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Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?


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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

Not hard to figure out. You get Covid on a cruise and the cruise is over. My money spent is wasted. In general though you are also extending the time to return to normal and giving mutations time to take root. You are hurting society. Very selfish. You should be concerned that if 70% of the population is vaccinated the and the mutated virus varients are more transmitable and deadly mutations the virus is going look for people to infect. The 20% to 30% that are unvaccinated will be the viruses' targets. 

Edited by Charles4515
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

 

Appreciate your personal choice. However if your view is that of the majority we will never get out of this horrendous situation with ruined economies, reduced life expectancy and worsening mental health. Not forgettting not being able to get on a cruise. Have you not been around for the last year?

 

Daily I speak to patients with Long Covid, current Covid and lost relatives. It is not fair on them to continue on this road.

 

I for one am sick of the current situation and my professionalism may be put to the test if anti-vaxxers become unwell.

 

In the UK I believe Ivermectin would need to be prescribed by a hospital specialist.

Edited by hawkesbaynz
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5 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 deadly mutations the virus is going look for people to infect. The 20% to 30% that are unvaccinated will be the viruses targets. 

Shame!

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19 minutes ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

Who is forcing you to be vaccinated?  Confused.

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1 hour ago, catty said:

you might want to discuss the use of ivermectin between you and your doctor for outpatient use.  There are dozens of observational and some formal studies of ivermectin throughout the world except in the Western world.  The overwhelming number of them are positive.  

 

This came out on March 4 re ivermectin in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association):

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

 

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4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Curious as to why is your state AL so high in positivity rate?  Your governor is lifting the mask mandate there April 9th.  Texas is very high too.  No masks as of March 10.  FL has no state mask mandate but the large cities and counties in FL do.  Surges in the No Mask states will impact the rest of us for cruising and traveling.  Maybe the No Mask states should be subject to receiving less vaccine distributions?  Just a thought.

 

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html

Curious as to why you think people in no mask states should be penalized for mandates beyond their control.

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1 hour ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

 

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

Not hard to figure out. You get Covid on a cruise and the cruise is over. My money spent is wasted. In general though you are also extending the time to return to normal and giving mutations time to take root. You are hurting society. Very selfish. You should be concerned that if 70% of the population is vaccinated the and the mutated virus varients are more transmitable and deadly mutations the virus is going look for people to infect. The 20% to 30% that are unvaccinated will be the viruses' targets. 

Anyone who would ask that question a year into the pandemic either can't or won't accept the fact that their behaviour has an impact on others. Consequently, I no longer bother attempting to explain, as all they are doing is trying to stir the pot.

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2 hours ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different result.  How many Covid surges do we have to suffer before we realize the vaccine and masking are the most effective strategies to put this behind once and for all!!  Will never be able to freely enjoy our lives, including cruises unless almost all of us (70-85%) get vaccinated, and that includes cruising.

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2 hours ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

The fact that you are even asking this...has nothing to do with cruising just has something to do with getting on with our lives

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2 hours ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

Very simple every person that does not take the vaccine is another opportunity for infection.  Every infection is another opportunity for mutation as well as a potential source of spread to others including those that due to medical condition cannot take the vaccine.

 

The more people that get vaccinated, the less opportunity for spread and the less opportunity for mutation.

 

Especially since the data from more recent studies indicate that the vaccine does significantly reduce asymptomatic cases and spread.

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3 hours ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

That is your right, but aren't  you limiting your future?   It is likely that cruise lines will require vaccines to cruise, or even international airline travel.  More importantly, you are more likely to get the virus and pass it on to others (your family?) that may not be vaccinated.

 

Not sure about the mutation fear here.  That may be the case, so why take a chance?

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9 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Curious as to why is your state AL so high in positivity rate?  Your governor is lifting the mask mandate there April 9th.  Texas is very high too.  No masks as of March 10.  FL has no state mask mandate but the large cities and counties in FL do.  Surges in the No Mask states will impact the rest of us for cruising and traveling.  Maybe the No Mask states should be subject to receiving less vaccine distributions?  Just a thought.

 

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html

Tee Rick, no one (much) gets tested unless they are symptomatic. Little to no epidemiological testing outside college students. Ongoing difficulties in reporting - lots of pop-up labs don’t realize they have to report all Covid testing (Covid is the ONLY reportable disease where both pos and negative tests have to be reported, that threw ALL of us for a loop. Our automated reporting had to be rewritten, because it collected positives only). And we have urgent cares, but I don’t think Minute Clinics in drug stores are legal. It is hard to get a Covid test for travel.

 I know that JHU and national news outlets make a big deal about the % positivity metric, but it is meaningless in Alabama, and anywhere else that there is minimal epidemiological testing. We will be close to herd immunity when our %positive tests gets as low as they want, maybe never, lol! The number of new cases and hospitalization rate plateaued last week, but as of Friday, started a slight decline. There is always a dip on weekends, so I don’t believe it yet. I know we have the lowest # of inpatients since last summer.

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10 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

After reading about the positivity rate dropping below 5% in Florida, even for one day,

 

Florida COVID update for Saturday: 4,690 new cases, 98 deaths. Positivity dips below 5% (msn.com)

 

I now have a new JHU chart to monitor:

 

Which U.S. States Meet Recommended Positivity Levels? - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

 

Wow! I really need to get back to cruising! 🙃

Positivity rate is the worst imaginable metric imho.  It should be high. We're a year into this and the authorities are thinking of that doing a horrible job in determining who might have covid is a good thing.    Instead, getting it wrong 90+% of the time is viewed as a good thing.   And at this point, who is getting tested so much and why? 

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1 minute ago, D C said:

Positivity rate is the worst imaginable metric imho.  It should be high. We're a year into this and the authorities are thinking of that doing a horrible job in determining who might have covid is a good thing.    Instead, getting it wrong 90+% of the time is viewed as a good thing.   And at this point, who is getting tested so much and why? 

Not exactly? The idea originally was that you do tons and tons of prevalence testing - somewhat random testing of asymptomatic people, and contact trace the positives. In that scenario low % positive is good. Why anyone ever thought that would work when there was no approved test, I never quite understood, but that was epidemiological SOP. 
In my state there’s not much random testing, only testing of people who think they may be sick, persons needing surgery or other interventions and the few people traveling internationally.

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21 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Tee Rick, no one (much) gets tested unless they are symptomatic. Little to no epidemiological testing outside college students. Ongoing difficulties in reporting - lots of pop-up labs don’t realize they have to report all Covid testing (Covid is the ONLY reportable disease where both pos and negative tests have to be reported, that threw ALL of us for a loop. Our automated reporting had to be rewritten, because it collected positives only). And we have urgent cares, but I don’t think Minute Clinics in drug stores are legal. It is hard to get a Covid test for travel.

 I know that JHU and national news outlets make a big deal about the % positivity metric, but it is meaningless in Alabama, and anywhere else that there is minimal epidemiological testing. We will be close to herd immunity when our %positive tests gets as low as they want, maybe never, lol! The number of new cases and hospitalization rate plateaued last week, but as of Friday, started a slight decline. There is always a dip on weekends, so I don’t believe it yet. I know we have the lowest # of inpatients since last summer.

Thanks @cangelmdfor explaining many of the reasons why AL's positive rate numbers seem so high. And you definitely nailed it when you said we couldn't even get tested for COVID unless we had symptoms and, of course, you also had to call first to make an appointment to get tested. Dont even think of just popping in unannounced.

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6 hours ago, MarkWiltonM said:

 

This came out on March 4 re ivermectin in JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association):

 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389

 

This was a study that said Ivermectin was no better than a placebo, but you may want to take a look at this before concluding that:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynnQK6An_8

 

It appears that it was supposed to be a study on Ivermectin preventing worsening conditions for covid-19 patients, but very few got worse whether in the Placebo or Ivermectin group.   If both groups had a same number of worsening patients, the study would have the correct conclusion  If hardly anyone got worst, you have a lousy sample group.  

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2 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Our R value has been less than 1 for a month

Your case number are now the lowest since they have been since were last July. A good start compared to Jan 1.

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1 hour ago, deadzone1003 said:

This was a study that said Ivermectin was no better than a placebo, but you may want to take a look at this before concluding that:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynnQK6An_8

 

It appears that it was supposed to be a study on Ivermectin preventing worsening conditions for covid-19 patients, but very few got worse whether in the Placebo or Ivermectin group.   If both groups had a same number of worsening patients, the study would have the correct conclusion  If hardly anyone got worst, you have a lousy sample group.  

From what I have read most Ivermectin COVID  19 studies have been small.  While some have shown some benefit, just as some have shown no benefit, the small sizes of the studies mean that they are not sufficiently powered to deliver conclusive results.

 

It appears though that in the more recent better powered studies the results have generally been negative.

 

 

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2 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

This was a study that said Ivermectin was no better than a placebo, but you may want to take a look at this before concluding that:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynnQK6An_8

 

It appears that it was supposed to be a study on Ivermectin preventing worsening conditions for covid-19 patients, but very few got worse whether in the Placebo or Ivermectin group.   If both groups had a same number of worsening patients, the study would have the correct conclusion  If hardly anyone got worst, you have a lousy sample group.  

From a physician standpoint, doubt Ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquin would do any good based on studies.  However, just saw 60 minutes segment on fluvoxamine used for OCD which was surprisingly effective in several small scale studies for treatment of Covid.  Published in JAMA.  NIH and private groups now studying.  Promising even to an old jaded doc like myself.  Still, vaccines best hope for future.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe, something is better on the horizon - Molnupiravir - 5 day treatment that get rid of the virus in 5 days for early treatment.  A Merck drug that is phase II study.

 

It is in pill form!

Edited by deadzone1003
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11 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Tee Rick, no one (much) gets tested unless they are symptomatic. Little to no epidemiological testing outside college students. Ongoing difficulties in reporting - lots of pop-up labs don’t realize they have to report all Covid testing (Covid is the ONLY reportable disease where both pos and negative tests have to be reported, that threw ALL of us for a loop. Our automated reporting had to be rewritten, because it collected positives only). And we have urgent cares, but I don’t think Minute Clinics in drug stores are legal. It is hard to get a Covid test for travel.

 I know that JHU and national news outlets make a big deal about the % positivity metric, but it is meaningless in Alabama, and anywhere else that there is minimal epidemiological testing. We will be close to herd immunity when our %positive tests gets as low as they want, maybe never, lol! The number of new cases and hospitalization rate plateaued last week, but as of Friday, started a slight decline. There is always a dip on weekends, so I don’t believe it yet. I know we have the lowest # of inpatients since last summer.

Thank you for the detailed answer!

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18 hours ago, catty said:

Not buying this at all. If you take a vaccine and it makes you safe, that’s great. But why force me to take it? How is that hurting anyone? 

Don't take it your choice.  Don't expect to cruise any time soon.

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