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NCL/RCL team to develop reopening plans for CDC

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1 minute ago, Kwaj girl said:

Yet, would those 2 not then become like a 'household' in term of sharing space like a family does in their home?  They then 'share' similar germs and become immune to each other in that regard, no?  Hust a thought....

This will be one of many hurdles they will have to look at and address. Personally (I am not from the infectious disease world) I do not see in the arena of "family."  In an earlier post I referenced a conversation that I had with an ID colleague this weekend.  She will not see her grandchildren, unless she self quarantines for 14 days.  

 

When reading those April 15 CFR guidelines from CDC, this issue is nothing compared to the systems they will have to have in place to cruise.  Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall when they run all of this past their GC and insurers.  

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Interesting information.  Since I cannot open this article, kindly let me know when this outbreak took place on the Disney Wonder?  Since the article mentions passengers, I assume that it was prior to the "voluntary" cruise shut-down and also assume that masks were not worn and distancing wasn't practiced.  

 

I read somewhere on the CC Regent board that since there will be fewer passengers, there will be fewer crew members and the goal is to have a maximum of two crew members in each cabin.  This obviously would be easier to do on some ships than others.  

 

Whatever protocols are put in place for the crew will likely be stringent.  While the crew will likely have to get used to this and won't enjoy wearing a mask most of the time, they will also be happy to be working in a safe environment.


Below are some additional quotes that might help:

 

”Passengers, who were generally older than crew members, died in greater numbers than crew members, with 21 passenger deaths versus 12 crew deaths, according to the CDC, the agency that looks out for the health of Americans.

The data, which covered 121 vessels, came from cruise-line reports and public health officials’ counts and covered the period from March 1 to June 23, for what the CDC described as ships in the U.S. jurisdiction, though not always in U.S. waters. Some cases of infection on cruise ships, identified when people returned to their home countries, didn’t appear to have been included, according to the Journal’s analysis.

Of those on the CDC’s list, the ships with the most confirmed cases of Covid-19 and Covid-like illness, combined, according to the data, wereDisney DIS -0.90% Cruise Line’s Wonder and four Carnival Corp.CCL -2.72% ships: the Zaandam, the Grand Princess, the Valor and the Coral Princess. Together, they accounted for more than one-third of the CDC’s total of confirmed and possible cases, at 990 of 2,902.

The five ships with the most confirmed Covid-19 cases were the Wonder, the Grand Princess, the Valor, Royal Caribbean Cruises ’ Celebrity Eclipse and Carnival Corp.’s Freedom, according to the data.

The most deaths were tied to the Grand Princess, the Zaandam and the Coral Princess according to the CDC, with a total of 17 passenger deaths and three crew deaths, or 20 out of 33 fatalities overall, the data indicates.

The data excludes hundreds of ships with itineraries outside the U.S., including some with significant Covid-19 outbreaks, such as the Diamond Princess and Ruby Princess, whose problems surfaced in Japan and Australia, respectively.“

Edited by Steve Q
Fix problem

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Thank you for the additional information - it is helpful.  With the exception of the Disney ship, it is interesting that the rest of the ships are owned by Carnival Corporation. While  I am hopeful that there will be no outbreaks on any ship once cruising resumes, if it begins on any Carnival brand again, it would make sense to stop cruises on their ships but not the rest of the cruise lines.  

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25 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

Interesting information.  Since I cannot open this article, kindly let me know when this outbreak took place on the Disney Wonder?  Since the article mentions passengers, I assume that it was prior to the "voluntary" cruise shut-down and also assume that masks were not worn and distancing wasn't practiced.  

 

I read somewhere on the CC Regent board that since there will be fewer passengers, there will be fewer crew members and the goal is to have a maximum of two crew members in each cabin.  This obviously would be easier to do on some ships than others.  

 

Whatever protocols are put in place for the crew will likely be stringent.  While the crew will likely have to get used to this and won't enjoy wearing a mask most of the time, they will also be happy to be working in a safe environment.

At this point and for quite a way in the future, one of the founding principles will most probably be the wearing of masks of all people (not just staff).  One should imagine it just as in most States that have taken this seriously.  If you cannot social distance, a mask should be worn.  

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3 hours ago, howiefrommd said:

At this point and for quite a way in the future, one of the founding principles will most probably be the wearing of masks of all people (not just staff).  One should imagine it just as in most States that have taken this seriously.  If you cannot social distance, a mask should be worn.  

 

My belief is that Regent will not sail unless passengers are free to walk around the ship without masks.  Requiring masks for embarkation, bus trips, and disembarkation will be fine; but not on board.  Given that most of Europe is avoiding masks, will be interesting to know what Sea Dream, Hurtigruten, Aida, and Ponant are requiring with respect to masks.

 

Marc

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This post is just a question. Isn’t the real end of the problems of all cruise lines the development and availability of a vaccine?  It is my belief that many potential guests will be hesitant to cruise if they would be required to wear a mask in all public areas, and as many others would be hesitant to cruise absent such a rule.  And many would be hesitant to cruise pre-vaccine under either scenario. If cruises begin pre-vaccine, there will of course be a good number who book with their FCCs before those expire. But after the FCCs are used or expired, and if there is still no vaccine, won’t the number of “new paying guests” be greatly reduced  compared with pre-pandemic bookings? 

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1 minute ago, Dolebludger said:

This post is just a question. Isn’t the real end of the problems of all cruise lines the development and availability of a vaccine?  It is my belief that many potential guests will be hesitant to cruise if they would be required to wear a mask in all public areas, and as many others would be hesitant to cruise absent such a rule.  And many would be hesitant to cruise pre-vaccine under either scenario. If cruises begin pre-vaccine, there will of course be a good number who book with their FCCs before those expire. But after the FCCs are used or expired, and if there is still no vaccine, won’t the number of “new paying guests” be greatly reduced  compared with pre-pandemic bookings? 

 

In my opinion, it depends upon whether or not the virus can be contained.  There is a high percentage of repeat cruisers on Regent and most of them are anxious to cruise but are either afraid or think that following protocol would diminish their onboard experience.  If/when the numbers of new cases are on a downward trajectory and it has been determined that this was caused by wearing masks and distancing, there would likely be a group of cruisers that will return to Regent - even if they have to wear a mask.  

 

In the past couple of months, masks have come a long way.  We are now seeing some pretty sophisticated masks - ones that allow you to see the faces of the person wearing one and have better protection than in the past.  I would love to see people that wear a mask not have to social distance so you can have a conversation with someone near you.  This is not a farfetched idea.

 

IMO, there will be a vaccine within the next 6 months and certainly there will be by the time FCC's expire.  At that point, passengers will need to either have the vaccine or not cruise.  That will be up to them.  Since some of us are already booking cruises (with or without FCC's) I do not expect to see the numbers reduced in the future.  

 

I am finding it interesting that since the pandemic started, people are saving more money by not going out to restaurants, cruising, etc.  I read that people that have credit card debt are paying it down more rapidly than before.  So, those of us that are retired have even more money to put towards cruising than before the pandemic.  And, for now, the 125% FCC's are making Regent cruises more affordable than ever.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

This post is just a question.

Two questions sandwiching an opinion piece.

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10 hours ago, d9704011 said:

Two questions sandwiching an opinion piece.

No surprise

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4 minutes ago, pappy1022 said:

No surprise

One slice sourdough, the other, pumpernickel.

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11 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

In my opinion, it depends upon whether or not the virus can be contained.  There is a high percentage of repeat cruisers on Regent and most of them are anxious to cruise but are either afraid or think that following protocol would diminish their onboard experience.  If/when the numbers of new cases are on a downward trajectory and it has been determined that this was caused by wearing masks and distancing, there would likely be a group of cruisers that will return to Regent - even if they have to wear a mask.  

 

In the past couple of months, masks have come a long way.  We are now seeing some pretty sophisticated masks - ones that allow you to see the faces of the person wearing one and have better protection than in the past.  I would love to see people that wear a mask not have to social distance so you can have a conversation with someone near you.  This is not a farfetched idea.

 

IMO, there will be a vaccine within the next 6 months and certainly there will be by the time FCC's expire.  At that point, passengers will need to either have the vaccine or not cruise.  That will be up to them.  Since some of us are already booking cruises (with or without FCC's) I do not expect to see the numbers reduced in the future.  

 

I am finding it interesting that since the pandemic started, people are saving more money by not going out to restaurants, cruising, etc.  I read that people that have credit card debt are paying it down more rapidly than before.  So, those of us that are retired have even more money to put towards cruising than before the pandemic.  And, for now, the 125% FCC's are making Regent cruises more affordable than ever.  

 

 

At this point it appears we as a country are nowhere near containment.  The evidence (with the exception of two States) indicates the opposite.  Masks have come an integral part of life in many countries, and I anticipate we will be utilizing them here for quite some time.   When I was in training (in the early 80s),  is when we first discovered and diagnosed HIV/AIDS.  We had hysteria at that time primarily due to the lack of knowledge we had about such an opportunistic virus.  We still do not have an vaccine/immunization, but have excellent pharmaceutical management. We are still learning everyday about COVID-19.  This is a fierce, easily transmittable virus.

 

Vaccines take time and work.  I read that there are several that should start phase three trials this summer.  When a trial ends you just do not start administering.  You have to look at the data, etc.   I do personally think in time (certainly not the overly-optimistic time frame that you hear from the talking heads) that we will have a vaccine similar to the flu shot and/or a more effective  symptomatic treatment.   

 

At this point the Government is investing billions of dollars in vaccine development, unfortunately I think it is politics driving this versus science.  One of the companies that have taken the lead (and has received amazing amounts of taxpayer dollars) has never been able to bring a vaccine to market past three trials.  

 

Not to ruminate a prior post, due to our dependence on foreign manufacturing, at this point even if a pharma (or several) come up with a vaccine,  we would not even have the glass bottles that would contain the vaccine or even the syringes available.  

 

Optimism is good.  But I think we need to be honest and understand we are in somewhat uncharted waters.  One other thing one must put into the equation (and this is certainly above my pay grade) is at the end of September, PPP money runs out for businesses.  It is predicted that there will be massive layoffs (airlines as one example).  Put on top of that, many people and businesses have not paid their rent or mortgage in months.  Presently many State and local Governments have enacted policies of no evictions.  Just last month over 5 million people lost their health insurance in the US (due to layoff).  

 

In my gut, something tells me whether we can cruise in the next year or not, is not high on the list of what many of our scientists, politicians and public health experts are dealing with now.

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20 hours ago, Kwaj girl said:

Yet, would those 2 not then become like a 'household' in term of sharing space like a family does in their home?  They then 'share' similar germs and become immune to each other in that regard, no?  Hust a thought....

 

There's a misconception here.  The idea of a bubble or "household" group is not that they somehow become immune to each other.  This is wrong.  The idea is that a closed family group can be virus-free because they are isolated from others, and practice physical distancing, hygiene and mask-wearing while outside that group.

 

17 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

My belief is that Regent will not sail unless passengers are free to walk around the ship without masks.  Requiring masks for embarkation, bus trips, and disembarkation will be fine; but not on board.  Given that most of Europe is avoiding masks, will be interesting to know what Sea Dream, Hurtigruten, Aida, and Ponant are requiring with respect to masks.

 

Marc

 

Hurtigruten from what I've read, does not require masks onboard, although it's recommended I think.  But the other requirements are quite strict from what I've read.  And of course, the cruises they're (mostly) starting with are all along the coast of Norway, so close to medical facilities, and within a single country (and limited for now I believe, to  Norwegians.)

 

Looking at an interesting graph right now about mask acceptance in Europe: 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/

 

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1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

There's a misconception here.  The idea of a bubble or "household" group is not that they somehow become immune to each other.  This is wrong.  The idea is that a closed family group can be virus-free because they are isolated from others, and practice physical distancing, hygiene and mask-wearing while outside that group.

 

 

Hurtigruten from what I've read, does not require masks onboard, although it's recommended I think.  But the other requirements are quite strict from what I've read.  And of course, the cruises they're (mostly) starting with are all along the coast of Norway, so close to medical facilities, and within a single country (and limited for now I believe, to  Norwegians.)

 

Looking at an interesting graph right now about mask acceptance in Europe: 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1114375/wearing-a-face-mask-outside-in-european-countries/

 

In a review that I read of the first Hurtigruten cruise they also had far fewer passengers than they had planned on, that made social distancing that much easier.  The ship holds 600, they wanted around 300, and 150 took the cruise.  In addition, while there were many aquatic activities they could participate in off the ship, they could not land in any ports.  This may be a scenario US cruise ships use for the first few cruises.

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4 minutes ago, Ladys Mom said:

In a review that I read of the first Hurtigruten cruise they also had far fewer passengers than they had planned on, that made social distancing that much easier.  The ship holds 600, they wanted around 300, and 150 took the cruise.  In addition, while there were many aquatic activities they could participate in off the ship, they could not land in any ports.  This may be a scenario US cruise ships use for the first few cruises.

 

I believe with successive Hurtigruten trips they will allow excursions off the ship, but disallow any casual passengers getting on and off (which is usual.)  The excursions will be tightly controlled.  And yes, the capacity limits sound great.

 

I've got my sights on the Norwegian fjords, perhaps for next year, probably not on Regent.

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1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

I believe with successive Hurtigruten trips they will allow excursions off the ship, but disallow any casual passengers getting on and off (which is usual.)  The excursions will be tightly controlled.  And yes, the capacity limits sound great.

 

I've got my sights on the Norwegian fjords, perhaps for next year, probably not on Regent.

Point is that Hurtigruten is that its not quite a cruise although its becoming more like it. Its still a coastal supply /post ship as well, hence the stops at unusual hours, often quite short in time duration as well. There are excursions and more time at tourist stops like North Cape. But there is no comparison to Regent in suites, facilities or food, which is more cafeteria in style, plus no entertainment. Drinks are priced in Norwegian kroner, so probably the worlds most expensive place to buy alcohol.

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With all of this talk about foreign ships, I had to look them up.  While Hurtigruten may work for some people, it would not work for us (and we love the area where they sail).  Check out the cabin sizes: https://www.norwegiancoastalcruises.com/hurtigruten-cabins.htm

 

And here is CC's "take" on the cabins on Windstar. https://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=101&pgtype=cabins

 

It is interesting when a cruise line that has "free water" in the cabins feels it is necessary to comment on that fact.

 

While none of us are sure how these ships will fare from a health standpoint, not requiring masks is an automatic red flag for a lot of people.  Texas, Florida and Arizona were against masks and I don't think that I need to repeat what happened in those states.  

 

We trust Regent which, IMHO, is very important right now.  We want to cruise on a ship that values the information set forth by scientists and doctors rather than by governments.  When you have the U.K. with around 50% of people not wearing masks and the U.S. with an unknown percentage of people not wearing masks.

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4 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

Point is that Hurtigruten is that its not quite a cruise although its becoming more like it. Its still a coastal supply /post ship as well, hence the stops at unusual hours, often quite short in time duration as well. There are excursions and more time at tourist stops like North Cape. But there is no comparison to Regent in suites, facilities or food, which is more cafeteria in style, plus no entertainment. Drinks are priced in Norwegian kroner, so probably the worlds most expensive place to buy alcohol.

 

They did have a buffet I believe, although the main dining room is not.  Now all food is served to you.

 

This is not a luxury trip, for sure.  Think of it as an expedition trip.

 

And yes, not a good place to be a heavy drinker!  I remember when I was flying to Norway to visit, years ago, and asked what I could bring.  The overwhelming answer was, "whiskey"!

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On 7/13/2020 at 7:59 PM, Travelcat2 said:

 

I am finding it interesting that since the pandemic started, people are saving more money by not going out to restaurants, cruising, etc.  I read that people that have credit card debt are paying it down more rapidly than before.  So, those of us that are retired have even more money to put towards cruising than before the pandemic.  And, for now, the 125% FCC's are making Regent cruises more affordable than ever.  

 

 

Glad that it is working out for some but for many, the pandemic is crippling their finances. People are out of work and/or have their hours cut. More folks are going to food banks than ever before to feed their families. It is a shame that some folks only look at how they are doing and ignore the serious problems in this world. If you have an excess of money maybe it should be directed toward charities and people in real need vs. booking more cruises for personal satisfaction. 

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And, maybe just me, I'm planning for an increase in taxes all around, federal, state and local, affecting my personal budget.  

 

I'm sure most of us are doing a little more for others these days as well, if we're fortunate to have something extra in the budget. 

 

One tiny thing I've started doing is just tipping 50% or more on take out (where in the olden days I was hardly that generous).  I was a little ashamed of myself when I saw how surprised, and glad, the folks at the local gyros dive were.  Forty years in our community and they're struggling - and they make a darn good gyros as well.

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And, for those of us who are seniors and fortunate enough to be both retired and financially comfortable, if we're looking for charities that can specifically assist other seniors and retirees who are not so fortunate - this list is US-centric.

 

https://www.theseniorlist.com/blog/7-charities-that-benefit-seniors/#:~:text=Charities that Benefit Seniors 1 Alzheimer’s Foundation of,and Empowerment 7 Shepherd's Centers of America (SCA)

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19 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

With all of this talk about foreign ships, I had to look them up.  While Hurtigruten may work for some people, it would not work for us (and we love the area where they sail).  Check out the cabin sizes: https://www.norwegiancoastalcruises.com/hurtigruten-cabins.htm

 

And here is CC's "take" on the cabins on Windstar. https://www.cruisecritic.com/reviews/review.cfm?ShipID=101&pgtype=cabins

 

It is interesting when a cruise line that has "free water" in the cabins feels it is necessary to comment on that fact.

 

 

 

Thank you, TravelCat2, for the much needed laughs!  I love your droll understatement that Hurtigruten's cabins "would not work for us."  Also the comment about the "free water."  How about a Category D cabin with "wash basin only."  Fortunately, "all cabins are provided with towels."  I actually enjoy all your comments on Cruise Critic.  Keep it up!

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3 hours ago, CabinBoy2020 said:

 

Thank you, TravelCat2, for the much needed laughs!  I love your droll understatement that Hurtigruten's cabins "would not work for us."  Also the comment about the "free water."  How about a Category D cabin with "wash basin only."  Fortunately, "all cabins are provided with towels."  I actually enjoy all your comments on Cruise Critic.  Keep it up!

 

Now you have me laughing:classic_biggrin:  Thanks for the kind comments.

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The whole water thing on Hurtigruten is ridiculous.  When I was seriously contemplating doing one in 2018, I was following the discussions about the water thing.  Did you get a carafe of free water on your dining table or not?  

 

Certainly this cruise is not what we all call "luxury".  More like "expedition". I believe they're still very nice--you just can't help like Norwegians and how they conduct their lives.  I'm hopeful for the future of this itinerary, but would settle for Seabourn Montreal-Montreal around Nfld again, which is what we did instead of Norway.

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