P&O please enlighten us with your plans for social distancing

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

 

 

There are a range of good and bad possibilities in between; but perhaps something pragmatic and positively framed might lift spirits and help the group I mentioned, to P&Os benefit.

So, they make a positive statement, totally guessed as they cannot know what will happen between now and October,  people pay their balances, then P&O get slaughtered for misleading customers... 

Great idea... 

Andy 

[No pager thank you]

22 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

So, they make a positive statement, totally guessed as they cannot know what will happen between now and October,  people pay their balances, then P&O get slaughtered for misleading customers... 

Great idea... 

Andy 

And by saying nothing ...they get "slaughtered" anyway and are accused of "a cover up," whilst some of their competitors are seen as being more open for trying to speak truth.  Even worse?

 

This may be one of those difficult scenarios where you have to choose the cross you wish to carry.  Choosing to say nothing is a choice, and will be retrospectively filtered by the same customers anyway?

 

Nothing ventured, nothing possibly gained?  Will be interesting to see what they actually do 😀

[AndyMichelle]

1 minute ago, No pager thank you said:

And by saying nothing ...they get "slaughtered" anyway and are accused of "a cover up," whilst some of their competitors are seen as being more open for trying to speak truth.  Even worse?

 

This may be one of those difficult scenarios where you have to choose the cross you wish to carry.  Choosing to say nothing is a choice, and will be retrospectively filtered by the same customers anyway?

 

Nothing ventured, nothing possibly gained?  Will be interesting to see what they actually do 😀

Sorry to carry this on and no disrespect is intended, but I cannot see the sense in them lying. 

So you think they should just make it up, as they can't possibly know? 

I would expect them to make a vague, reassuring statement to appease the nay sayers and then be accused of not giving specific information. 

Every business is having to adapt almost daily, but you want them to predict what will happen in 15 weeks time... 

We all just have to wait and see... 

In case anyone has forgotten, we are still dealing with a Pandemic that has not miraculously gone away... 

Andy 

 

[No pager thank you]

11 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Sorry to carry this on and no disrespect is intended, but I cannot see the sense in them lying. 

So you think they should just make it up, as they can't possibly know? 

I would expect them to make a vague, reassuring statement to appease the nay sayers and then be accused of not giving specific information. 

Every business is having to adapt almost daily, but you want them to predict what will happen in 15 weeks time... 

We all just have to wait and see... 

In case anyone has forgotten, we are still dealing with a Pandemic that has not miraculously gone away... 

Andy 

 

Hi Andy, no problem at all. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to come at this the way you do.  Hopefully my posts come across in the same way.

 

You are probably right about what they will end up doing.

 

Where I do disagree is that there is a way of treating people like adults and avoiding lying.... i.e. we are in uncertain times, we realise that many customers have wanted an update...our current thinking is...

 

Even, we are optimistic / still uncertain about a restart in operations on 15th October....it's hard for us to predict the future accurately, our current assessment is...

 

Personally, I would advocate this type of path, but it's not clear cut.  I wouldn't advocate a daily commentary or anything like that, just something which seems to be keeping up with the changes to the pandemic restrictions today.

 

Hope that helps explain how I'm seeing this differently?

[AndyMichelle]

21 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Hi Andy, no problem at all. I think that it is perfectly reasonable to come at this the way you do.  Hopefully my posts come across in the same way.

 

You are probably right about what they will end up doing.

 

Where I do disagree is that there is a way of treating people like adults and avoiding lying.... i.e. we are in uncertain times, we realise that many customers have wanted an update...our current thinking is...

 

Even, we are optimistic / still uncertain about a restart in operations on 15th October....it's hard for us to predict the future accurately, our current assessment is...

 

Personally, I would advocate this type of path, but it's not clear cut.  I wouldn't advocate a daily commentary or anything like that, just something which seems to be keeping up with the changes to the pandemic restrictions today.

 

Hope that helps explain how I'm seeing this differently?

I think we are agreeing on most points and I think you are right in what they are likely to say. 

But I can hear the comments now... 'What was the point of that, it was just waffle'. 

They obviously want to hold on to money and by admitting they have no real plans could be detrimental to that. 

They refused to communicate over the refund fiasco until it was too late to do anything about it and willingly broke the law, so expecting good customer relations now is unlikely. 

Andy 

[KnowTheScore]

On 7/3/2020 at 11:41 AM, Balaena said:

 

Like many on this site, as a very regular P&O cruiser with 2 cruises planned for November and December and a long one round Cape Horn Jan/Feb I would be very interested to know from Carnival House what the plans are for social distancing on their ships which are due to commence cruising again from October.

 

 

Your concerns don't appear to be in the right place imho

 

Who cares about social distancing?

 

The most important thing imho you need P&O to be open and honest about is what protocols they will be forced to follow if there is a case of COVID-19 on-board.   If it's still a case of quarantining every passenger to cabins for 2 weeks ala Diamond Princess then I fear it's game over.   Social distancing measures are way down the pecking list imho.

 

.

[wowzz]

8 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Your concerns don't appear to be in the right place imho

 

Who cares about social distancing?

 

The most important thing imho you need P&O to be open and honest about is what protocols they will be forced to follow if there is a case of COVID-19 on-board.   If it's still a case of quarantining every passenger to cabins for 2 weeks ala Diamond Princess then I fear it's game over.   Social distancing measures are way down the pecking list imho.

 

.

Actually I think you have put your finger on the main problem, and no cruise line has yet really addressed the issue.  Yes you can have masks, yes you can have temperature checks, yes you can section off tables in restaurants etc. 

But, what do you do when a passenger or crew member has CV19? By the time they display symptoms they can easily have infected 20/30/50 other people. There is no way that you can determine who these infected people may be. 

In many ways, this situation is no different to a hotel, apart from the fact that a hotel does not move from town to town, possibly spreading a virus in its path. 

And I believe that is why, however many safety measures the cruise industry puts in place, that cruising is in trouble. If one person on a ship has CV19, what do you do with the other thousands of crew and passengers, all of whom are potential carriers.

[mercury7289]

15 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Actually I think you have put your finger on the main problem, and no cruise line has yet really addressed the issue.  Yes you can have masks, yes you can have temperature checks, yes you can section off tables in restaurants etc. 

But, what do you do when a passenger or crew member has CV19? By the time they display symptoms they can easily have infected 20/30/50 other people. There is no way that you can determine who these infected people may be. 

In many ways, this situation is no different to a hotel, apart from the fact that a hotel does not move from town to town, possibly spreading a virus in its path. 

And I believe that is why, however many safety measures the cruise industry puts in place, that cruising is in trouble. If one person on a ship has CV19, what do you do with the other thousands of crew and passengers, all of whom are potential carriers.

If one, or a few passengers had it, would they not seriously compensate, under a non disclosure agreement!!

[No pager thank you]

6 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

If one, or a few passengers had it, would they not seriously compensate, under a non disclosure agreement!!

Possibly, or rely on the up to two week incubation period to explain how the infection was acquired off, and not on the ship, or in the course of the ship's activities. 

 

On most short cruises, there would be an opportunity to debark the passenger within 24-48 hours of the symptoms materialising and any test taking place.  Plus there would have to be dedicated quarantine facilities for the intervening period.

 

Yes, if this happens of course, you have a more serious issue around possible community spread in the pre symptomatic time and having read the full CLIA guide (sad, yes I know), I couldn't honestly say I know that protocol is expected to work.  Agree with Wowzz on that one.

 

For balance, worth saying that Hurtigurten seems to be doing well.

 

Less difficult to pass off liability issues than with the previously frequent norovirus which could infect around 4-5% if an outbreak occurred.

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

Possibly, or rely on the up to two week incubation period to explain how the infection was acquired off, and not on the ship, or in the course of the ship's activities. 

Actually, I dont think it really matters where or how the infection got on board. The real question is what do you do with the ship and passengers/crew when a case is identified on board? Just dumping the infected individual at the nearest port is not the answer- it's what you do with the other 3000 people that is the question.

[Harry Peterson]

 

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

Actually, I dont think it really matters where or how the infection got on board. The real question is what do you do with the ship and passengers/crew when a case is identified on board? Just dumping the infected individual at the nearest port is not the answer- it's what you do with the other 3000 people that is the question.

Don't we already know the answer from Diamond Princess, Grand Princess, etc?  Has the situation really changed?

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

 

Don't we already know the answer from Diamond Princess, Grand Princess, etc?  Has the situation really changed?

The situation probably has not changed that much. However,  if a cruise line came out and said that if a case if CV19 was discovered on board, all passengers would immediately be confined to their cabins, would anyone be prepared to cruise again?

[Harry Peterson]

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

The situation probably has not changed that much. However,  if a cruise line came out and said that if a case if CV19 was discovered on board, all passengers would immediately be confined to their cabins, would anyone be prepared to cruise again?

Probably not. And that’s going to be quite a hurdle for cruise companies, isn’t it. Not a risk I’ll be taking.

[wowzz]

11 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Probably not. And that’s going to be quite a hurdle for cruise companies, isn’t it. Not a risk I’ll be taking.

Nor me

[AndyMichelle]

8 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Your concerns don't appear to be in the right place imho

 

Who cares about social distancing?

 

The most important thing imho you need P&O to be open and honest about is what protocols they will be forced to follow if there is a case of COVID-19 on-board.   If it's still a case of quarantining every passenger to cabins for 2 weeks ala Diamond Princess then I fear it's game over.   Social distancing measures are way down the pecking list imho.

 

.

Good point KTS.

Another reason that they won't/cant say much. 

They will be hoping that in 15 weeks time, or whenever they are allowed to sail, that the threat would be subdued in some way or they find a way to contain the odd cases, or the Oxford miracle is available.. 

They are trying to save an industry, so to say what they would do today, which will probably be different to what they will have to do later is a bit pointless. 

They will want to learn from the pubs, hotels, airlines, holiday resorts etc and take the best bits from them. 

They really have their work cut out.. 

Andy 

[AnnieC]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

The situation probably has not changed that much. However,  if a cruise line came out and said that if a case if CV19 was discovered on board, all passengers would immediately be confined to their cabins, would anyone be prepared to cruise again?

If the ship is in port, it isn't up to the cruise lines. If handled in a similar way to Diamond Princess, the authorities of whichever country the ship finds itself in make the decisions. 

[Denarius]

May I raise another issue?

I read in the press recently that a cruise line (not P&O) which was about to recommence business planned to "discourage" independent shore visits in favour of organised excursions. How they would do this was not made clear. Presumably the aim is to minimise contact and potential infection between passengers and the local populations. Is this likely to become the norm?

[No pager thank you]

4 minutes ago, Denarius said:

May I raise another issue?

I read in the press recently that a cruise line (not P&O) which was about to recommence business planned to "discourage" independent shore visits in favour of organised excursions. How they would do this was not made clear. Presumably the aim is to minimise contact and potential infection between passengers and the local populations. Is this likely to become the norm?

Yes, I saw this too.  The fact that the implementation of the public health measure is commercially advantageous is only a coincidence of course.  I can see this being part of the plan.

 

Ways in which this could work might include:

 

-- Either not providing, or severely restricting, access to shuttle buses in arrival ports.

-- Using social distancing logic to prioritize disembarkation for organised tour guests.

-- Implementing new "local" or Port Regulations on behalf of the host authority which may, to the passenger, make independent exploration more difficult.

-- Enhanced screening for returning independent guests.

-- Potentially even conveying in some instances tourist taxes or levies to departing guests, which will be included in the cost of a cruise company organised excursion.  In fairness, I couldn't see P&O doing this one.

 

The issue is, as part of the plan, and on the premise that coaches will not be full, will Shore Excursions accept a small reduction in margin, or will the increased costs be passed on - therefore passengers pay for the implementation of whatever measures "discourage" independent exploration? 

 

One of the many things which will come out in the wash as they say.

[terrierjohn]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

The situation probably has not changed that much. However,  if a cruise line came out and said that if a case if CV19 was discovered on board, all passengers would immediately be confined to their cabins, would anyone be prepared to cruise again?

The EU document did suggest that ports and countries would need to accept that covid passengers could be disembarked for hospital treatment if needed, there was also suggestions as to how shore excursions and port visits could be safely handled in these circumstances.

[Josy1953]

We can all speculate as.much as we like but until P&O actually formulate a plan and make it available to the public we cannot really make an informed decision about what to do re future cruises.  For us not knowing means that we have cancelled our cruise for the end of October rather than pay the balance and then potentially have to wait for months for a refund, been there done that not doing it again.  Everyone has to do whatever they feel is best for themselves.

[zap99]

18 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

And by saying nothing ...they get "slaughtered" anyway and are accused of "a cover up," whilst some of their competitors are seen as being more open for trying to speak truth.  Even worse?

 

This may be one of those difficult scenarios where you have to choose the cross you wish to carry.  Choosing to say nothing is a choice, and will be retrospectively filtered by the same customers anyway?

 

Nothing ventured, nothing possibly gained?  Will be interesting to see what they actually do 😀

They will probably issue you with a Pager to call you to dinner 😂

[zap99]

18 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

And by saying nothing ...they get "slaughtered" anyway and are accused of "a cover up," whilst some of their competitors are seen as being more open for trying to speak truth.  Even worse?

 

This may be one of those difficult scenarios where you have to choose the cross you wish to carry.  Choosing to say nothing is a choice, and will be retrospectively filtered by the same customers anyway?

 

Nothing ventured, nothing possibly gained?  Will be interesting to see what they actually do 😀

I wonder how many of those published procedures will change before cruising gets underway. Most I would think.

 

[No pager thank you]

4 minutes ago, zap99 said:

They will probably issue you with a Pager to call you to dinner 😂

So long as it's a two way pager, for "personalised feedback from me" then I won't care...🤣

[Tommart]

What a depressing thread........I'll be very interested indeed to read the first reports from passengers returning once things start up again.  Until then, I think I'll holiday in the UK for a while. 😀

[Nic6318]

On 7/3/2020 at 7:04 AM, bee-ess said:

I made this point on another thread, they are asking us to pay our balance without knowing exactly what we are paying for. If for example it is like the EU document the other day I would not want to go but we can't make a decision without the facts.

 

Hi Bee

 

... and yet many people seem more than happy to do so. Apparently some not really caring if it will be safe, or in fact it will happen at all. 

 

Amazing, isn't it? It's almost as if some feel that if they can go on a cruise, all their other problems will disappear. No clarity is needed, no patience is needed. Blind to what normally would be obvious. Have you heard the term, buying a "pig in a poke"?