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Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?


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4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Happy New Year everyone!!! I'm noticing an interesting development starting to happen down here in the South where we live. The Florida governor and now the Georgia governor have added folks 65 and older to the top priority list for getting the vaccine. It will be interesting to see if and when other governors start to move in this direction. 

 

Florida: https://www.wflx.com/2020/12/23/floridians-older-can-receive-covid-vaccine-next-governor-says-6/

 

Georgia: https://www.wtxl.com/news/coronavirus/gov-kemp-expands-eligible-priority-covid-19-vaccine-recipients

 

I totally agree!!!!  People who are 65 years should be in the priority list and NOT in the same category as a incarcerated prisoner or homeless person.  

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34 minutes ago, whirlybird3 said:

I totally agree!!!!  People who are 65 years should be in the priority list and NOT in the same category as a incarcerated prisoner or homeless person.  

I agree with you partially.

Putting all those over 65 into the same category makes no sense.  As has been done with several states those of all ages with comorbidities are after first responders and those in care facilities.  My wife takes anticancer drugs and battles other comorbidities.  She would like have a far worse outcome if infected than myself (73).

Those incarcerated are not in a priority group, but those who work in penal institutions need to be vaccinated early so as to not spread the virus.

Next, those that are homeless.  Truly difficult and both likely to not seek care until very ill and spread to others in their community.  Tough situation in a group both difficult to vaccinate and likely to spread COVID to others.

Last, since the first dose of Pfizer and Moderna provides at least significant coverage; why are we storing their second doses instead of being able to get vaccination numbers DOUBLED in the next few weeks.  The vaccine supply will catch up.

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A lot of discussion on priority.  Unfortunately, does it really matter?  Nope.  The powers that be will decide and I will fall in line (literally). All I can do is hope and pray that J&J, AstraZeneca and Novaxx have good success quickly and we are flooded with vaccines and workers to give them!

M

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7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Yes this maskless partying happens a lot for sure.  The media loves to show it.   I am not disagreeing with you at all.   But it is also a stereotype.  There is another side to every issue. Not all young people do this partying and many are very responsible and careful.  And they understand the risks to their parents and grandparents.  I have nieces and nephews in this age group and in colleges.  Some are working outside their homes in jobs with risk of exposure.  To earn money and qualify for health insurance.  Same for my son and daughter in their early 30's.  They need to work and their jobs require travel too.  In the US there is very little job protection, minimal unemployment benefits and no universal health insurance.  What are most of these kids to do really?  So I have not seen my nieces and nephews for about a year.  And now rarely get visits from my kids.  They get virus-tested after they travel.  And will not put us at risk until they get a negative test.  All we do as retired people with health insurance and retirement income is stay home.  T wehey do not have this easy choice.  Hoping 2021 turns the corner!

Yes, I have a freshmen son in college.  He went away this Fall and was careful.  However, his 5 suitemates had to leave the school because they broke the covid rules.

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7 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

While I posted this in the other thread, I don't think everyone who follows this thread follows the other one, so I'm cross posting:

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/anthony-fauci-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-quite-possible_n_5fef5542c5b6ec8ae0b2aa1f

Thank you.  I generally do not count the Huffpost as a reliable source and I avoid it entirely.  But Fauci's comments are always widely reported in multiple media outlets.  He has become grandpa Fauci to many Americans and a folk hero.  He deserves it IMO.

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15 hours ago, Crazy planning mom said:

Yes, I have a freshmen son in college.  He went away this Fall and was careful.  However, his 5 suitemates had to leave the school because they broke the covid rules.

Did his suitemates test positive?  My 20 year old niece at school had a housemate test positive just before Thanksgiving but no symptoms.  Her university tested every student weekly and that is how it was discovered.  My niece had already returned home when she found out.  She kind of freaked out thinking she had possibly exposed her parents and brother.  She next went for two Covid tests several days apart and both were negative. She also had no symptoms.  But this is a common event at every college and university,  A lot of anguish from a lot of these kids who do follow the rules.  Exacerbated by their college friends who do not and create risk for all.  I feel so bad for these kids- college was a lot of fun for most of us without these type of worries. 

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29 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

Well this is a bit unfortunate but I guess there is only so much money to go around.  At least they tried.

 

Covid-19 Vaccine Study on Preventing Transmission Is Stalled - WSJ

The story claims this study would cost several hundred million dollars.  Must be a better way to get this type of information well below that cost.

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1 hour ago, zitsky said:

Will the current vaccines protect against the mutated version of the virus?  No news recently.

That is the question and there is no direct and definitive information one way or another as this was not known or studied in any of the clinical trials.  But from what I have read many of the vaccine scientists think that the current approved vaccines will still be effective.  The vaccines make multiple antibodies to different regions of SPIKE and also T-Cell responses.  So it would be pretty hard for a virus variant to get around all of this.  But who knows with this virus!  In particular the mRNA vaccines should be adaptable in their creation and manufacturing.  So one could be made in the lab pretty quickly to match any viral variants that can escape the original vaccine.  And maybe a mixed mRNA vaccine might be possible covering multiple variants in the future.  This would all take many months at minimum to put in place similar to the 2020 time frame.  But none of this answers the question now of course.

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8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

The story claims this study would cost several hundred million dollars.  Must be a better way to get this type of information well below that cost.

With the vaccines being 95% effective and with the antibody treatments you are approaching an area where one might consider an challenge trial.  Take 100 young healthy volunteers.  Vaccinate them.  Then once it is effective expose them to the virus.  Test everyone daily over the next 15 days.  If any start showing symptoms treat immediately with antibody treatments (shown to be most effective in early stage).  Test and see if any develop asymptomatic illness and shed virus.  If any do show asymptomatic illness then treat them with antibodies as well.

 

This should give one a good idea if the vaccine also prevents asymptomatic illness and would be fairly low risk.

 

The participants would need to stay isolated for the length of the trial and be closely monitored.

Edited by nocl
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14 hours ago, nocl said:

With the vaccines being 95% effective and with the antibody treatments you are approaching an area where one might consider an challenge trial.  Take 100 young healthy volunteers.  Vaccinate them.  Then once it is effective expose them to the virus.  Test everyone daily over the next 15 days.  If any start showing symptoms treat immediately with antibody treatments (shown to be most effective in early stage).  Test and see if any develop asymptomatic illness and shed virus.  If any do show asymptomatic illness then treat them with antibodies as well.

 

This should give one a good idea if the vaccine also prevents asymptomatic illness and would be fairly low risk.

 

The participants would need to stay isolated for the length of the trial and be closely monitored.

Yes I agree that would be a good approach.  But getting a challenge study approved at least in the US right now is a long shot.

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22 hours ago, Manchester is blue said:

According to Jonathon Van-tam MBE the British expert,  and chief medical officer,

yes they will.

 

I think the answer is more like "Yes they should". 

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On 1/2/2021 at 7:01 AM, TeeRick said:

Thank you.  I generally do not count the Huffpost as a reliable source and I avoid it entirely.  But Fauci's comments are always widely reported in multiple media outlets.  He has become grandpa Fauci to many Americans and a folk hero.  He deserves it IMO.

TeeRick - A question that has huge implications for vaccination.

About 13M doses of vaccine as of last Friday have been distributed to the state's as of last Friday according to CNN this morning with 4.2M injected into arms.

The US has a policy of reserving the second dose so the maximum number that could be vaccinated is about 6.5M.  IMO given the holidays and issues coordinating between CVS/Walgreens for care homes for almost 100k patients in Arizona not bad.

My question is why are we reserving the vaccine for the second dose today?  The UK is not doing this and deliveries of vaccine will continue.  Understand when we get to 50% of our total allocation we do need to reserve, but we are weeks away from that happening and delaying at least partial immunity from those at highest risk from COVID.

Can we ignore the confusion in some states please?  In Arizona the groups are pretty well defined and delivery well coordinated.  First responders - mostly medical - and care facilities.

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30 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

TeeRick - A question that has huge implications for vaccination.

About 13M doses of vaccine as of last Friday have been distributed to the state's as of last Friday according to CNN this morning with 4.2M injected into arms.

The US has a policy of reserving the second dose so the maximum number that could be vaccinated is about 6.5M.  IMO given the holidays and issues coordinating between CVS/Walgreens for care homes for almost 100k patients in Arizona not bad.

My question is why are we reserving the vaccine for the second dose today?  The UK is not doing this and deliveries of vaccine will continue.  Understand when we get to 50% of our total allocation we do need to reserve, but we are weeks away from that happening and delaying at least partial immunity from those at highest risk from COVID.

Can we ignore the confusion in some states please?  In Arizona the groups are pretty well defined and delivery well coordinated.  First responders - mostly medical - and care facilities.

I was under the impression from the beginning that the shipment of first doses from Pfizer and Moderna would be followed about 3-4 weeks later with shipment of the exact same number of the second doses that were being held by the companies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/explainer-covid-19-vaccine-shipped-us-74701400

 

OK I will vent here- Sorry everybody.  I do not understand at all what is going on in my state (PA) or anywhere else.  It is frustrating and almost criminal to see a lot of delivered doses not being used with over 3000 deaths per day in the US.  Unbelievable really.  The CDC gave guidelines to the states months ago.  But each state seems to be unprepared or worse.  This should be a national plan that is well coordinated.  States are showing they are not capable of treating this as their highest priority emergency situation as they should.  Above all else.  No days off.  But the governors were quick to declare emergencies earlier this year and shut us all down.  Now with vaccine in hand they are slow to respond.  Oh yes most of them did get themselves vaccinated.  OK venting over.  I feel a little better.  Happy New Year!

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On 1/1/2021 at 9:43 AM, D C said:

Vaccinating the 20 year olds won't help that situation, and may make it far worse if the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission.     Nothing like giving a 20 year old an invincibility shot to boost their confidence that they won't get sick, while cloaking the presence of the virus if they do come into contact with it. 

That is a very, very valid point I had not considered.  I know all 20 somethings are not inconsiderate, wild partiers who don't give a hoot about their older relatives.  At the same time, I remember being 20 years old and while I am generally a very careful, rule following, conservative (general adjective, not a political statement) person, I look back at some of the decisions I made at 20 and some of the things I did and I get goose bumps!  Since it is not yet known for sure if you can still transmit the virus even if vaccinated (and from what I have read it seems that the consensus seems to be leaning that you can) I think this is a big issue.  The overall intelligence and common sense of adults these days has proven to be very questionable - you can only imagine the decisions made by people whose rational brains have not fully developed yet (not a criticism, just a scientific fact)!  If they don't get the message that they still may be contagious I think we are in for a huge transmission risk.

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1 minute ago, phoenix_dream said:

That is a very, very valid point I had not considered.  I know all 20 somethings are not inconsiderate, wild partiers who don't give a hoot about their older relatives.  At the same time, I remember being 20 years old and while I am generally a very careful, rule following, conservative (general adjective, not a political statement) person, I look back at some of the decisions I made at 20 and some of the things I did and I get goose bumps!  Since it is not yet known for sure if you can still transmit the virus even if vaccinated (and from what I have read it seems that the consensus seems to be leaning that you can) I think this is a big issue.  The overall intelligence and common sense of adults these days has proven to be very questionable - you can only imagine the decisions made by people whose rational brains have not fully developed yet (not a criticism, just a scientific fact)!  If they don't get the message that they still may be contagious I think we are in for a huge transmission risk.

My kids are 24 and 32 yo.  One is a school teacher (yes in class everyday) and one a facilities manager.  Other than a one month period in the spring when my daughters school closed for 4 weeks, both have been working throughout the pandemic.  I am fortunate (?) in that I have been able to work 100% from home since late March 2020.  I am in relatively good health but I am over 60, thus have chosen to follow the recommended guidelines (in Dr. Fauci I trust).  I do not eat inside a restaurant/bar, have my groceries and wine/beer delivered etc.  While my kids are both working, they are smart about it, masks when needed etc. they are both kind of homebodies anyway, not partiers even in normal times.  Most importantly they totally accept why I am handling this situation the way that I am.  Quick drive by my place with a cup of coffee for me and a 5-10 minute chat here and there.  Until we have several months of the vaccine being effective, we all must do our part.

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21 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I was under the impression from the beginning that the shipment of first doses from Pfizer and Moderna would be followed about 3-4 weeks later with shipment of the exact same number of the second doses that were being held by the companies.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/explainer-covid-19-vaccine-shipped-us-74701400

 

OK I will vent here- Sorry everybody.  I do not understand at all what is going on in my state (PA) or anywhere else.  It is frustrating and almost criminal to see a lot of delivered doses not being used with over 3000 deaths per day in the US.  Unbelievable really.  The CDC gave guidelines to the states months ago.  But each state seems to be unprepared or worse.  This should be a national plan that is well coordinated.  States are showing they are not capable of treating this as their highest priority emergency situation as they should.  Above all else.  No days off.  But the governors were quick to declare emergencies earlier this year and shut us all down.  Now with vaccine in hand they are slow to respond.  Oh yes most of them did get themselves vaccinated.  OK venting over.  I feel a little better.  Happy New Year!

Very poor distribution so far in Fla for those over 65.. health Depts still busy with testing..not enough staff.  Should have done it through fire depts..who have emts,  parking lots etc.

 

In NY.. we hear many cops dont have it yet..but those in drug rehab do..go figure

 

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5 minutes ago, hcat said:

Very poor distribution so far in Fla for those over 65.. health Depts still busy with testing..not enough staff.  Should have done it through fire depts..who have emts,  parking lots etc.

 

In NY.. we hear many cops dont have it yet..but those in drug rehab do..go figure

 

5 minutes ago, hcat said:

Here is how they are doing it in MA.

Visual of vaccine timeline Phases 1-3, outlined in the text below.

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6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

My kids are 24 and 32 yo.  One is a school teacher (yes in class everyday) and one a facilities manager.  Other than a one month period in the spring when my daughters school closed for 4 weeks, both have been working throughout the pandemic.  I am fortunate (?) in that I have been able to work 100% from home since late March 2020.  I am in relatively good health but I am over 60, thus have chosen to follow the recommended guidelines (in Dr. Fauci I trust).  I do not eat inside a restaurant/bar, have my groceries and wine/beer delivered etc.  While my kids are both working, they are smart about it, masks when needed etc. they are both kind of homebodies anyway, not partiers even in normal times.  Most importantly they totally accept why I am handling this situation the way that I am.  Quick drive by my place with a cup of coffee for me and a 5-10 minute chat here and there.  Until we have several months of the vaccine being effective, we all must do our part.

I agree 100%.  Unfortunately, not all young people are as considerate or mature as yours seem to be.  Saw all too many news stories over the holidays of large parties being broken up - based on sight alone (I know this is not scientific), the majority of the partiers were under 30.  I have a 19 year old granddaughter.  She is not a reckless, inconsiderate person by nature; quite the opposite.  An A student going to a top school, never got into a lick of trouble in her life worth speaking of  But when she was down at college (as recent as early December), the kids down there were gathering in bars, frat house parties, and on and on.  Large, super-spreader events you see on tv?  No, but certainly not what they are supposed to be doing.  And these are the "good" kids - the non-trouble makers, high academic , generally rule followers, etc..  I fear to think of what the not-so-well-behaved kids may do if they think they are now free to roam about.  If nothing else we seriously need to educate everyone getting the vaccine that they may in fact still be able to infect others.  This is a crucial point.

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1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

 

Visual of vaccine timeline Phases 1-3, outlined in the text below.

Wish I was in MA!  Here in Illinois, an equally blue state (if that factors in at all), those of us 65-75 are in the third group (1C), along with other high risk individuals.  ugh!!  

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