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Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?


Ken the cruiser
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4 hours ago, Homosassa said:

I could, but I won't.

 

It is time that those who are capable of doing their own research do so. 

 

It took years, but I finally understood those annoying teachers that when asked a question, would tell you to look it up. They were teachers, not enablers.

 

2 hours ago, D C said:

If that's your approach, it might be helpful to actually communicate your concern before setting others off in search of the unknown with a few seemingly random search terms.  

 

I know what he's referring to and it's idiotic.  There is absolutely nothing out there from legitimate sites or news sources.  Period. 

 

But to hammer it home, here's what WebMD says about it:  Why COVID Vaccines are Falsely Linked to Infertility

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5 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

 

I know what he's referring to and it's idiotic.  There is absolutely nothing out there from legitimate sites or news sources.  Period. 

 

But to hammer it home, here's what WebMD says about it:  Why COVID Vaccines are Falsely Linked to Infertility


Actually he’s referencing male infertility. Different subject. There are a number of articles, but I frankly haven’t looked that closely at them. The article you’re referencing is on infertility in women from the vaccine, and that as the WebMD article states, there’s little or no evidence of that. 
 

The male infertility issues relate to actual viral infection, not vaccine effects. A lot of the articles are very early in the pandemic, so they could be transient effects. I’ll look at a few more thoroughly over the next couple of days.

 

And there are early articles in refereed publications. I’ll take those over news accounts any day. 

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10 hours ago, CI66774 said:

Wrong. CDC merely issues guidance. It does NOT make law not does it supersede state law.

Wrong. They most certainly do “make” law through regulation (VSP is one example). Their regulatory power is why they were able to stop cruising in its tracks in March 2020. And they can continue to restrict any cruise line from sailing unless they are issued a permit to sail under the CSO, and even thereafter if they fail to comply with that permit going forward. 

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14 hours ago, kiwimum said:

I would be really happy if AstraZeneca files in the US as DH have been fully vaccinated with AstraZeneca since early February.  We took part in a trial run by the US Navy in San Diego.   I had no side effects, DH had a small headache.   We were unblinded early April at our request so that we could receive another vaccine if needed.

 

Thank you and DH for participating in the trial.  It was such an important and unselfish thing to do.  Much appreciated.  The AZ/Oxford vaccine is an excellent choice for many parts of the world.  It has controlled COVID in the UK remarkably well and now there is just-released real world data from South Korea (see link below) with high effectiveness even after just one shot.  It really is too bad that the company has fumbled the ball on this vaccine.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/skorea-says-astrazeneca-pfizer-covid-19-vaccines-87-effective-after-first-shot-2021-05-05/

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A little more COVID vaccine news from the Pfizer earnings call.  Other than the fact that Pfizer is making a boatload of money.  There are some comments from their Chief Scientific Officer on the booster shot.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/04/covid-booster-shot-pfizer-expects-older-adults-those-with-underlying-conditions-to-be-first-in-line.html

 

 

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10 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

 

I know what he's referring to and it's idiotic.  There is absolutely nothing out there from legitimate sites or news sources.  Period. 

 

But to hammer it home, here's what WebMD says about it:  Why COVID Vaccines are Falsely Linked to Infertility

I was not referring to the vaccine.

 

I was referring to the effects of the virus itself and the long term damage /changes that an infection may cause.

 

In particular, I was referring to articles that have shown up in peer reviewed medical journals that seem to indicate that the Covid 19 virus may have the same detrimental effects on male fertility as the mumps virus does.

 

And, unless one has been living under a rock, there have also been reports on the "long haulers" and there long term problems.

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On 5/3/2021 at 5:04 PM, Homosassa said:

 

As I repeatedly have posted, you must read and understand every word.

 

Read the last sentence.

 

The CDC is issuing guidance to the cruise industry.  The CDC is federal and supersedes state law. The CDC guidance recommends vaccination of the crew and passengers.  If a cruise line has an agreement with the CDC to follow and implement the guidance, then vaccinations are required and the cruise line will implement screening protocols to make sure crew and passengers are in compliance (proof of vaccination).

 

The CDC can not make laws and can only make suggestions/recommendations.

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12 hours ago, CI66774 said:

Wrong. CDC merely issues guidance. It does NOT make law not does it supersede state law.

Yeah, it does.

 

Let's discuss the role of "guidance" as opposed to law and regulation.

 

First, there is a law that is the document that gives the authority to the applicable entity to do it job.

 

Regulations are the mandatory rules that explains how the entity will carry out the duties and responsibilities outlines in the law and is binding on any person or other entity that falls under the regulatory purview of the regulatory body.

 

Guidance is what is issued when there is a problem that needs oversight and there is not enough information or need to write a regulation setting out mandatory procedures or requirements.

 

However, while guidance is not a "law," failure to follow the guidance  can and will often result in regulatory action linked back to the applicable regulation (and law if a "federal" case is being made of the problem). Of course, guidelines will often come out with a request for comment before becoming effective and can be changed to reflex new information or change in a situation.

 

Attached is a good starting point for those of you that are interested in understanding why the CDC has the authority to issue "guidance" that will supersede state law. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/specificlawsregulations.html

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1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

I was not referring to the vaccine.

 

I was referring to the effects of the virus itself and the long term damage /changes that an infection may cause.

 

My next door neighbor is a pediatric health care worker at a local Children's hospital and she got COVID in April 2020. She is in her late 40's and it was a very severe case of Covid that has left her with permanent lung and heart damage. She also got it again last December and it was not a very bad case, fortunately. She also was one of the first heath care workers to get vaccinated in January. She also was  in Africa last month as she is a volunteer with Doctors without Borders.  She has told me that she knows a lot of heath care workers, who like her, have some  long term health issues from having contracted the Covid Virus. This is why I ask people who refuse to be vaccinated, why risk the potential long term damage COVID can do to your body, when they say 99% of COVID cases recover. I have permanent scar tissue in my lungs from having chronic bronchitis when I was younger, so no way am I willing to risk not being vaccinated. 

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30 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

why risk the potential long term damage COVID can do to your body

 

Agreed!  But researchers have done probably thousands of studies showing that people are horrible at evaluating comparative risks. This seems to be especially true when a specific harm can be visualized as occurring to them (like, say, 93 people having severe side effects, or a few dying apparently from a single shot) as opposed to thousands dying from a virus where the transmission cannot be traced. The specific cause, a shot, is perceived to be avoidable, but the vague one, viral transmission, feels unavoidable, so the mind opts for the one it thinks it can control.

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We have been trying to figure out the CDC guidelines for what is the threshold level of Covid+ cases on board to make a cruise end early and return to port.  

 

In the advisory on on test cruises today, that level was defined as 1% of the crew or 1.5% of the passengers.  So 10-15 people out of a thousand.  Will this be the number going forward on the first real cruises?   

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6094/

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

We have been trying to figure out the CDC guidelines for what is the threshold level of Covid+ cases on board to make a cruise end early and return to port.  

 

In the advisory on on test cruises today, that level was defined as 1% of the crew or 1.5% of the passengers.  So 10-15 people out of a thousand.  Will this be the number going forward on the first real cruises?   

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6094/

How would they know until or if they did testing after the cruise?

 

With 95% vaccinated most would have mild to no symptoms.  For the kiddos most would also have mild symptoms.

 

 

Edited by NMTraveller
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1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

We have been trying to figure out the CDC guidelines for what is the threshold level of Covid+ cases on board to make a cruise end early and return to port.  

 

In the advisory on on test cruises today, that level was defined as 1% of the crew or 1.5% of the passengers.  So 10-15 people out of a thousand.  Will this be the number going forward on the first real cruises?   

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6094/

After reading that article I would imagine if at all possible a cruise line will opt for the 95%/98% vaccination option to avoid the test cruise option for fear of hitting the 1.5% infection rate and having to stop the cruise and possibly have to do it all over again. 

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I had my big concern answered today with regard to Vaccination requirements. As long as the vaccine is approved by the WHO for Emergency Use the CDC will accept the proof.   We received the AstraZeneca in a drug trial in the US and have the card to prove it.  Relief at last.

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9 minutes ago, kiwimum said:

I had my big concern answered today with regard to Vaccination requirements. As long as the vaccine is approved by the WHO for Emergency Use the CDC will accept the proof.   We received the AstraZeneca in a drug trial in the US and have the card to prove it.  Relief at last.

That's good news, but I had no idea that was something the WHO actually did.  Are they approved by the WHO automatically if certain countries approve? 

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1 minute ago, D C said:

That's good news, but I had no idea that was something the WHO actually did.  Are they approved by the WHO automatically if certain countries approve? 

From what I understand the WHO has a panel of experts from around the world who examine the data submitted from trials etc.  it is not automatic.

 

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Just now, kiwimum said:

From what I understand the WHO has a panel of experts from around the world who examine the data submitted from trials etc.  it is not automatic.

 

and we have the CC social media experts, they will weigh in

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1 hour ago, D C said:

That's good news, but I had no idea that was something the WHO actually did.  Are they approved by the WHO automatically if certain countries approve? 

 

50 minutes ago, kiwimum said:

From what I understand the WHO has a panel of experts from around the world who examine the data submitted from trials etc.  it is not automatic.

 

 

Everything you never wanted to know...

 

https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/emergency-use-listing-procedure

 

You can download the procedures from that page. 62 pages. Apparently this grows out of the West Africa Ebola outbreak in 2014-2016. Reminds me of NATO documents; quite technical, and a lot of procedure. But, yes, looks like various international panels of experts with various names and acronyms involved in adding a product to the WHO Emergency Use List.

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10 hours ago, markeb said:

 

 

Everything you never wanted to know...

 

https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/emergency-use-listing-procedure

 

You can download the procedures from that page. 62 pages. Apparently this grows out of the West Africa Ebola outbreak in 2014-2016. Reminds me of NATO documents; quite technical, and a lot of procedure. But, yes, looks like various international panels of experts with various names and acronyms involved in adding a product to the WHO Emergency Use List.

OK so what will the WHO do with listing the Sinovac vaccine from China?  The inactivated whole virus vaccine.  These is a lot of information that this is inferior to the mRNA vaccines and the adenovector vaccines.  But countries like the Philippines that supply crew members to major cruise lines are using it. 

 https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-effective-some-data-lacking-who-experts-2021-05-05/

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11 hours ago, LGW59 said:

and we have the CC social media experts, they will weigh in

LGW59.  Serious and honest question for you  If you enjoy continuously mocking the "experts" here on this thread which you do quite often, why do you continue to come here and post?  

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14 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

How would they know until or if they did testing after the cruise?

 

With 95% vaccinated most would have mild to no symptoms.  For the kiddos most would also have mild symptoms.

 

 

Yes that is a key question.  Maybe on longer cruises for passengers?  But 7 day cruises?  I think it will be more relevant to test the crew who stay on the ship continuously from cruise to cruise.  How frequently will they be tested?  Will they all be tested once a week?  Or random testing?  Or only when feeling ill?  Will they have the freedom to requests tests?  Or feel pressure to ignore their symptoms?  If a crew member tests positive, will there be follow up contact tracing (at least amongst the other crew members)?

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Some pretty good news from Moderna on booster vaccines, variant vaccines, and multi-valent vaccines.

https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-positive-initial-booster-data-against-sars-cov

 

And a NEJM real world study with good data against variants for the Pfizer vaccine.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2104974?query=featured_coronavirus

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I for one appreciate our CC social media experts.  I have found this thread one of the places I find information on vaccine topics.  Of course I take this information and do some independent research but the few regular posters I have been found to be quite knowledgeable and to my mind fairly unbiased.   Thank you.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

How would they know until or if they did testing after the cruise?

 

With 95% vaccinated most would have mild to no symptoms.  For the kiddos most would also have mild symptoms.

 

 

 

Test (simulated) cruises do not have the 95% vaccination threshold guideline. You can be vaccinated or state you are not at high risk. As part of the simulated cruise requirements, there is testing at debarkation and again 3-5 days after that. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/ti-simulated-voyages-cso.html

 

Requirements Relating to Laboratory Testing

 

Edited by Jeremiah1212
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