This may be an assumption. Over the years, more than one cruise staff told me they managed to save enough money working on cruise ships to buy a house back in Philippine for their family.

 

I am sure that some of the these workers have been able to purchase a home.  However, don't think these homes are what you might find in your neighborhood.  Also, owning a home doesn't make you independently wealthy and imply food on the table, schooling for children, health care, caring for parents and any number of expenses they might have just to make "ends meet."  

 

Look at these stories in the Philippine press about the impacts of lost overseas income on individuals and the country at large:

 

https://news.abs-cbn.com/business/06/11/20/cash-remittances-decline-in-march-with-drop-in-ofw-deployment

 

The Philippines is one of the largest recipients of remittances in the world. Money sent home by Filipinos is a major driver of domestic consumption and, in 2018, it accounted for 9.7 percent of gross domestic product, according to the BSP. 

The COVID-19 pandemic however has hit many of the countries where millions of overseas Filipino workers are deployed, putting their lives and jobs at risk. 

 

https://news.abs-cbn.com/news/05/25/20/300000-ofws-to-return-to-philippines-due-to-coronavirus-pandemic-dilg-chief

 

(During the whole year, we are expecting that 300,000 OFWs will come home. The whole world is under lockdown. They are sending home migrant workers, not just from the Philippines, but other countries, too. This is our chance to show the importance of OFWs, when they get home.) ...Cash remittances from OFWS hit a record $30 billion (P1.5 trillion) in 2019, helping drive consumption 

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6 hours ago, SelectSys said:

Think of all those unemployed cruise staff who used to serve and help you accumulate experiences with a smile that now have nothing and are living in countries without the kinds of social programs available to you.  

 

You misinterpreted what I meant by "things*. I am talking about physical stuff, after all you can't throw away a cruise experience (well not in the physical sense anyway😉). And considering we in developed nations like to send our rubbish to developing nations I'm sure they would appreciate our compassion in not sending our garbage to them🙄. All change is pain, doesn't mean some aren't needed.

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6 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You misinterpreted what I meant by "things*. I am talking about physical stuff, after all you can't throw away a cruise experience (well not in the physical sense anyway😉). And considering we in developed nations like to send our rubbish to developing nations I'm sure they would appreciate our compassion in not sending our garbage to them🙄. All change is pain, doesn't mean some aren't needed.

+1000  

There will always be people who care about having the latest greatest fashion item, technology, best luxury car, biggest most stylish home etc etc etc. 

 

However, I think the pandemic and associated financial pain will also make some people reassess whether experiences are more valuable than things and also whether a return to a more simple/less consumer driven life is desirable.  I certainly came to that conclusion a few years ago - I love the experience of travel and I would rather spend money on a cruise than buying the latest $5000 television (for example).  I like my decrepit house on a large block with a messy garden and weedy vegetable patch to muck around in.

 

It will be interesting to see what impacts on people's spending patterns come out of all this.       

 

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21 minutes ago, lucymorgan said:

I like my decrepit house on a large block with a messy garden and weedy vegetable patch to muck around in.

I just love this sentence and know I would like you a bunch for writing it. Thanks.

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13 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You misinterpreted what I meant by "things*. I am talking about physical stuff, after all you can't throw away a cruise experience (well not in the physical sense anyway😉). And considering we in developed nations like to send our rubbish to developing nations I'm sure they would appreciate our compassion in not sending our garbage to them🙄. All change is pain, doesn't mean some aren't needed.

 

Not really, I just wanted to remind you and others on this site who seem to be largely insulated from pain and suffering.   I am sure all the workers at Brooks Brothers and other companies being impacted aren't winking with cute emoticons at this point.   You know the old line about the difference between an economic recession and depression as it relates to when someone else looses their livelihood.

 

What a classic line - the compassion associated with keeping people in poverty.  Why don't people in the lesser developed world deserve/warrant a better life with the material items you enjoy?  What rubbish would you withhold from those who desire your level of livelihood?  

 

The whole basis of the Australian economy is sending  gas, coal, metal,  etc to countries like China that make the "crap."   Do you consider those exports to be garbage or one that affords you and the rest of your nation a great quality of life?   

 

Yes, change is painful and many are coming.  We can debate on what changes are required, but to suggest that we deny opportunity to others to have a better life is not one that I would not support.

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13 hours ago, lucymorgan said:

+1000  

There will always be people who care about having the latest greatest fashion item, technology, best luxury car, biggest most stylish home etc etc etc. 

 

However, I think the pandemic and associated financial pain will also make some people reassess whether experiences are more valuable than things and also whether a return to a more simple/less consumer driven life is desirable.  I certainly came to that conclusion a few years ago - I love the experience of travel and I would rather spend money on a cruise than buying the latest $5000 television (for example).  I like my decrepit house on a large block with a messy garden and weedy vegetable patch to muck around in.

 

It will be interesting to see what impacts on people's spending patterns come out of all this.       

 

 

I totally agree with this perspective.  Losing one's obsession with things is a sign of maturing.  The most important commodity anyone has is their time and how they spend it.  To me things like having a older car and smaller house with limited upkeep frees up time to create more experiences and reduce overall stress.  

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

You misinterpreted what I meant by "things*. I am talking about physical stuff, after all you can't throw away a cruise experience (well not in the physical sense anyway😉). And considering we in developed nations like to send our rubbish to developing nations I'm sure they would appreciate our compassion in not sending our garbage to them🙄. All change is pain, doesn't mean some aren't needed.

 

That is great.  Unless you happen to be one of the people who makes their living by making or selling those "things".

And one man's (country's) trash is another man's (country's) treasure, so I doubt if the countries who are paying to get stuff we discard and make good use of will feel the 'compassion' in being deprived.

Edited by Toofarfromthesea

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1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

I totally agree with this perspective.  Losing one's obsession with things is a sign of maturing.  The most important commodity anyone has is their time and how they spend it.  To me things like having a older car and smaller house with limited upkeep frees up time to create more experiences and reduce overall stress.  

 


I agree.  As I have gotten older, I have realized that experiences are more meaningful than material items.  Less is more, in a way.   What really brings happiness to my life aren't items I can buy.  Cruising is an experience that I hope to get back to in the near future.  I also feel compassion for the hard workers on the ships and those on the islands and know that they need things to get back to normal for their survival.

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1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

What a classic line - the compassion associated with keeping people in poverty.  Why don't people in the lesser developed world deserve/warrant a better life with the material items you enjoy?  What rubbish would you withhold from those who desire your level of livelihood?  

 

The whole basis of the Australian economy is sending  gas, coal, metal,  etc to countries like China that make the "crap."   Do you consider those exports to be garbage or one that affords you and the rest of your nation a great quality of life?   

 

You do realise I am taking about actual garbage? You know the stuff you put in your bin. 

 

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

I totally agree with this perspective.  Losing one's obsession with things is a sign of maturing.  The most important commodity anyone has is their time and how they spend it.  To me things like having a older car and smaller house with limited upkeep frees up time to create more experiences and reduce overall stress.  

 

You just agreed with the point I was making? I feel like I am writing one thing and you are reading something else. This is so weird. 

 

18 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

That is great.  Unless you happen to be one of the people who makes their living by making or selling those "things".

 

If we keep making VCRs it would keep people in work. Things stop being made all the time, that is the nature of manufacturing.

 

18 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

And one man's (country's) trash is another man's (country's) treasure, so I doubt if the countries who are paying to get stuff we discard and make good use of will feel the 'compassion' in being deprived.

 

Actually the citizens of those countries like Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia are protesting for the rubbish to stop coming. China banned so called recycled plastic because what we sent was absolute crap. It is as much rubbish to them as it is to us. 

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2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

If we keep making VCRs it would keep people in work. Things stop being made all the time, that is the nature of manufacturing.

 

I could say that's also the nature of something like cruising. Maybe it will away and be replaced by something.

 

2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

Actually the citizens of those countries like Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia are protesting for the rubbish to stop coming.

Absolutely true. We donate to our local SPCA thrift store and we don't donate a single item that's not usable. No stained clothes, small appliance that don't work. Hopefully things that locals need/want.

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4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

1 - You do realise I am taking about actual garbage? You know the stuff you put in your bin. 

 

 

2 - You just agreed with the point I was making? I feel like I am writing one thing and you are reading something else. This is so weird. 

 

 

3 - If we keep making VCRs it would keep people in work. Things stop being made all the time, that is the nature of manufacturing.

 

 

4 - Actually the citizens of those countries like Nigeria, Malaysia and Indonesia are protesting for the rubbish to stop coming. China banned so called recycled plastic because what we sent was absolute crap. It is as much rubbish to them as it is to us. 

 

1 - I did not.  I thought you were using the word in the informal sense as relating to poor quality which so many people seem to purchase so much of these days.  

 

2 -- I was agreeing with a post made by lucymorgan.  Regardless,  why does this perspective surprise you?  Do my words suggest that I am a voracious consumer of meaningless stuff?  

 

3 - Of course all products go through lifecycles and things change.  That is the whole nature of capitalism outlined by Joesph Schumpter and his "Creative Destruction."  

 

4 - Good for them.  Every country should have the right to follow what they perceive is their own self interest although where I live this perspective is becoming an archaic concept and subject to cancellation.

 

 

1 hour ago, clo said:

Absolutely true. We donate to our local SPCA thrift store and we don't donate a single item that's not usable. No stained clothes, small appliance that don't work. Hopefully things that locals need/want.

 

I actually buy about lots of my clothes (now dominated by shorts and casual shirts) at a high end consignment shop near where I live.  You can buy almost new and sometimes new things at 70% off retail.   

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20 hours ago, lucymorgan said:

+1000  

There will always be people who care about having the latest greatest fashion item, technology, best luxury car, biggest most stylish home etc etc etc. 

 

However, I think the pandemic and associated financial pain will also make some people reassess whether experiences are more valuable than things and also whether a return to a more simple/less consumer driven life is desirable.  I certainly came to that conclusion a few years ago - I love the experience of travel and I would rather spend money on a cruise than buying the latest $5000 television (for example).  I like my decrepit house on a large block with a messy garden and weedy vegetable patch to muck around in.

 

It will be interesting to see what impacts on people's spending patterns come out of all this.       

 

 

If downsizing, driving old cars, not buying stuff, is what makes someone happy then it is relatively easy to do.  Or, at least a lot easier than constant purchases of the latest fashion, cars, etc.  As you say, it will be interesting to see if there is a shift in lifestyle.  

 

But,  I just don't get the need to proselytize (not referring to you).  How someone wants to spend their time or money is up to them.   If someone wants to pay a lot for big houses, logos or whatever it is no skin off my nose.     

 

PS: Doing some deferred maintenance, pulling weeds & planting vege's is an excellent activity during our coronavirus lock down.  😃😄

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

2 -- I was agreeing with a post made by lucymorgan.  Regardless,  why does this perspective surprise you?  Do my words suggest that I am a voracious consumer of meaningless stuff?  

 

But that was the point I was making in my original post, that the pandemic might be a good time to re evaluate our behaviour and consumerism habits which you objected to and yet someone says the same thing with different words and you agree with that. This makes it very confusing to me. 

 

Quote

1 - I did not. I thought you were using the word in the informal sense as relating to poor quality which so many people seem to purchase so much of these days. 

 

Well to be fair it is probably a practice that needs to be stopped. In Australia our charities spend $13 million a year to dump clothes that are donated because fast fashion is so poor quality even they can't re use them. 75% of people throw away clothes in the first year they buy them and usually more than 10 items a year (and with all the online shopping due to lock downs this year will probably be higher) . It is estimated to be about 6000kg every 10min. I am all for rising people out of poverty but you have to wonder if we do those countries any favours by giving then our bad habits and therefore the problems associated with it. You have to wonder what they will do with their garbage when we can't keep with our own. 

Edited by ilikeanswers

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Well this is an interesting discussion.  🤔😀

I agree it is up to people what they spend their money on.  

I once won thousands of dollars worth of luxury Italian leather travel goods (Versace, Bally, Dolce and Gabanna).   I didn't use them because 1.  they were too 'bling' for me and 2. I thought people might think they were fake because the rest of my outfit wasn't to the same standard.  🤣 

 

My sister and mother told me to keep them for my daughter to use in the future.  I did.  However, years later that they are still up in the cupboard as she is much more interested in different types of leather goods - for example a $5000 Prestige Italia saddle for her horse.   That horse had more clothes (and much more expensive clothes) than she did 😄     

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59 minutes ago, lucymorgan said:

 That horse had more clothes (and much more expensive clothes) than she did 😄     

I used to ride so I totally get it. LOL.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, clo said:

I used to ride so I totally get it. LOL.

Sadly, her beloved horse died suddenly last year from sand colic - probably caused by the drought here in Australia.  He was a wonderful first horse, taught her so much and left a lasting legacy and beautiful memories.  He really was a great dude 🥰

 

She now has a new baby horse and a lot of excitement about the future with him.  So that means a renewed zest for life (which is what I really care about for her) and more money spent at horse gear retailers and I guess that is good for the economy 🙂

 

I will also be able to get her to bring his horse poo home for the messy garden LOL  🐴

Edited by lucymorgan

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12 hours ago, lucymorgan said:

Well this is an interesting discussion.  🤔😀

I agree it is up to people what they spend their money on.  

I once won thousands of dollars worth of luxury Italian leather travel goods (Versace, Bally, Dolce and Gabanna).   I didn't use them because 1.  they were too 'bling' for me and 2. I thought people might think they were fake because the rest of my outfit wasn't to the same standard.  🤣 

 

My sister and mother told me to keep them for my daughter to use in the future.  I did.  However, years later that they are still up in the cupboard as she is much more interested in different types of leather goods - for example a $5000 Prestige Italia saddle for her horse.   That horse had more clothes (and much more expensive clothes) than she did 😄     

 

If it is still in good condition try throwing those leather articles on eBay, might get enough to buy a new saddle😄

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Posted (edited)

We are spending less in the short term.  In the longer term our spending will also be less, but not substantially less.   Travel our largest variable expense.  What we save on travel over the next 6-12-18 months will be spent assuming good health.  Our travel list is changing to more exotic trips because we have so much research time on our hands.  Really, only restaurant and entertainment is down for us.   We have certainly increased our on line buying.

 

We have used this time to review all of our recurring expenses.   Cable/internet, insurances, credit card fees....everything that is billed monthly and tends to get overlooked.  Some re-negotiation for better rates, more vale going forward.   Significant longer term savings compared to the short amount of time it took to review and negotiate.

Edited by iancal

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15 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But that was the point I was making in my original post, that the pandemic might be a good time to re evaluate our behaviour and consumerism habits which you objected to and yet someone says the same thing with different words and you agree with that. This makes it very confusing to me. 

 

 

Tone is hard to pick up on a web site and what I sense here, perhaps wrongly, is that many aren't all that sensitive to the plight of others who are facing real economic and health insecurity these days - especially those outside of high income world.  Perhaps it is because of my lack of understanding of the use of emoticons.  

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4 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

Tone is hard to pick up on a web site and what I sense here, perhaps wrongly, is that many aren't all that sensitive to the plight of others who are facing real economic and health insecurity these days - especially those outside of high income world.  Perhaps it is because of my lack of understanding of the use of emoticons.  

 

What I have learnt in online communication don't ever assume, take all words at face value and ask for clarification if unsure🤗 because you are right tone is hard to pick up and even though we both come from English speaking countries we do use it a little differently to each other which may skew meaning. 

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2 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If it is still in good condition try throwing those leather articles on eBay, might get enough to buy a new saddle😄

We had a yard sale once and Bob said if I hadn't had tack to sell we wouldn't have made any money.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Tone is hard to pick up on a web site and what I sense here, perhaps wrongly, is that many aren't all that sensitive to the plight of others who are facing real economic and health insecurity these days - especially those outside of high income world.  Perhaps it is because of my lack of understanding of the use of emoticons.  

For sure there are some people not sensitive or at least not aware of the plight of others.  I wish Hans Rosling was still alive - I met him in real life.  His TED talk is one of my all time favourites which shows (with great humour) how the world has changed and that 'developing countries' have been improving at a more rapid pace than many developed countries.  Perhaps his son will do an analysis of the impact of the virus.  

   

Edited by lucymorgan

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