Homosassa Posted November 26, 2020 #1451 Share Posted November 26, 2020 17 minutes ago, TeeRick said: AZ/Oxford vaccine - the lower 1/2 dose was due to manufacturing error. Not such good news for an EUA in the US in my opinion. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/26/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-dose-error-raises-questions/6431858002/ In the long run, that error may prove to be a good thing for response to the vaccine. However, until there is enough data from a larger number of test subjects, a request for a EUA based upon the lower dose first shot will be delayed. Link to post Share on other sites
Ken the cruiser Posted November 26, 2020 Author #1452 Share Posted November 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, TeeRick said: AZ/Oxford vaccine - the lower 1/2 dose was due to manufacturing error. Not such good news for an EUA in the US in my opinion. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/26/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-dose-error-raises-questions/6431858002/ Ooops! Hopefully they'll be able to get it all figured out and the 1/2 dose error will become a big positive for them. Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 26, 2020 #1453 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Serendipity definition. "the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way." A good thought on Thanksgiving. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
puppycanducruise Posted November 26, 2020 #1454 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Happy Thanksgiving to those celebrating. Link to post Share on other sites
nocl Posted November 26, 2020 #1455 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Homosassa said: In the long run, that error may prove to be a good thing for response to the vaccine. However, until there is enough data from a larger number of test subjects, a request for a EUA based upon the lower dose first shot will be delayed. there are also issues with the demographic mix in the half dose group, no older participants, as well as small group size. Link to post Share on other sites
OceanCruise Posted November 26, 2020 #1456 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I am concerned about the vaccine being rushed through and vaccine companies being exempt from liablity per laws passed in decades ago. Symptoms in trial participants sound worse than the mostly mild or no symptoms most people get when testing positive plus a 99.95% survival rate. Article from CNBC: "Public health officials and drugmakers need to warn people that coronavirus vaccine shots may have some rough side effects so they know what to expect and aren’t scared away from getting the second dose......Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots..... at times intense....." https://archive.vn/VOygb Link to post Share on other sites
Ken the cruiser Posted November 26, 2020 Author #1457 Share Posted November 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, OceanCruise said: I am concerned about the vaccine being rushed through and vaccine companies being exempt from liablity per laws passed in decades ago. Symptoms in trial participants sound worse than the mostly mild or no symptoms most people get when testing positive plus a 99.95% survival rate. Article from CNBC: "Public health officials and drugmakers need to warn people that coronavirus vaccine shots may have some rough side effects so they know what to expect and aren’t scared away from getting the second dose......Participants in Moderna and Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine trials told CNBC in September that they were experiencing high fever, body aches, bad headaches, daylong exhaustion and other symptoms after receiving the shots..... at times intense....." https://archive.vn/VOygb Just curious, but why doesn't the link you provided have CNBC in it? Personally, I would never click on such an nondescriptive link as the one you provided. Link to post Share on other sites
Covepointcruiser Posted November 26, 2020 #1458 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Were the participants speaking to CNBC certain they received the real vaccine and not a placebo. I read in the vaccine studies that the participants receiving the placebo had the worse side effects. Maybe they actually caught the real COVID. Link to post Share on other sites
nocl Posted November 27, 2020 #1459 Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said: Were the participants speaking to CNBC certain they received the real vaccine and not a placebo. I read in the vaccine studies that the participants receiving the placebo had the worse side effects. Maybe they actually caught the real COVID. When the placebo was saline, not likely. Link to post Share on other sites
nocl Posted November 27, 2020 #1460 Share Posted November 27, 2020 the more I read about the AZ vaccine, the less I like about their reported results. They appear to be using a meta analysis from a number of different trials with different protocols. An approach that can be prone to cherry picking the data. I doubt the FDA would approve an EUA if that is what they are doing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 27, 2020 #1461 Share Posted November 27, 2020 9 hours ago, nocl said: the more I read about the AZ vaccine, the less I like about their reported results. They appear to be using a meta analysis from a number of different trials with different protocols. An approach that can be prone to cherry picking the data. I doubt the FDA would approve an EUA if that is what they are doing. Fortunately there are a number of late stage adenovector approaches including J&J running huge trials that will really help determine if this technology will work. I was always a bit concerned that AZ/Oxford is using a chimpanzee version and all the others are human adeno vectors. It is more likely to get immune modulation of the chimp version when put into people. Link to post Share on other sites
OceanCruise Posted November 27, 2020 #1462 Share Posted November 27, 2020 21 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said: Just curious, but why doesn't the link you provided have CNBC in it? Personally, I would never click on such an nondescriptive link as the one you provided. It was archived. Here is another link to the article: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/23/covid-vaccine-cdc-should-warn-people-the-side-effects-from-shots-wont-be-walk-in-the-park-.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Covepointcruiser Posted November 27, 2020 #1463 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Actually if you read the studies more people receiving the placebo had severe reactions. It may be that they actually caught COVID since they didn’t receive the actual vaccine. Link to post Share on other sites
nocl Posted November 28, 2020 #1464 Share Posted November 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said: Actually if you read the studies more people receiving the placebo had severe reactions. It may be that they actually caught COVID since they didn’t receive the actual vaccine. Please provide a link to that data. I have read the information that is currently publicly available and cannot find anything that supports your statement. Link to post Share on other sites
Homosassa Posted November 28, 2020 #1465 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them. Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations. Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it. The Shingrix vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site? People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
terrydtx Posted November 28, 2020 #1466 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Homosassa said: Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them. Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations. Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it. The Shingrix vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site? People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. If getting vaccinated means returning to a more normal life and being able to board a cruise ship and visit ports on that cruise, I am 100% in. Even if it means a couple days of arm pain and or a few hours of a fever. Edited November 28, 2020 by terrydtx 5 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 29, 2020 #1467 Share Posted November 29, 2020 22 hours ago, Homosassa said: Unfortunately, there are vaccines that aren't "a walk in the park" and do cause reactions in all that have received them. Many of us have just forgotten the way we felt after some of the immunizations. Unless one has been around a child that has just received their first tetanus immunization, we have forgotten the sore arm and fever that accompanies it. The Shingrix vaccine gave me a few off days after the first shot. For those of us that are old, remember the painful reaction and permanent scar left at the smallpox inoculation site? People will need to put on their big people panties and suck it up for the Covid 19 vaccine. I do wish the media would help communicate a balanced story and an overall positive story. Yes some but not all vaccinated people should be prepared for some side effects that could last 1-2 days by accounts from the clinical trials. Nothing serious but possibly more uncomfortable for some vs others. It is all about effective communications. Why do some media outlets start from now even before an EUA for a single COVID vaccine is approved by sensationalizing the side effects (no walk in the park and other negative statements). These vaccines will save hospitalizations and countless lives. That is the message. Why try to make them an even tougher sell from the very beginning by negative stories just to get page hits? 7 Link to post Share on other sites
OceanCruise Posted November 29, 2020 #1468 Share Posted November 29, 2020 Up until this time there has never been a vaccine developed for any coronavirus such as SARs and the common cold. All vaccines have some risk but we really do not know what the long-term effects of the Covid vaccine will be, particularly a new type of vaccine that affects RNA. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund has paid out over 4 billion dollars since the 80's. https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/about/index.html Link to post Share on other sites
phoenix_dream Posted November 29, 2020 #1469 Share Posted November 29, 2020 7 hours ago, TeeRick said: I do wish the media would help communicate a balanced story and an overall positive story. Yes some but not all vaccinated people should be prepared for some side effects that could last 1-2 days by accounts from the clinical trials. Nothing serious but possibly more uncomfortable for some vs others. It is all about effective communications. Why do some media outlets start from now even before an EUA for a single COVID vaccine is approved by sensationalizing the side effects (no walk in the park and other negative statements). These vaccines will save hospitalizations and countless lives. That is the message. Why try to make them an even tougher sell from the very beginning by negative stories just to get page hits? Agree with you 100%. Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are. But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this. They will do anything for headlines. Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease? The answer is a resounding yes. But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media. The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns. My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears. I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same. There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one. Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
LGW59 Posted November 29, 2020 #1470 Share Posted November 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said: Agree with you 100%. Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are. But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this. They will do anything for headlines. Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease? The answer is a resounding yes. But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media. The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns. My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears. I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same. There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one. Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not. Yes, yes and yes! Spot on post phoenix_dream!!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 30, 2020 #1471 Share Posted November 30, 2020 17 hours ago, OceanCruise said: Up until this time there has never been a vaccine developed for any coronavirus such as SARs and the common cold. All vaccines have some risk but we really do not know what the long-term effects of the Covid vaccine will be, particularly a new type of vaccine that affects RNA. The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Trust Fund has paid out over 4 billion dollars since the 80's. https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/about/index.html With all of your concerns you are free of course to not get vaccinated and take your chances with COVID. It is completely your decision. The COVID vaccines by Pfizer and Moderna are new technologies that are made of a piece of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA making the SPIKE protein. They do not affect RNA as you state. They are made of RNA. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 30, 2020 #1472 Share Posted November 30, 2020 14 hours ago, phoenix_dream said: Agree with you 100%. Yes, when people get the vaccine they should be told ahead of time that there might be side effects and what they are. But I am very concerned about all the sensationalist media coverage of this. They will do anything for headlines. Would anyone with intelligence be willing to potentially suffer some short lived but uncomfortable side effects for a day or two rather than catching a deadly disease? The answer is a resounding yes. But unfortunately intelligence seems to be in short supply these days, replaced by chaos and fear, largely (but admittedly not solely) driven by the media. The media disgusts me on a daily basis and this is one of their most egregious campaigns. My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears. I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same. There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one. Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not. Agree! Great thought about elected leaders and other leaders (corporate, medical, religious, etc.) getting the vaccine and supporting vaccine efforts. Unfortunately some of these same folks have cast vaccine safety doubts over the last few months with some of their uninformed statements and partisanship. It would be terrific to see them line up and get vaccinated and set some positive examples! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ken the cruiser Posted November 30, 2020 Author #1473 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Moderna will be applying for an FDA EUA today. Go Moderna!!! Covid-19 vaccine: Moderna to apply today for FDA authorization - CNN 2 Link to post Share on other sites
TeeRick Posted November 30, 2020 #1474 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said: Moderna will be applying for an FDA EUA today. Go Moderna!!! Covid-19 vaccine: Moderna to apply today for FDA authorization - CNN Yes! The Moderna EUA meeting (Dec 17) will be a week after Pfizer's meeting (Dec 10). Can we sing? All I want for Christmas is a COVID vaccine. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
terrydtx Posted November 30, 2020 #1475 Share Posted November 30, 2020 15 hours ago, phoenix_dream said: My hope is that when the vaccines are first available, some of the first recipients will be those in positions of important leadership and soon-to-be-leadership who can set a positive example for the public and try to ease some of the fears. I don't care what anyone's political leanings are, but if the country and state leaders and elected leaders get the vaccines early on it will go a long way to move the population to do the same. There are dozens of other reasons they should be in the first group, but IMHO this is a primary one. Perhaps not those who have already had the virus, but definitely ones who have not. I agree and considering that many of our elected officials on both sides of the political spectrum are well over 65 and in the high risk categories already. I wonder how many of them will become part of the anti-vaxxers? Link to post Share on other sites
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