Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[D C]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

I wonder the same thing.  How do you guarantee you can get results of the test on time?

That's the tricky part.  Test times can vary immensely.   

 

I recall one of the airlines partnering with a lab/clinic (?) for pre-flight testing to visit Hawaii.  Such a priority arrangement would be welcome. 

 

Hopefully testing of vaccinated people isn't required as countries update their policies. 

[NMTraveller]

12 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Funny thing, I had a dream last night that I was in a huge check-in process for a cruise for a room full of anti-maskers flaunting the requirement.  

You will see some of those at the airport.  Or they make sure that they are eating or drinking all of the time.

[nocl]

11 hours ago, markeb said:

 

I remain flabbergasted at all the stumbles and pitfalls of AZ. I don't know what to make of this one, as their clinical trials were generally big enough to have at least hinted at a problem big enough to change the age recommendations. At the 1:1,000,000 incidence, probably not. But the over 55 recommendation is going to all but eliminate them in the US; we're going to have that age group covered soon. And the most hospitalized group today is apparently 40-65 (fewer than the over 65 peak, but that age group isn't getting hospitalized nearly as much with vaccination). As could have been predicted, the push to vaccinate the highest risk changed the highest risk group of the remaining population...

Here is an interesting article talking about the mechanism

 

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/30/blood-clots-and-the-az-vaccine-revisited

 

 

Unfortunately as they dig into this I am growing concerned that there will be more news coming and not in a good way.
 

Edited March 31, 2021 by nocl

[BigAl94]

Looks like they will need to work hard to modify vaccines

 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9419815/Two-thirds-experts-believe-coronavirus-variants-make-vaccines-ineffective-ONE-YEAR.html

[TeeRick]

11 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

I wonder the same thing.  How do you guarantee you can get results of the test on time?

You might have to pay for a rapid turn-around PCR test at one of those urgent care clinics that have opened up everywhere.  Just remember the cost of the cruise and transportation and think about this as a small added cost to cruise for the time being.

[4774Papa]

9 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

You will see some of those at the airport.  Or they make sure that they are eating or drinking all of the time.

My physician advises me that simple cloth masks provide little protection for people, but emphasized that when the people that have COVID19 wear masks that provides more protection for others.

 

“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong."

[TeeRick]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

Here is an interesting article talking about the mechanism

 

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/30/blood-clots-and-the-az-vaccine-revisited

 

 

Unfortunately as they dig into this I am growing concerned that there will be more news coming and not in a good way.
 

Thank you for posting.  There are a lot of interesting comments following the actual article.

One thing to think about here is that there is still the very low risk of this side effect in women under 55.  Needs to be balanced with the risk of COVID, risk of long haul syndrome, etc.  And risk of blood clots from COVID itself.   There is a higher risk of blood clots and thrombocytopenia from contraception, excess alcohol consumption, smoking, and hormone therapies to name a few.   And maybe those risks overall should be communicated plainly and the woman should decide - not necessarily the politicians.  Many women decide to take contraceptives every day knowing there is an elevated risk of blood clots (much higher than this vaccine). Also awareness of the event in the vaccine communications should be clearly explained as the condition is treatable.  

[NMTraveller]

37 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

My physician advises me that simple cloth masks provide little protection for people, but emphasized that when the people that have COVID19 wear masks that provides more protection for others.

 

“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong."

I will typically wear an N95 mask at the airport or KN95.  

 

My point was even though there is a mask mandate at the airport it is not strictly followed or enforced.  The same in every state I have been in.

 

Whether mask mandates are enforced on a cruise is another matter.  I have not seen any enforcement yet.

Edited March 31, 2021 by NMTraveller

[TeeRick]

5 hours ago, BigAl94 said:

Looks like they will need to work hard to modify vaccines

 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9419815/Two-thirds-experts-believe-coronavirus-variants-make-vaccines-ineffective-ONE-YEAR.html

Thank you.  I saw this too.  This is a survey of opinions with no data one way or the other.  If current vaccines are "ineffective" what does that really mean?  That they do not any longer prevent hospitalizations and deaths?  Or just more people get mild cases of the circulating variant strain?  Remember that the vaccine protection is not just antibodies but also T cells.  Also all of the vaccine companies have already made variant vaccines and some are already being tested in the clinic.  

[docsneeze]

Briefly, 3 quick things.  Recent research just out. 1. Vaccines effective and apparently safe for pregnant and breastfeeding mothers. Additionally, pass protective antibodies through breast milk.  2. Report this am, Pfizer vaccine effective and safe down to 12 y/o.  3. Accumulating evidence that vaccines effective against more contagious UK variant.  In sum, making progress and just need more people to get vaccinated so we can sail again.

[GlobalMethod]

17 minutes ago, docsneeze said:

Briefly, 3 quick things.  Recent research just out. 1. Vaccines effective and apparently safe for pregnant and breastfeeding mothers. Additionally, pass protective antibodies through breast milk.  2. Report this am, Pfizer vaccine effective and safe down to 12 y/o.  3. Accumulating evidence that vaccines effective against more contagious UK variant.  In sum, making progress and just need more people to get vaccinated so we can sail again.

Your comment that more people need to get vaccinated strikes to the heart of the matter. Many are now considering European travel but testing has been slow to arrive for many (I live in Greece) and we are just being offered our 1st jab on 4/2 ... the 2nd is 6/2 ... so your other point that we are making progress is accurate but these processes move at different speeds in different places.

[Ken the cruiser]

Wow, this is definitely good news!!

 

Covid vaccine: Pfizer says shot is 100% effective in kids 12 to 15 (cnbc.com)

[cantstopingcruising]

1 hour ago, 4774Papa said:

My physician advises me that simple cloth masks provide little protection for people, but emphasized that when the people that have COVID19 wear masks that provides more protection for others.

 

“I think there’s enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but you’re still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you don’t have COVID-19,” said Chin-Hong."

Because of the varients all around us, we are now double masking. A medical mask with a cloth mask over it. That is what we are advised to do.

[cantstopingcruising]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Thank you for posting.  There are a lot of interesting comments following the actual article.

One thing to think about here is that there is still the very low risk of this side effect in women under 55.  Needs to be balanced with the risk of COVID, risk of long haul syndrome, etc.  And risk of blood clots from COVID itself.   There is a higher risk of blood clots and thrombocytopenia from contraception, excess alcohol consumption, smoking, and hormone therapies to name a few.   And maybe those risks overall should be communicated plainly and the woman should decide - not necessarily the politicians.  Many women decide to take contraceptives every day knowing there is an elevated risk of blood clots (much higher than this vaccine). Also awareness of the event in the vaccine communications should be clearly explained as the condition is treatable.  

It was explained to us that the clot from AZ is a different kind than all the others. It is much more dangerous. I don't remember all the details, but anyone interested could probably look it up.

 

IMO, if you are the one to get the clot, it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% get it. All that matters is that you got it. I wouldn't want anyone to be THE ONE.

[kelmac]

As I'm headed out the door to get my second Pfizer vaccine shot, this caught my eye:

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state?utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR3EhFGj2NSvdIN08-XvQOxl12cw05o4z-yIbCaie6f08UJ_hxY2VWpj5ms

 

Apparently, my state is number one in vaccine distribution, which is great, as we are very rarely number one in anything.😉  We've received 1,337,435 doses and have administered 1,239,316, which is 93%.

So 37.5% have received at least one jab, and 23.1% are fully vaccinated.

Kel

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, docsneeze said:

Briefly, 3 quick things.  Recent research just out. 1. Vaccines effective and apparently safe for pregnant and breastfeeding mothers. Additionally, pass protective antibodies through breast milk.  2. Report this am, Pfizer vaccine effective and safe down to 12 y/o.  3. Accumulating evidence that vaccines effective against more contagious UK variant.  In sum, making progress and just need more people to get vaccinated so we can sail again.

All good things.  I would expect the vaccines to have high efficacy in kids.  I think people will be more concerned about long-term safety.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, cantstopingcruising said:

It was explained to us that the clot from AZ is a different kind than all the others. It is much more dangerous. I don't remember all the details, but anyone interested could probably look it up.

 

IMO, if you are the one to get the clot, it doesn't matter if 1% or 99% get it. All that matters is that you got it. I wouldn't want anyone to be THE ONE.

Yes the serious risk is actually called thrombocytopenia.  A very rare disorder of low blood platelets.

 

https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/sciencebrief/vaccine-induced-prothrombotic-immune-thrombocytopenia-vipit-following-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination/

[cantstopingcruising]

41 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Yes the serious risk is actually called thrombocytopenia.  A very rare disorder of low blood platelets.

 

https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/sciencebrief/vaccine-induced-prothrombotic-immune-thrombocytopenia-vipit-following-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccination/

I knew we could rely on you for the answer!  Thanks!

[D C]

2 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Wow, this is definitely good news!!

 

Covid vaccine: Pfizer says shot is 100% effective in kids 12 to 15 (cnbc.com)

But no shot at all is pretty effective in that same group.  I really wonder if this is the best use of vaccines.

[docsneeze]

16 minutes ago, D C said:

But no shot at all is pretty effective in that same group.  I really wonder if this is the best use of vaccines.

Adolescents can still be asymptomatic carriers and spread disease.  Recent studies strongly suggest the vaccines may also reduce transmission.  So yes, it is a good use of vaccines after the older groups have been vaccinated.

[zitsky]

55 minutes ago, D C said:

But no shot at all is pretty effective in that same group.  I really wonder if this is the best use of vaccines.

 

I don't understand your comment.  You would prefer that kids remain unvaccinated?  Just as they are thrown together with the rest of us.

[UnorigionalName]

Data is finally here, showing what was expected all along:

 

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/03/cdc-data-suggests-vaccinated-dont-carry-cant-spread-virus.html

 

“Vaccinated people do not carry the virus — they don’t get sick,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow on Tuesday. That’s “not just in the clinical trials, but it’s also in real-world data.”

[D C]

47 minutes ago, docsneeze said:

Adolescents can still be asymptomatic carriers and spread disease.  Recent studies strongly suggest the vaccines may also reduce transmission.  So yes, it is a good use of vaccines after the older groups have been vaccinated.

 

8 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

I don't understand your comment.  You would prefer that kids remain unvaccinated?  Just as they are thrown together with the rest of us.

 

The proposal to vaccinate kids is not to protect them. It's a fear that they're carriers and will spread it to others, yet they catch covid at a rate that's a small fraction of that of adults, and they can even develop antibodies without ever testing positive.  

 

There are ~60 million kids 14 & under in the US.  

There are ~65 million adults in the US that will voluntarily remain unvaccinated (assuming a 75% acceptance rate among adults).

 

A vaccinated adult is, in all likelihood, going to be completely immune to a snot-nosed kid who actually happens to show some symptoms and be contagious.  Same as if we were talking about influenza.  A very small portion of vaccinated adults who happen to come into contact with said snot-nosed kid will develop symptoms.  But that relatively rare kid and that relatively rare adult need to meet.  Tiny chance of that happening.   Leave the kids unvaccinated and send those vaccines to other places that are struggling to get their vulnerable adults protected. 

 

[hcat]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

All good things.  I would expect the vaccines to have high efficacy in kids.  I think people will be more concerned about long-term safety.

I think you are correct

   Not too many moms and dads who we know  are fully  in favor of vaccinating their  young children right now.  Some are  concerned schools will require it.  I think more  data would be needed to impose  that..

Tough decisions...

[cantstopingcruising]

4 hours ago, D C said:

But no shot at all is pretty effective in that same group.  I really wonder if this is the best use of vaccines.

 

the kids are carriers

 

Sorry, I wrote this before reading similar responses

Edited March 31, 2021 by cantstopingcruising