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Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?


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Posted (edited)

As I was reading this article, it dawned on me I never see any public service ads on our local TV stations with regards to the benefits of getting a COVID vaccine, probably because it has been in short supply for quite sometime. But, if the supply is out pacing the demand maybe it's time for some public service announcements. Just a thought ...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/states-see-rise-unused-vaccines-demand-flattens-shifting-focus-hesitancy

Edited by Ken the cruiser
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13 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

There was a huge difference with Ted Covid vaccines compared to what happened before.  The FDA usually took weeks to respond.  A covid vaccine request took hours.  Sometimes instant via a verbal answer.

Not only that but there were plenty of people willing to sign up to participate in the clinical trials.  It can take years to completely enroll a trial of this size.

 

Also the disease incidence was high enough that they were able to get a statistically meaningful number of cases in a relatively short time.

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8 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

As I was reading this article, it dawned on me I never see any public service ads on our local TV stations with regards to the benefits of getting a COVID vaccine, probably because it has been in short supply for quite sometime. But, if the supply is out pacing the demand maybe it's time for some public service announcements. Just a thought ...

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/states-see-rise-unused-vaccines-demand-flattens-shifting-focus-hesitancy

Now we are going to see the next problem with the short shelf life for these vaccines.  Once demand drops there is going to be a lot of wastage.

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4 minutes ago, nocl said:

Now we are going to see the next problem with the short shelf life for these vaccines.  Once demand drops there is going to be a lot of wastage.

Shelf life is not a concern when stored at the proper low temps, and we're not remotely close to that point yet as far as I can tell. 

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Booster: some updates from the Pfizer trial:  My husband & SIL just got the phone call, they will both be in the booster trial :)   DH will get his booster this Wednesday,   everyone in the trial will get a booster, but it will be either 10 or 5 milligrams, followed by blood draws every 10 days or so...  very excited about this development.... sounds like I will get it too, but in about 4 months :)

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43 minutes ago, D C said:

Shelf life is not a concern when stored at the proper low temps, and we're not remotely close to that point yet as far as I can tell. 

At this point it is not an issue.  The problem is when you reach the point that cannot schedule doses to use full vials efficiently. Since once you unfreeze a vial you have to use it all in 6 hours. Sooner or later you are going to start running into the situation where the vials cannot be used efficiently.

 

Consider that there are over 200 regional distribution centers (the warehouses that normal supply hospitals and drug stores) they feed to thousands of pharmacies.  So if you keep a large number of  vaccination locations (something that will want to do in order to make it convenient to encourage more to vaccinate) you are going to have a lot of product in a large number of locations, where you are going to be dealing with a slowing pace of injections.

 

Sometime over the next few months the wastage issue will raise its head. then one will have to face the question are we willing to waste most of the doses in a vial to pick up the occasional individual to be vaccinated.  Or do we avoid wastage by trying to batch them into the number for a full vial, losing some to the the inconvenience.

 

Then your start running into the 2 week max refrigeration time limit.

 

It is going to be a question of how are they going to balance convenience to maximize vaccinations compared to the level of wastage. Especially when the rush is over and we start going back to normal distribution channels as the primary mechanism.

 

In most cases the distribution centers do not want to even touch product with less that 12 month shelf life.  Most pharmacies will not take product with less than 6 months until expiration.  Even then there is a lot of expired product that gets thrown out every day.  

Edited by nocl
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31 minutes ago, cruise kitty said:

Booster: some updates from the Pfizer trial:  My husband & SIL just got the phone call, they will both be in the booster trial 🙂   DH will get his booster this Wednesday,   everyone in the trial will get a booster, but it will be either 10 or 5 milligrams, followed by blood draws every 10 days or so...  very excited about this development.... sounds like I will get it too, but in about 4 months 🙂

Since the Pfizer CEO indicated that the booster would be required probably before 12 months.  That would imply that they are starting to see antibody drop offs in the trial volunteers.  Have you heard anything?

 

How long ago did your husband get his vaccine?

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8 minutes ago, nocl said:

Since the Pfizer CEO indicated that the booster would be required probably before 12 months.  That would imply that they are starting to see antibody drop offs in the trial volunteers.  Have you heard anything?

 

How long ago did your husband get his vaccine?

 

his booster will be exactly 6 months from his first shot....  they are including small groups of people from each month...  so they are comparing people who've been vaccinated anywhere from a year to 6 months from what I can see...  (this is my speculation based on other people I know who got the call tonight & knowing when they received their first shot)  

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On 4/15/2021 at 11:08 AM, Mary229 said:

Thanks for posting this.  I do want to remind people that the states can only administer what is delivered to them.  The real measure is how many vaccines for the week are not delivered by week's end.  Texas looks awful on this chart but they have a history of delivering every single vaccine provided.  

Found the Texas Dashboard.  As of today 15,493,454 vaccines have been given of the 21,385,845 received.  Sure seems like Texas is getting a lot of shots in arms considering the size of the state. Oh, and the CDC NUMBERS are even better.

Edited by Oville
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1 hour ago, cruise kitty said:

 

his booster will be exactly 6 months from his first shot....  they are including small groups of people from each month...  so they are comparing people who've been vaccinated anywhere from a year to 6 months from what I can see...  (this is my speculation based on other people I know who got the call tonight & knowing when they received their first shot)  

Thank you

 

That makes sense if they expect the booster to be needed at 12 months or before and want to look at both the drop off and how well the booster raises levels.

 

Do you know if the booster will be original or one aimed at the B.1.351 variants as well?

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3 minutes ago, nocl said:

Thank you

 

That makes sense if they expect the booster to be needed at 12 months or before and want to look at both the drop off and how well the booster raises levels.

 

Do you know if the booster will be original or one aimed at the B.1.351 variants as well?

this I honestly don't know...  will update after his appointment....  since the only blind part of this study is what dosage you receive, I'm guessing the new release he will sign will be very detailed as to what if any variants they are targeting 

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Just now, cruise kitty said:

this I honestly don't know...  will update after his appointment....  since the only blind part of this study is what dosage you receive, I'm guessing the new release he will sign will be very detailed as to what if any variants they are targeting 

It looks like this is the trial.  Original vaccine.  You were right on the 6 to 12 months.

 

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728?term=pfizer&cond=Covid19&cntry=US&draw=2&rank=5

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, D C said:

Shelf life is not a concern when stored at the proper low temps, and we're not remotely close to that point yet as far as I can tell. 

It appears that Pfizer is well along on their Lyophilized version.  They are running a trial to test it.

 

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04816669?term=pfizer&cond=Covid19&cntry=US&draw=2&rank=4

 

That will take care of the deep freeze requirement.

 

 

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On 4/3/2021 at 7:34 PM, farmermd said:


can you please explain to me how me not wearing a seatbelt puts everyone else at risk?

Sure -its simple actually.

 

If a driver doesn't wear a seat belt (against the law of course)...and a sudden action is required that results in their inability to retain control of a vehicle...all the rest of the passengers are placed in harm's way unnecessarily.  Scary that this requires explanation to anyone.

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7 hours ago, cruise kitty said:

Booster: some updates from the Pfizer trial:  My husband & SIL just got the phone call, they will both be in the booster trial 🙂   DH will get his booster this Wednesday,   everyone in the trial will get a booster, but it will be either 10 or 5 milligrams, followed by blood draws every 10 days or so...  very excited about this development.... sounds like I will get it too, but in about 4 months 🙂

Are you getting the booster in 4 months as part of the trial or is that when they expect to start giving it to regular people?

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

OK. Someone needs to explain this miracle nasal treatment because the way I read it, it's sound like a BIG deal if you happen to test positive for COVID, like when you're on a cruise ship. Am I overreaching here?

 

Patients with a self-administered nasal spray application found to have reduced SARS-CoV-2 log viral load by more than 95% in infected participants within 24 hours of treatment, and by more than 99% in 72 hours

Edited by Ken the cruiser
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10 hours ago, nocl said:

Since the Pfizer CEO indicated that the booster would be required probably before 12 months.  That would imply that they are starting to see antibody drop offs in the trial volunteers.  Have you heard anything?

 

How long ago did your husband get his vaccine?

In all fairness, he did say they MAY be required and there was a lot they still needed to learn. So studies make sense. 

 

A variant booster seems logical if we start seeing severe illness and death among the vaccinated because of them. 

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9 hours ago, Oville said:

Found the Texas Dashboard.  As of today 15,493,454 vaccines have been given of the 21,385,845 received.  Sure seems like Texas is getting a lot of shots in arms considering the size of the state. Oh, and the CDC NUMBERS are even better.

I think Texas is in the bottom 1/3 of the US in Vaccine distribution?

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/01/28/960901166/how-is-the-covid-19-vaccination-campaign-going-in-your-state

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK. Someone needs to explain this miracle nasal treatment because the way I read it, it's sound like a BIG deal if you happen to test positive for COVID, like when you're on a cruise ship. Am I overreaching here?

 

Patients with a self-administered nasal spray application found to have reduced SARS-CoV-2 log viral load by more than 95% in infected participants within 24 hours of treatment, and by more than 99% in 72 hours

Just to follow-up with another question. IF SaNOtize is able to get an EUA approved in the UK and Canada for their NONS nasal spray, would the cruise lines be allowed to offer it as an optional onboard medical treatment in their detailed CDC Phase 2 protocols, even if the FDA hasn't issued an EUA for the nasal spray yet?

 

SaNOtize Seeking Emergency Use Authorization in UK and Canada

 

SaNOtize is applying to regulatory authorities in the UK and Canada for Emergency Use authorization. Swift approval and ramp-up of manufacturing could facilitate an almost immediate safe return to work, school and society, and spur an economic recovery that is months – if not years – ahead of full global vaccination.

Edited by Ken the cruiser
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20 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK. Someone needs to explain this miracle nasal treatment because the way I read it, it's sound like a BIG deal if you happen to test positive for COVID, like when you're on a cruise ship. Am I overreaching here?

 

Patients with a self-administered nasal spray application found to have reduced SARS-CoV-2 log viral load by more than 95% in infected participants within 24 hours of treatment, and by more than 99% in 72 hours

Ken, I have never heard of this approach until you posted it.  The drug seems to be a nasal spray that releases NO (Nitric Oxide).  There are other nutritional supplements and drugs that have been used for years to release your natural NO in your body.  See link below.  This approach releases it in your nose and upper respiratory tract to reduce viral load amount during a viral infection as they claim from their phase 2 study.  So it is non-specific in that it does not target any one viral protein or function, but rather just kills the whole virus.  My guess is that it might work against other viruses in your respiratory track (other cold viruses?  Influenza?) but probably needs to work before it gets into the lungs.  I would think that even if it wipes out 99% of your virus after two days, some of the virus along the way has already entered some of your susceptible cells through the ACE2 receptor.  Once that happens it replicates inside the cell in an exponential way.  It is beyond the reach of NO.  The same for the other 1% of the virus that survives.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nitric-oxide-supplements

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14 minutes ago, D C said:

In all fairness, he did say they MAY be required and there was a lot they still needed to learn. So studies make sense. 

 

A variant booster seems logical if we start seeing severe illness and death among the vaccinated because of them. 

Not sure if you get the daily feed from Medscape.  Today a rather informative article was posted on the very miniscule amount of breakthrough cases requiring hospitalization after full vaccination. There were a number of comments from Dr. Bill Gruber, Pfizer's Sr VP of Clinical Research in the article with good information on how Pfizer is approaching variants including sequencing of breakthrough cases.

 

 

From the article:

"As of April 12, South Carolina's health department said it had identified 155 cases of breakthrough infection, which is less than 0.02% of about 950,500 people in the state who have completed their vaccination course. That's a similar rate to that reported in Washington state, where, as of March 30, 102 breakthrough cases were reported out of more than 1 million fully vaccinated people. Eight people, or 0.0008% of those fully vaccinated, were hospitalized. Oregon's experience is also similar, with about 0.02% of 700,000 fully vaccinated Oregonians experiencing breakthrough infections so far. Three out of those 168 people died."

 

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/949381?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=370300SV&impID=3316056&faf=1#vp_1

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8 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Ken, I have never heard of this approach until you posted it.  The drug seems to be a nasal spray that releases NO (Nitric Oxide).  There are other nutritional supplements and drugs that have been used for years to release your natural NO in your body.  See link below.  This approach releases it in your nose and upper respiratory tract to reduce viral load amount during a viral infection as they claim from their phase 2 study.  So it is non-specific in that it does not target any one viral protein or function, but rather just kills the whole virus.  My guess is that it might work against other viruses in your respiratory track (other cold viruses?  Influenza?) but probably needs to work before it gets into the lungs.  I would think that even if it wipes out 99% of your virus after two days, some of the virus along the way has already entered some of your susceptible cells through the ACE2 receptor.  Once that happens it replicates inside the cell in an exponential way.  It is beyond the reach of NO.  The same for the other 1% of the virus that survives.

 

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/nitric-oxide-supplements

Thanks. Actually, @4774Papaposted the article in port #4691, to give credit where the credit is due. But it will be interesting to see how this nasal remedy evolves as it makes its way through the process.  

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1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Thanks. Actually, @4774Papaposted the article in port #4691, to give credit where the credit is due. But it will be interesting to see how this nasal remedy evolves as it makes its way through the process.  

Yes thanks @4774Papa

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58 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK. Someone needs to explain this miracle nasal treatment because the way I read it, it's sound like a BIG deal if you happen to test positive for COVID, like when you're on a cruise ship. Am I overreaching here?

 

Patients with a self-administered nasal spray application found to have reduced SARS-CoV-2 log viral load by more than 95% in infected participants within 24 hours of treatment, and by more than 99% in 72 hours

I know someone with Merck that told me about something like this and he said the key will be to use the treatment early.

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