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How are ships being staffed now


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With all of the focus on when will we cruise again, I was wondering how Royal is maintaining the staff/crews on their ships now.  Much was made of repatriating crew members when everything ground to a halt.  So far, most ships continue to "operate" in some fashion.  Are crew members now able to rotate in and out?  When I look for information on this it seems like all the information is from March.  There has been talk of cold layup, hot standby, etc but it seems to have changed to ships being sold or scrapped.  So with all the sea lawyers and prognosticators (and just armatures like me) maybe there is more insight available.   Anyone have some helpful information?

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I'd be curious how many people does it take to run the ship without passengers? I'm not sure how many officers, engineers, maintenance, cooks and medical they have to have as a minimum.

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The crew would be minimum for sure. Still need the officers in charge of all the different departments. Still need the cooks, still need house keeping, engineering, maintenance, laundry, cleaning and alike. The ship itself needs constant physical maintenance.

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1 minute ago, Saab4444 said:

About 50 crew.

That very much depends on the ship - very unlikely ships Voyager class and bigger have that few, likely 100+. One of the officers on the Coral Princess (about the size of Vision class) mentioned that the lowest possible is 48 (cold lay up), but they would never go that low and likely not go below about 120.

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As an example, Celebrity Edge needs about 80 crew minimum with about a dozen officers but has about 130 active to support the non-working crew who remain on board.

 

There is no rotation since most of the relief crew can't enter the U.S. to get to the ship. Captain Kate said that she has been in command since December with no end in sight.

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Well, there is a wide variation between hot, warm, or cold layups, and between minimum manning and minimum statutory manning.  Let's look at cases:

 

Minimum manning:  if the ship were placed in a cold layup (no power onboard), the manning could be as low as 6, 2 each on each 8 hour security round, but cold layup is not reasonable for a cruise ship.   The ship cannot be operated or moved, and the certificates (registry, class, etc) are all suspended, and would require re-certification upon restarting.

 

Minimum statutory manning:  This is how many crew the flag state feels are necessary to safely navigate the vessel.  This is a no passenger situation, and just the safe manning to operate the ship.  This would be around 40-50, regardless of size, and would represent deck and engine officers and ratings, and a "steward's department" of 5-6 merely to feed the deck and engine crew.  This could be used in a warm layup situation.

 

Next up would be "reduced operating status":  This is the most likely scenario being used today, where the minimum statutory manning is supplemented by additional maintenance personnel in deck and engine, and a few more "steward's dept" to provide some laundry and cabin cleaning for senior officers, and this would likely run to 100.

 

No, there would not be supervisors for most departments, as most departments would be eliminated.  The Hotel Director would likely be the sole supervisor for the "steward's department".  Housekeeping, laundry, the vast majority of the galley staff, all wait staff, all bar staff, cruise staff, guest services, purser's office, HR, environmental, security, would all be reduced to one or two staff or eliminated completely.

 

Regarding rotations among crew on the ships, the difficulties with crew repatriation continue, both in the US and other countries.  While the CDC is starting to loosen up on crew changes with the "color code", and allowing commercial air travel under the color code, when the crew reach their home countries, they are finding that they are placed in mandatory quarantine.  The cruise lines that used their ships to get around the CDC's no commercial travel requirement found themselves acting as floating quarantine facilities in various countries where the crew live.

 

And, while the numbers of cruise ship crew that have been stuck on ships off the US has been dropping, over half have gone home (though many found a quarantine awaiting them), the problem of crew changes is not limited to cruise ships.  Cruise ship crews account for about 180,000 out of a total of 1.6 million merchant mariners, and those merchant mariners have not been able to perform the needed 100,000 crew changes each and every month, since the pandemic started.  The number of crew outside of cruise ships is increasing and reaching staggering proportions.  The IMO is working with member nations to get them all to recognize merchant mariners as essential workers, including cruise ship crew, and get travel restrictions lifted.  If this does not happen, the 80% of the world's economy that travels by sea could grind to a halt, just like the cruise industry.

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Just now, Pratique said:

As an example, Celebrity Edge needs about 80 crew minimum with about a dozen officers but has about 130 active to support the non-working crew who remain on board.

 

There is no rotation since most of the relief crew can't enter the U.S. to get to the ship. Captain Kate said that she has been in command since December with no end in sight.

It's not so much that the new crew cannot get to the US to board, but that doing crew changes falls within the no sail order operations while in US waters, so until a ship obtains "green status", then they can't embark crew either.  Though there are still travel restrictions on crew coming from various home countries, though this pertains more to senior officers than crew, as Captain Kate's relief comes from Greece (ban on entry to US), I believe, while the crew are mainly Indonesian and Philippine (no travel ban).

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2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's not so much that the new crew cannot get to the US to board, but that doing crew changes falls within the no sail order operations while in US waters, so until a ship obtains "green status", then they can't embark crew either.  Though there are still travel restrictions on crew coming from various home countries, though this pertains more to senior officers than crew, as Captain Kate's relief comes from Greece (ban on entry to US), I believe, while the crew are mainly Indonesian and Philippine (no travel ban).

Captain Kate said it was the travel restriction that was holding up her relief, but she didn't mention the no-sail order. It makes sense that it's probably both reasons, but in any event they have been swapping crew in the Bahamas as part of the repatriation but not taking on any relief.

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20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

It's not so much that the new crew cannot get to the US to board, but that doing crew changes falls within the no sail order operations while in US waters, so until a ship obtains "green status", then they can't embark crew either.  Though there are still travel restrictions on crew coming from various home countries, though this pertains more to senior officers than crew, as Captain Kate's relief comes from Greece (ban on entry to US), I believe, while the crew are mainly Indonesian and Philippine (no travel ban).

Just want to say "thank you" for your knowledgeable information!

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41 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Captain Kate said it was the travel restriction that was holding up her relief, but she didn't mention the no-sail order. It makes sense that it's probably both reasons, but in any event they have been swapping crew in the Bahamas as part of the repatriation but not taking on any relief.

Yes, they have been swapping crew to other ships of the company, but crew changes through the Bahamas were banned, along with all international entries until just recently.

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Kate (Celebrity Edge) recently posted on her Instagram that Royal Caribbean (and all sister brands, including Celebrity) have had full authorization to use the pier at Cococay to swap crew. However, they're not allowed onto the actual island.

 

That said, that doesn't enable crew who aren't already on a ship to reach another.

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1 minute ago, ryguy2008 said:

Kate (Celebrity Edge) recently posted on her Instagram that Royal Caribbean (and all sister brands, including Celebrity) have had full authorization to use the pier at Cococay to swap crew. However, they're not allowed onto the actual island.

 

That said, that doesn't enable crew who aren't already on a ship to reach another.

Yes, as I said, they can swap crew between ships, but leaving the pier is actually "entering" the Bahamas, and their borders have been closed for months.

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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, there is a wide variation between hot, warm, or cold layups, and between minimum manning and minimum statutory manning.  Let's look at cases:

 

Minimum manning:  if the ship were placed in a cold layup (no power onboard), the manning could be as low as 6, 2 each on each 8 hour security round, but cold layup is not reasonable for a cruise ship.   The ship cannot be operated or moved, and the certificates (registry, class, etc) are all suspended, and would require re-certification upon restarting.

 

Minimum statutory manning:  This is how many crew the flag state feels are necessary to safely navigate the vessel.  This is a no passenger situation, and just the safe manning to operate the ship.  This would be around 40-50, regardless of size, and would represent deck and engine officers and ratings, and a "steward's department" of 5-6 merely to feed the deck and engine crew.  This could be used in a warm layup situation.

 

Next up would be "reduced operating status":  This is the most likely scenario being used today, where the minimum statutory manning is supplemented by additional maintenance personnel in deck and engine, and a few more "steward's dept" to provide some laundry and cabin cleaning for senior officers, and this would likely run to 100.

 

No, there would not be supervisors for most departments, as most departments would be eliminated.  The Hotel Director would likely be the sole supervisor for the "steward's department".  Housekeeping, laundry, the vast majority of the galley staff, all wait staff, all bar staff, cruise staff, guest services, purser's office, HR, environmental, security, would all be reduced to one or two staff or eliminated completely.

 

Regarding rotations among crew on the ships, the difficulties with crew repatriation continue, both in the US and other countries.  While the CDC is starting to loosen up on crew changes with the "color code", and allowing commercial air travel under the color code, when the crew reach their home countries, they are finding that they are placed in mandatory quarantine.  The cruise lines that used their ships to get around the CDC's no commercial travel requirement found themselves acting as floating quarantine facilities in various countries where the crew live.

 

And, while the numbers of cruise ship crew that have been stuck on ships off the US has been dropping, over half have gone home (though many found a quarantine awaiting them), the problem of crew changes is not limited to cruise ships.  Cruise ship crews account for about 180,000 out of a total of 1.6 million merchant mariners, and those merchant mariners have not been able to perform the needed 100,000 crew changes each and every month, since the pandemic started.  The number of crew outside of cruise ships is increasing and reaching staggering proportions.  The IMO is working with member nations to get them all to recognize merchant mariners as essential workers, including cruise ship crew, and get travel restrictions lifted.  If this does not happen, the 80% of the world's economy that travels by sea could grind to a halt, just like the cruise industry.

Hi chengkp75

Thanks as always for your expert advice.

We have P&O Oceana docked at my local port of Newcastle UK.

She is 77,000 tons and docked here for 3 months from mid June.

She has 170 crew on board who are not allowed to leave the ship.

Graham.

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20 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, while the numbers of cruise ship crew that have been stuck on ships off the US has been dropping, over half have gone home (though many found a quarantine awaiting them), the problem of crew changes is not limited to cruise ships.  Cruise ship crews account for about 180,000 out of a total of 1.6 million merchant mariners, and those merchant mariners have not been able to perform the needed 100,000 crew changes each and every month, since the pandemic started.  The number of crew outside of cruise ships is increasing and reaching staggering proportions.  The IMO is working with member nations to get them all to recognize merchant mariners as essential workers, including cruise ship crew, and get travel restrictions lifted.  If this does not happen, the 80% of the world's economy that travels by sea could grind to a halt, just like the cruise industry.

Unfortunately cruise ships suffered at the start of the virus with devastating initial infections.  Now all mariners are painted with a broad brush and are suffering as a result.  Compare this to airline employees who are considered "essential" workers and not subject to any restrictions with continuing potential exposure every day!  I have not heard of any ships crew contracting the virus in the last 30+ days which should indicate they are virus free and the ships among some of the  safest places to be right now.  I see the challenge being how to keep them that way!

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Our local news station reported the Celebrity Millennium and Eclipse are sitting off shore in San Diego with a crew of 85 each . The ships only dock to refuel . It would cost $10,000 / day to remain in port. I think this will last all summer long .

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

 

 

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crew-center dot com had this today For Costa Mediterranea which just finished crew repatriation off ship.

Capacity: 2,114 passengers (normal); 2,680 passengers (maximum)
Crew: 912

 

After completing the disembarkation process, Costa Mediterranea set sail today to Singapore with 120 skeleton crew required to keep the vessel running. There are 7 crew members from each department such as Bar, Restaurant, Galley, Housekeeping, and the rest of the crew from deck and engine.

Edited by twins_to_alaska
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On 7/1/2020 at 1:42 PM, Pratique said:

As an example, Celebrity Edge needs about 80 crew minimum with about a dozen officers but has about 130 active to support the non-working crew who remain on board.

 

There is no rotation since most of the relief crew can't enter the U.S. to get to the ship. Captain Kate said that she has been in command since December with no end in sight.

It is amazing that she keeps her morale so high and works hard with her staff!  Hope she can go home soon and then come back to the ship under better circumstances.

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On 7/1/2020 at 2:46 PM, chengkp75 said:

Yes, as I said, they can swap crew between ships, but leaving the pier is actually "entering" the Bahamas, and their borders have been closed for months.

Thank you Chief for your wealth of information! How many years were you in the cruise industry? I love reading your information. Maybe you should write a book!

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5 hours ago, centurycruiser said:

I am interested in seeing if the crew and staff are ultimately returned to their previous ship. We made friends on each cruise.

Based on vacations for Captians, Captain Kate may have a one year holiday (or more)!

I imagine a cruise may be not on her wish list😂

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