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Its time to move on from 2020


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8 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

Why does Royal need to step up and take the lead? They are going to do what's best for them. No one has to follow them. I made a choice in the beginning not to play their games. You said no one can predict the future so why do you think they can give you a detailed plan when they haven't got a clue? We all like to cruise or we wouldn't be here. There is more to life than cruising.

This is what I really don't get - there is SO much more to life than cruising but comments from some people make it sound as if there isn't.

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4 hours ago, 123funcruiser said:

 

As it´s been said already, your point of view is a very narrow one. You are just looking at the US and most likely only at the big lines.

 

In a more broad view cruising has started up again already and cruises are underway / have been completed already.

 

The following is only cruises I know about and there might have been earlier ones worldwide. Also the following are only a few of those I know about, there´s actually more sailing again already....

 

First River cruise started as early as June 3rd in Germany and River cruising in Europe has started up quite a bit again. 

 

A number of ocean going cruises have started in Norway with to my knowledge the first ones on June 16th and June 20th.

 

Another one started on June 26th from Germany.

 

A number of cruises from France are planned for July.

 

Cruising in French Polynesia starts up in July as well.

 

In Asia the Explorer Dream is planned to start end of July.

 

Costa just announced to restart in August.

 

Oh and just to tell you there´s a US cruiseline that plans to start their Alaska season on August 1st - UnCruise Adventures.

 

Will all these cruises have various limitations - YES!!! 

 

Your "no cruising for anyone anywhere" is definitely WRONG!!!

 

 

Im no expert, but i'll bet your examples don't cover 5% of the cruise fleet capacity.

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33 minutes ago, mek said:

Most places haven't even figured out how to open up restaurants, bars, and just everyday living without seeing huge spikes in cases

I think the current protocols are fine. It’s the people not following the protocols. It’s a shame a few always make it difficult on others. 
 

M8

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49 minutes ago, mek said:

This is what I really don't get - there is SO much more to life than cruising but comments from some people make it sound as if there isn't.

There are people here who cruise pretty much every month.  It's an addiction.

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18 hours ago, John Reid said:

A compliance measure that NO ONE rEally cares about? If you care, cruising isn't for you? Vox populi.

Got your travel plans for tomorrow's Independence Day COVID19 rally at Mt. Rushmore. Compliance measures; no one cares. Tell that to the Arizona and Texas hospitals out of beds and supplies.

Check all the boxes and set sail? You might notice that many other countries are restricting Americans from entering - with good reason.

I understand why you would feel that way and the frustration at people who make choices you don't agree with.  The CDC has precious little credibility to maneuver with, between the overreaction in the NSO (it prevented an immeasurably small number of cases) and their only meaningful guidance being face coverings and hand washing (do we really need a multi-billion dollar agency to come up with this?).

 

So please understand that a lot of people are rightly concerned that the eventual guidance for the cruise lines will be more focused on face-saving than actual medicine.  The lockdowns didn't stop this so what reason should we believe that any future rules will?  Fighting Mother Nature will always be a losing proposition.

 

The reason no on will care (please don't make the mistake of conflating not caring with non-compliance) is because by the time cruising resumes, prevalence will be so high (active and recovered) that these rules will be utterly pointless.  I'm booked for October and I have zero expectation of a virus free cruise, despite all the efforts to make it so.

 

If anyone is counting on the rules to avoid serious consequences, then no, cruising isn't for them for the foreseeable future.  However, the vast, vast majority of people are not at risk for serious complications.  So for us in that group, it's time to pack a set of fabulous designer face coverings, grab and extra bottle of hand sanitizer (with moisturizer) and hit the gangway.

 

And before you extol Canada, Europe, Singapore or Taiwan, keep in mind, 6-9 months from now, they still be lauding themselves for how well they're handling it while the US, Sweden and maybe even Mexico will be done, over and uncanceled.  There is no guarantee of an effective vaccine so the faster we get to herd immunity, the sooner grandma can come out of hiding.

 

(Vox Populi 🙄...yes, BioShock is great game.)

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6 hours ago, 123funcruiser said:

 

As it´s been said already, your point of view is a very narrow one. You are just looking at the US and most likely only at the big lines.

 

In a more broad view cruising has started up again already and cruises are underway / have been completed already.

 

The following is only cruises I know about and there might have been earlier ones worldwide. Also the following are only a few of those I know about, there´s actually more sailing again already....

 

First River cruise started as early as June 3rd in Germany and River cruising in Europe has started up quite a bit again. 

 

A number of ocean going cruises have started in Norway with to my knowledge the first ones on June 16th and June 20th.

 

Another one started on June 26th from Germany.

 

A number of cruises from France are planned for July.

 

Cruising in French Polynesia starts up in July as well.

 

In Asia the Explorer Dream is planned to start end of July.

 

Costa just announced to restart in August.

 

Oh and just to tell you there´s a US cruiseline that plans to start their Alaska season on August 1st - UnCruise Adventures.

 

Will all these cruises have various limitations - YES!!! 

 

Your "no cruising for anyone anywhere" is definitely WRONG!!!

 

 

 

Please list out the companies names and ships and how many passengers each ships holds to back up your info?

Edited by Jimbo
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46 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think the current protocols are fine. It’s the people not following the protocols. It’s a shame a few always make it difficult on others. 
 

M8

Dan and I are running out of places.  Another one here in NSB had an employee test positive.  They just had the place sanitized and now are removing the bar stools.  Here you could go back to sitting at the bar although most (but not all) have the seats space 6 feet apart

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6 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Please list out the companies names and ships and how many passengers each ships holds to back up your info?

 

Sounds like a homework assignment....🙄

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59 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think the current protocols are fine. It’s the people not following the protocols. It’s a shame a few always make it difficult on others. 
 

M8

Well that is the point, isn't.  If people can't follow simple steps to stay safe at home what makes anyone think they will work on a cruise ship with thousands of people.

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2 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

Sounds like a homework assignment....🙄

Yeah, because those sailings arent' happening either, Just looked up the one ship the poster listed, American Dream..........every place it lists a sailing, it says to contact the cruiseline for pricing and availability, meaning that sailing is not happening.

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40 minutes ago, bouhunter said:

There are people here who cruise pretty much every month.  It's an addiction.

I know that but it's time to be realistic about what is going on.

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1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Im no expert, but i'll bet your examples don't cover 5% of the cruise fleet capacity.

 

Who said it would even cover 0.1% of the cruise fleet capacity?😕

I simply stated "no cruising for anyone anywhere" is wrong and people are cruising again already in other parts of the world.

 

9 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

Sounds like a homework assignment....🙄

 

Yep and I´m certainly not falling for it. @Jimbo can think whatever he wants, but some of those cruises have sailed already and some have disembarked their first cruises already and started the next round. He can do his own homework. He´s been proven wrong, but I know there´s people who can´t focus on reality and facts, but instead think i.e. if you don´t test there´s less cases.

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The last few years I've started doing European river cruises in addition to ocean cruises.  A few wks. ago I booked one for December 2021.  Right now the issue is not being able to fly to Europe for US residents.  There are river cruise lines whose target audience is Europeans that are starting to sail.  The lines such as Viking, Tauck, Uniworld, AMA, Vantage, etc. that cater to English speakers rely heavily on US passengers.  Don't know how they'll fare.  

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36 minutes ago, boatseller said:

And before you extol Canada, Europe, Singapore or Taiwan, keep in mind, 6-9 months from now, they still be lauding themselves for how well they're handling it while the US, Sweden and maybe even Mexico will be done, over and uncanceled.  There is no guarantee of an effective vaccine so the faster we get to herd immunity, the sooner grandma can come out of hiding.


Only time will tell.  If that was the true goal, then America should have just rolled with it from the beginning and thrown caution to the wind.
 

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I think the current protocols are fine. It’s the people not following the protocols. It’s a shame a few always make it difficult on others. 
 

M8


Those few aren’t worried about cruising either. They just want their lives to be as it used to be. They can live that way, but unfortunately it might just “slap” them back. As you said, the actions of some, effecting others. 

 

8 minutes ago, mek said:

Well that is the point, isn't.  If people can't follow simple steps to stay safe at home what makes anyone think they will work on a cruise ship with thousands of people.


It might take a while for some to realize that others are effected by them.  Sadly, I doubt they will learn that lesson.

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55 minutes ago, boatseller said:

I understand why you would feel that way and the frustration at people who make choices you don't agree with.  The CDC has precious little credibility to maneuver with, between the overreaction in the NSO (it prevented an immeasurably small number of cases) and their only meaningful guidance being face coverings and hand washing (do we really need a multi-billion dollar agency to come up with this?).

 

So please understand that a lot of people are rightly concerned that the eventual guidance for the cruise lines will be more focused on face-saving than actual medicine.  The lockdowns didn't stop this so what reason should we believe that any future rules will?  Fighting Mother Nature will always be a losing proposition.

 

The reason no on will care (please don't make the mistake of conflating not caring with non-compliance) is because by the time cruising resumes, prevalence will be so high (active and recovered) that these rules will be utterly pointless.  I'm booked for October and I have zero expectation of a virus free cruise, despite all the efforts to make it so.

 

If anyone is counting on the rules to avoid serious consequences, then no, cruising isn't for them for the foreseeable future.  However, the vast, vast majority of people are not at risk for serious complications.  So for us in that group, it's time to pack a set of fabulous designer face coverings, grab and extra bottle of hand sanitizer (with moisturizer) and hit the gangway.

 

And before you extol Canada, Europe, Singapore or Taiwan, keep in mind, 6-9 months from now, they still be lauding themselves for how well they're handling it while the US, Sweden and maybe even Mexico will be done, over and uncanceled.  There is no guarantee of an effective vaccine so the faster we get to herd immunity, the sooner grandma can come out of hiding.

 

(Vox Populi 🙄...yes, BioShock is great game.)

I don't mean to be rude and admire your passion and tenacity but there is so much that's wrong with what you posted.

 

The lockdowns didn't stop this?  Look at countries that imposed lockdowns, New Zealand, Vietnam, Taiwan etc... They absolutely work if everyone is in compliance.  Heck look a New York.  They were absolutely slammed with the Virus.  They've flattened the curve and now they are worried about people from other states going into NY and possibly undo the great work they achieved.  Masks, Washing Hands and Social Distancing absolutely work.  This thing would eventually peter out if every person in the world listened and did what was suggested to them.  The problem as I said before is Human Nature.

 

There is no guarantee of Herd Immunity.  Way too early. Viruses mutate.  Why do you think people need flu shots every year?  Some 3rd world countries may not have a choice but we do.  This Virus is not like the common Flu.  To achieve Herd Immunity if it exists, at least 70% of the population has to get the virus.  How many casualties would there be?  What are the long term effects?  Many studies are showing that there may be some serious side effects showing at a later date even in young people.  Too much is not known.  No way I'm taking that chance for the sake of cruising.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Roz said:

The last few years I've started doing European river cruises in addition to ocean cruises.  A few wks. ago I booked one for December 2021.  Right now the issue is not being able to fly to Europe for US residents.  There are river cruise lines whose target audience is Europeans that are starting to sail.  The lines such as Viking, Tauck, Uniworld, AMA, Vantage, etc. that cater to English speakers rely heavily on US passengers.  Don't know how they'll fare.  

I have no idea what percentage of the cruising public are citizens of the US.  It really was not my point.  The big picture is being able to travel internationally regardless of origin or destination.  With all the restrictions in our world right now, I do not see 5,10,20,30 or more countries all coming together on a set of standards in the next couple of months.  Many of us still do not know when we will even be able to have a family get together.  It doesn't matter if Royal steps up and does it first but it remains an opportunity to be a leader and set some new standards and expectations.  Cruising is great and I look forward to its return.  For now, we will gas up the car and tour our great country and visit family and friends as we can.  Happy 4th of July to all in the USA!

we the people.jpg

Edited by zonacruiser25
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2 hours ago, molly361 said:

Dan and I are running out of places.  Another one here in NSB had an employee test positive.  They just had the place sanitized and now are removing the bar stools.  Here you could go back to sitting at the bar although most (but not all) have the seats space 6 feet apart

I’m sitting at our favorite bar, Saints and Sinners after a long ride this morning. It’s located at the Dealership. With our favorite bartender, Kim. 
 

@John&LaLa they don’t serve NA. 
 

Social distancing in effect. 
 

Happy 4th

 

M8

 

715F70B1-BFCC-4E53-90C8-A3E1DFA8F85E.jpeg

28FAA018-7B90-4EF1-B7D9-DE16362F67F1.jpeg

Edited by Milwaukee Eight
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1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:


Only time will tell.  If that was the true goal, then America should have just rolled with it from the beginning and thrown caution to the wind.
 


Those few aren’t worried about cruising either. They just want their lives to be as it used to be. They can live that way, but unfortunately it might just “slap” them back. As you said, the actions of some, effecting others. 

 


It might take a while for some to realize that others are effected by them.  Sadly, I doubt they will learn that lesson.

I agree but will say, you can’t keep these places shutdown. People can’t make their payments, Businesses are going out of business. They will never come back. The Government can’t keep printing money. 
 

M8

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4 hours ago, ChC said:

Please don't rely on the hope of vaccine. The best case, a vaccine takes nine months to develop. The medium case, it takes two years to prove safe. The worst case, there is never an effective vaccine. It is better to hope for a more effective treatment before a vaccine. Not every virus can be tackled by vaccine. Especially at this moment we still can't 100% discount the conspiracy theory of this virus being engineered in the lab.

 

So we need to restart cruising as soon as the risks are minimised and have effective screening measures for passengers and crew. Otherwise we will never be able to cruise again if we put all our hope on a vaccine.

However, vaccines help your body fight off viruses.  I'll settle for the same level of immunity I have for normal respiratory infection I sometimes get on cruises.

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29 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m sitting at our favorite bar, Saints and Sinners after a long ride this morning. It’s located at the Dealership. With our favorite bartender, Kim. 
 

@John&LaLa they don’t serve NA. 
 

Social distancing in effect. 
 

Happy 4th

 

M8

 

28FAA018-7B90-4EF1-B7D9-DE16362F67F1.jpeg

 

Whats their call vodka🤔

 

Some pictures quoted for effect😉😁

Edited by John&LaLa
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11 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I agree but will say, you can’t keep these places shutdown. People can’t make their payments, Businesses are going out of business. They will never come back. The Government can’t keep printing money. 
 

M8

I agree. But we would be WAY ahead of the game in progress if there hadn't been a five week hoax, making masks a political issue to fly one's colors, using the "personal freedom - it's in the Constitution" defense (as if we don't have laws to moderate a civilized society), "it's all about me," demonizing researchers and experts trying to deal with a novel virus, the absence of any sensible leadership, repeated suggestions of cures that range from comical to dangerous, making it a state by state effort to deflect responsibility causing inconsistency while successful nations have had a unified plan, focusing blame on other countries as if that would cure things rather than address the crisis, and now the best - "it will burn out and go away."

It may take a time machine to get a return to some normalcy. 

How do we reopen? Go back to square one with a single plan for the nation instituted by those with the proper skills and not some other agenda, and compliance across the country by those who need to remember what it is to be an American.

Efforts in the United States have been intentionally compromised, and we will pay a long-term price.

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8 minutes ago, John Reid said:

I agree. But we would be WAY ahead of the game in progress if there hadn't been a five week hoax, making masks a political issue to fly one's colors, using the "personal freedom - it's in the Constitution" defense (as if we don't have laws to moderate a civilized society), "it's all about me," demonizing researchers and experts trying to deal with a novel virus, the absence of any sensible leadership, repeated suggestions of cures that range from comical to dangerous, making it a state by state effort to deflect responsibility causing inconsistency while successful nations have had a unified plan, focusing blame on other countries as if that would cure things rather than address the crisis, and now the best - "it will burn out and go away."

It may take a time machine to get a return to some normalcy. 

How do we reopen? Go back to square one with a single plan for the nation instituted by those with the proper skills and not some other agenda, and compliance across the country by those who need to remember what it is to be an American.

Efforts in the United States have been intentionally compromised, and we will pay a long-term price.

I truly believe that when the history of this time on our planet is written, the response in the country of my birth that I love, will go down as one of the most colossal failures in modern history. 

 

The ignorance of science is breathtaking (and frequently quoted, as recently as today, by some right here).  The "Die for the Dow" mentality.  The rush to get things open long before virtually any scientist or medical professional thought it wise.  The rush to open even when NOT ONE OF THE STATES that did open met the very liberal opening guidelines promoted by the CDC and the federal government (14 consecutive days of decreasing cases).  The blatant disregard for face coverings by a significant subset of the population here.

Enjoy your lack of cruising, America.  The buck stops with a loud and ignorant minority here.  Who will never own it, unfortunately.

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3 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Please list out the companies names and ships and how many passengers each ships holds to back up your info?

I can help with Norway:

Color Line started their Oslo - Kiel cruises last month. Ships sail with reduced capacity (normally app. 3000 pax) - no buffets, floor markings, no ordering at the bar counter and so on. Passengers are for the time being not allowed ashore in Kiel.
Hurtigruten coastal voyage is also operating, to my guess under the same conditions as Color Line.

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