Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Ken the cruiser]

21 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

AZ/Oxford vaccine - the lower 1/2 dose was due to manufacturing error.  Not such good news for an EUA in the US in my opinion.  

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/26/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-dose-error-raises-questions/6431858002/

Ooops! Hopefully they'll be able to get it all figured out and the 1/2 dose error will become a big positive for them.

[TeeRick]

Serendipity definition.  "the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way."

 

A good thought on Thanksgiving.

[puppycanducruise]

Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Homosassa said:

In the long run, that error may prove to be a good thing for response to the vaccine.  However, until there is enough data from a larger number of test subjects, a request for a EUA based upon the lower dose first shot will be delayed.

 

there are also issues with the demographic mix in the half dose group, no older participants, as well as small group size.

[OceanCruise]

I am concerned about the vaccine being rushed through and vaccine companies being exempt from liablity per laws passed in decades ago. Symptoms in trial participants sound worse than the mostly mild or no symptoms most people get when testing positive plus a 99.95% survival rate.  Article from CNBC:

"Public health officials and drugmakers need to warn people that coronavirus vaccine shots may have some rough side effects so they know what to expect and aren’t scared away from getting the second dose......Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots..... at times intense....."

https://archive.vn/VOygb

[Ken the cruiser]

3 minutes ago, OceanCruise said:

I am concerned about the vaccine being rushed through and vaccine companies being exempt from liablity per laws passed in decades ago. Symptoms in trial participants sound worse than the mostly mild or no symptoms most people get when testing positive plus a 99.95% survival rate.  Article from CNBC:

"Public health officials and drugmakers need to warn people that coronavirus vaccine shots may have some rough side effects so they know what to expect and aren’t scared away from getting the second dose......Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots..... at times intense....."

https://archive.vn/VOygb

Just curious, but why doesn't the link you provided have CNBC in it? Personally, I would never click on such an nondescriptive link as the one you provided.

[Covepointcruiser]

Were the participants speaking to CNBC certain they received the real vaccine and not a placebo.    I read in the vaccine studies that the participants receiving the placebo had the worse side effects.   Maybe they actually caught the real COVID.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Were the participants speaking to CNBC certain they received the real vaccine and not a placebo.    I read in the vaccine studies that the participants receiving the placebo had the worse side effects.   Maybe they actually caught the real COVID.

When the placebo was saline, not likely.

[nocl]

the more I read about the AZ vaccine, the less I like about their reported results. They appear to be using a meta analysis from a number of different trials with different protocols. An approach that can be prone to cherry picking the data. I doubt the FDA would approve an EUA if that is what they are doing.

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

the more I read about the AZ vaccine, the less I like about their reported results. They appear to be using a meta analysis from a number of different trials with different protocols. An approach that can be prone to cherry picking the data. I doubt the FDA would approve an EUA if that is what they are doing.

Fortunately there are a number of late stage adenovector approaches including J&J running huge trials that will really help determine if this technology will work.  I was always a bit concerned that AZ/Oxford is using a chimpanzee version and all the others are human adeno vectors.  It is more likely to get immune modulation of the chimp version when put into people.

[OceanCruise]

21 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Just curious, but why doesn't the link you provided have CNBC in it? Personally, I would never click on such an nondescriptive link as the one you provided.

It was archived. Here is another link to the article:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covid-vaccine-cdc-should-warn-people-the-side-effects-from-shots-wont-be-walk-in-the-park-.html

[Covepointcruiser]

Actually if you read the studies more people receiving the placebo had severe reactions.   It may be that they actually caught COVID since they didn’t receive the actual vaccine.

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Actually if you read the studies more people receiving the placebo had severe reactions.   It may be that they actually caught COVID since they didn’t receive the actual vaccine.

Please provide a link to that data.  I have read the information that is currently publicly available and cannot find anything that supports your statement.

[Homosassa]

Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them.

 

Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations.  Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it.  The Shingrix  vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site?

 

People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. 

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them.

 

Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations.  Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it.  The Shingrix  vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site?

 

People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. 

If getting vaccinated means returning to a more normal life and being able to board a cruise ship and visit ports on that cruise, I am 100% in.  Even if it means a couple  days of arm pain and or a few hours of a fever.

Edited November 28, 2020 by terrydtx

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them.

 

Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations.  Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it.  The Shingrix  vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site?

 

People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. 

I do wish the media would help communicate a balanced story and an overall positive story.  Yes some but not all vaccinated people should be prepared for some side effects that could last 1-2 days by accounts from the clinical trials.  Nothing serious but possibly more uncomfortable for some vs others.  It is all about effective communications.  Why do some media outlets start from now even before an EUA for a single COVID vaccine is approved by sensationalizing the side effects (no walk in the park and other negative statements).  These vaccines will save hospitalizations and countless lives.  That is the message.  Why try to make them an even tougher sell from the very beginning by negative stories just to get page hits?

[OceanCruise]

 

Up until this time there has never been a vaccine developed for any coronavirus such as SARs and the common cold. All vaccines have some risk but we really do not know what the long-term effects of the Covid vaccine will be, particularly a new type of vaccine that affects RNA. 

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund has paid out over 4 billion dollars since the 80's. 

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/about/index.html

[phoenix_dream]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I do wish the media would help communicate a balanced story and an overall positive story.  Yes some but not all vaccinated people should be prepared for some side effects that could last 1-2 days by accounts from the clinical trials.  Nothing serious but possibly more uncomfortable for some vs others.  It is all about effective communications.  Why do some media outlets start from now even before an EUA for a single COVID vaccine is approved by sensationalizing the side effects (no walk in the park and other negative statements).  These vaccines will save hospitalizations and countless lives.  That is the message.  Why try to make them an even tougher sell from the very beginning by negative stories just to get page hits?

Agree with you 100%.  Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are.  But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this.  They will do anything for headlines.  Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease?  The answer is a resounding yes.  But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media.  The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns.  

 

My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears.  I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same.  There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one.  Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not.

[LGW59]

7 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Agree with you 100%.  Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are.  But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this.  They will do anything for headlines.  Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease?  The answer is a resounding yes.  But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media.  The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns.  

 

My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears.  I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same.  There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one.  Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not.

Yes, yes and yes!  Spot on post phoenix_dream!!!!

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, OceanCruise said:

 

Up until this time there has never been a vaccine developed for any coronavirus such as SARs and the common cold. All vaccines have some risk but we really do not know what the long-term effects of the Covid vaccine will be, particularly a new type of vaccine that affects RNA. 

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund has paid out over 4 billion dollars since the 80's. 

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/about/index.html

With all of your concerns you are free of course to not get vaccinated and take your chances with COVID.  It is completely your decision.  The COVID vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are new technologies that are made of a piece of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA making the SPIKE protein.  They do not affect RNA as you state. They are made of RNA.

[TeeRick]

14 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

Agree with you 100%.  Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are.  But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this.  They will do anything for headlines.  Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease?  The answer is a resounding yes.  But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media.  The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns.  

 

My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears.  I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same.  There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one.  Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not.

Agree!  Great thought about elected leaders and other leaders (corporate, medical, religious, etc.) getting the vaccine and supporting vaccine efforts.  Unfortunately some of these same folks have cast vaccine safety doubts over the last few months with some of their uninformed statements and partisanship.  It would be terrific to see them line up and get vaccinated and set some positive examples!

[Ken the cruiser]

Moderna will be applying for an FDA EUA today. Go Moderna!!!

 

Covid-19 vaccine: Moderna to apply today for FDA authorization - CNN

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Moderna will be applying for an FDA EUA today. Go Moderna!!!

 

Covid-19 vaccine: Moderna to apply today for FDA authorization - CNN

Yes!  The Moderna EUA meeting (Dec 17) will be a week after Pfizer's meeting (Dec 10).  

 

Can we sing?  All I want for Christmas is a COVID vaccine.

[terrydtx]

15 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears.  I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same.  There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one.  Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not.

I agree and considering that many of our elected officials on both sides of the political spectrum are well over 65 and in the high risk categories already. I wonder how many of them will become part of the anti-vaxxers?

[nomad098]

37 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

With all of your concerns you are free of course to not get vaccinated and take your chances with COVID.  It is completely your decision.  The COVID vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are new technologies that are made of a piece of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA making the SPIKE protein.  They do not affect RNA as you state. They are made of RNA.

 

In 2018 it was shown that mRNA could be transgenerational in studies with Zebrafish, these fish are used because they have a 80% match to humans, have a similar disease profile and easier to study over multiple generations. This could mean in the future that mRNA vaccines and drugs could treat not just yourself but also your future offspring preventing hereditary diseases.

 

Studies have showed that mRNA can be used to alter DNA through a R-Loop in the treatment of cancer. This would mean that a mRNA drug could one day prevent cancer cells from duplicating halting the progression of cancer.

 

mRNA has been studied as both a treatment for infertility and as a contraception.

 

In theory the mRNA vaccine should have no effect either on DNA or be transgenerational as your bodies immune system should neutralise any vaccine infected cells.

 

Short term effects do not look serious at the moment. Long term effects are unknown in humans.

 

mRNA vaccines and drugs will be a huge leap forward in the treatment of people, however as with any technology it could be open to abuse.