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Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?


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On 12/28/2020 at 12:14 PM, TeeRick said:

The Novavax phase 3 trial for their purified SPIKE protein subunit vaccine is enrolling now.

 

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/phase-3-trial-novavax-investigational-covid-19-vaccine-opens

Rick, a couple of months ago I filled an online form to participate in any COVID vaccine trial.  I was called today for the Novavax, but I already received Moderna's on the 24th.  Both my children (21 and 23 y/o)  will try to get into this trial.  Keeping my fingers crossed!  I liked that 2/3 will get the actual vaccine on this trial. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine.html

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/clinical-trials-of-new-covid-19-vaccine-begin-in-utah-promises-easier-storage-transit

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15 hours ago, markeb said:

Can I just say for the record that it's fascinating we're having a discussion about distribution priorities for a vaccine against a virus that was really only recognized about a year ago? Take a deep breath and think about that. The average vaccine development timeline has been 15-20 years! The world is discussing (or arguing about) how best to prioritize use of a vaccine in 12 months!

 

When this thread started in July, folks like TeeRick, NOCL, cangelmd, etc., and even me, would never have dreamed we could be discussing distribution and and use priorities six months later!

 

Not saying there aren't real issues here, but I'm putting them on the margins compared to the realization that we have not one, but multiple vaccines available!

 

Everything has been pretty much on schedule since phase 1 moderna started back in Feb.  The surprise has mostly been pfizer squeezing in a week before moderna submitted.  There were hopes the timing could be shortened, but everything has mostly been on schedule since februrary. The projections from back then were late 2020.  The good news that we didn't know back then is that the first 2 vaccines to get developed have high efficacy.

 

The governments had 10 months to figure out distribution, and this is what we end up with. It's pretty pathetic and there is no good excuse.  If this is such a critical thing, why leave it for the last second.  The difference between what could have been done, and what we have now is miles apart.

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55 minutes ago, drarill said:

Rick, a couple of months ago I filled an online form to participate in any COVID vaccine trial.  I was called today for the Novavax, but I already received Moderna's on the 24th.  Both my children (21 and 23 y/o)  will try to get into this trial.  Keeping my fingers crossed!  I liked that 2/3 will get the actual vaccine on this trial. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/novavax-covid-19-vaccine.html

https://kutv.com/news/coronavirus/clinical-trials-of-new-covid-19-vaccine-begin-in-utah-promises-easier-storage-transit

So happy that you got the Moderna vaccine already!  It is great that your young adult children will try to get into the Novavax trial.  I really have high hopes for that vaccine.  And it will be many months for their age group to qualify for a vaccine anyway.

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In our state's Department of Health briefing today they did an update on vaccines.

Talk about confusing... 😬  For them, as well as for the general public.

They stated that they are NOT holding back for the 2nd dose, the federal government is holding it back for them.

They also noted that of their delivered allocation, they have to hold back (from the state's allocation) the portion for the Nursing Homes. The majority of that will be vaccinated by contracts the Federal government set up with CVS/Walgreens/Thrifty Drug assuming the facility opted into that process.  This has started and they will be using the Moderna vaccine.

The Veterans Hospital isn't included in our allocation as that comes from the Federal government (not included in the state's allocation).

The Tribal Nations also were able to either opt into the Federal program (not included in our state's allocation) or be part of our state's allocation.

They are using the Phizer for health care employees due to the storage requirements and the size (900 something) of each batch.

Sooo...even the numbers recorded for each state may not include all populations ... and with the holidays and so many people involved.....I am going to "give them" 😃 another week to see where they are at before I get too upset about how I think it should be faster....

I am still afraid they will catch up and be waiting for the next week's allocation at some point...

The good news is DD who is an NP in a designated Covid Long Term Care facility goes for her 2ND dose next week!!!! 

Just sitting listening to the update today made me feel like I was part of a movie hoping for the cavalry to come. Who would have ever thought a year ago that we would be anxiously awaiting our opportunity to get a vaccine and be listening intently trying to understand the process....?

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5 hours ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

In our state's Department of Health briefing today they did an update on vaccines.

Talk about confusing... 😬  For them, as well as for the general public.

They stated that they are NOT holding back for the 2nd dose, the federal government is holding it back for them.

They also noted that of their delivered allocation, they have to hold back (from the state's allocation) the portion for the Nursing Homes. The majority of that will be vaccinated by contracts the Federal government set up with CVS/Walgreens/Thrifty Drug assuming the facility opted into that process.  This has started and they will be using the Moderna vaccine.

The Veterans Hospital isn't included in our allocation as that comes from the Federal government (not included in the state's allocation).

The Tribal Nations also were able to either opt into the Federal program (not included in our state's allocation) or be part of our state's allocation.

They are using the Phizer for health care employees due to the storage requirements and the size (900 something) of each batch.

Sooo...even the numbers recorded for each state may not include all populations ... and with the holidays and so many people involved.....I am going to "give them" 😃 another week to see where they are at before I get too upset about how I think it should be faster....

I am still afraid they will catch up and be waiting for the next week's allocation at some point...

The good news is DD who is an NP in a designated Covid Long Term Care facility goes for her 2ND dose next week!!!! 

Just sitting listening to the update today made me feel like I was part of a movie hoping for the cavalry to come. Who would have ever thought a year ago that we would be anxiously awaiting our opportunity to get a vaccine and be listening intently trying to understand the process....?

All that s my understanding as well.

VA nursing home allotment is coming directly from feds.

Second doses will be shipped.p from feds,not a holdback by states or individual vaccination teams/sites.

Getting Walgreen/CVS teams out to nursing homes is slow.

Getting the consent forms filled out for elderly demented patients in nursing homes during the holidays with limited visitation is slow.

Moderna is more useful outside the hospital setting and it was shipped a week later.

Sites may be busier arranging vaccinations than reporting the data back up the chain, especially over the holidays.

Sadly, the acceptance rate is running about 50%

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On 1/4/2021 at 10:30 AM, TeeRick said:

Keeping out the virus while the rest of the world gets vaccinated is a good strategy.  

Only if you don’t ever want to travel again - which we do, so bring on the vaccine I say 🧐 (while keeping out the virus)

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15 hours ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

In our state's Department of Health briefing today they did an update on vaccines.

Talk about confusing... 😬  For them, as well as for the general public.

They stated that they are NOT holding back for the 2nd dose, the federal government is holding it back for them.

They also noted that of their delivered allocation, they have to hold back (from the state's allocation) the portion for the Nursing Homes. The majority of that will be vaccinated by contracts the Federal government set up with CVS/Walgreens/Thrifty Drug assuming the facility opted into that process.  This has started and they will be using the Moderna vaccine.

The Veterans Hospital isn't included in our allocation as that comes from the Federal government (not included in the state's allocation).

The Tribal Nations also were able to either opt into the Federal program (not included in our state's allocation) or be part of our state's allocation.

They are using the Pfizer for health care employees due to the storage requirements and the size (900 something) of each batch.

Sooo...even the numbers recorded for each state may not include all populations ... and with the holidays and so many people involved.....I am going to "give them" 😃 another week to see where they are at before I get too upset about how I think it should be faster....

I am still afraid they will catch up and be waiting for the next week's allocation at some point...

The good news is DD who is an NP in a designated Covid Long Term Care facility goes for her 2ND dose next week!!!! 

Just sitting listening to the update today made me feel like I was part of a movie hoping for the cavalry to come. Who would have ever thought a year ago that we would be anxiously awaiting our opportunity to get a vaccine and be listening intently trying to understand the process....?

Which state are you referring to? 

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10 hours ago, cangelmd said:

All that s my understanding as well.

VA nursing home allotment is coming directly from feds.

Second doses will be shipped.p from feds,not a holdback by states or individual vaccination teams/sites.

Getting Walgreen/CVS teams out to nursing homes is slow.

Getting the consent forms filled out for elderly demented patients in nursing homes during the holidays with limited visitation is slow.

Moderna is more useful outside the hospital setting and it was shipped a week later.

Sites may be busier arranging vaccinations than reporting the data back up the chain, especially over the holidays.

Sadly, the acceptance rate is running about 50%

Only about 1/3 of the doses sent to my state (PA) have been administered to date according to the CDC and our state Dept. of Health.   We have recorded 2373 deaths in our state just in the past two weeks through yesterday.  Our total in the state is well over 16,000 now.  Having 2/3 of our vaccine doses in the freezer is criminal.

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On 1/4/2021 at 9:10 AM, TeeRick said:

Here is an interesting tidbit from Operation Warp Speed.  About using two half doses of the Moderna vaccine in people 18-55 to increase coverage of the vaccine.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/03/moderna-vaccine-doses-warp-speed-half-453979

If the cruiselines require a vaccine prior to cruising, what defines a vaccine.   If the FDA accepts a vaccine based on a full dose, and then people start taking a half dose, would that be acceptable.   Another situation such as a vaccine which has been approved in one country but has not been approved in the US, would that be an acceptable vaccine.

 

I am sure there are no answers, but seemingly more questions....

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56 minutes ago, tert333 said:

If the cruiselines require a vaccine prior to cruising, what defines a vaccine.   If the FDA accepts a vaccine based on a full dose, and then people start taking a half dose, would that be acceptable.   Another situation such as a vaccine which has been approved in one country but has not been approved in the US, would that be an acceptable vaccine.

 

I am sure there are no answers, but seemingly more questions....

Yes all valid questions.

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2 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Only about 1/3 of the doses sent to my state (PA) have been administered to date according to the CDC and our state Dept. of Health.   We have recorded 2373 deaths in our state just in the past two weeks through yesterday.  Our total in the state is well over 16,000 now.  Having 2/3 of our vaccine doses in the freezer is criminal.

My question is where in the world are they getting enough staff to dispense all of these vaccines?

As a retired nurse, one of the biggest challenges for nursing is  having enough staff. Our state board of nursing has sent out a call for help to retired nurses, nurses from other states who are not even licensed in our state, nursing students, ect... I know CVS, and other entities are helping, but training uneducated staff takes time as well. Getting it to the states is one obstacle; getting it administered is another. 

Edited by larry_s_taco
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So everyone, amazing analysis.

I am in Ontario, we only have the Pfizer vaccine here. I understand that people with autoimmune condition/disease should not take this specific vaccine.

Does this include Hashimoto thyroid which is a autoimmune condition. I am confirmed with blood work and ultrasound on this.

 

Hashimotos thyroid is the #1 reason for thyroid disease - so this is a Huge potential issue for the vaccine!

 

I need to know as there is a Norway cruise which I may wish to book and now I am hesitant to do so.

 

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.

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17 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

So everyone, amazing analysis.

I am in Ontario, we only have the Pfizer vaccine here. I understand that people with autoimmune condition/disease should not take this specific vaccine.

Does this include Hashimoto thyroid which is a autoimmune condition. I am confirmed with blood work and ultrasound on this.

 

Hashimotos thyroid is the #1 reason for thyroid disease - so this is a Huge potential issue for the vaccine!

 

I need to know as there is a Norway cruise which I may wish to book and now I am hesitant to do so.

 

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.

You're asking this question on CC and going to follow any advice given here?  You might want to check with your Dr. to see what he has to say.  I think that would be sound advice.    🍷

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42 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

So everyone, amazing analysis.

I am in Ontario, we only have the Pfizer vaccine here. I understand that people with autoimmune condition/disease should not take this specific vaccine.

Does this include Hashimoto thyroid which is a autoimmune condition. I am confirmed with blood work and ultrasound on this.

 

Hashimotos thyroid is the #1 reason for thyroid disease - so this is a Huge potential issue for the vaccine!

 

I need to know as there is a Norway cruise which I may wish to book and now I am hesitant to do so.

 

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.

 

Have you spoken to your endocrinologist? Has Health Canada released any recommendations?

 

The US CDC has recommended use of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines for people who are immunocompromised or have autoimmune disorders unless there's a specific contraindication; it's not a blanket don't take it. They don't go into detail on contraindications, and I really think that's the point where you need a conversation with your treating physician.

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46 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

So everyone, amazing analysis.

I am in Ontario, we only have the Pfizer vaccine here. I understand that people with autoimmune condition/disease should not take this specific vaccine.

Does this include Hashimoto thyroid which is a autoimmune condition. I am confirmed with blood work and ultrasound on this.

 

Hashimotos thyroid is the #1 reason for thyroid disease - so this is a Huge potential issue for the vaccine!

 

I need to know as there is a Norway cruise which I may wish to book and now I am hesitant to do so.

 

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.

The Moderna vaccine was approved for use in Canada on December 23 and will be available in Toronto in a matter of days. However, unless you are a health care worker, resident or staff member of a LTC facility, or otherwise fall in one of the high priority categories, you are going to have to wait like the rest of us.

 

As for whether you should be vaccinated, or which vaccine, those are questions far better answered by your physician.

 

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Boris Johnson on again tonight with a few more details:

 

Plan is groups 1-4 vaccinated with one dose Pfizer or Astrazeneca in 6 weeks 

Groups 5-9 with one dose in the following 6 weeks

 

By following this plan they believe they can start slowly opening up society after the first 6 weeks (mid Feb)

By the time the second dose is due the societal risks should be low enough that the country can reopen as normal as the risk to healthy under 50's will be no worse than influenza.

 

There would be a rollout of the vaccine to everyone else starting slowly as people will require their second jab. It will be possible that healthy under 50's will not get their first vaccine dose until 2022 

 

However it is possible there will be further restrictions come next winter as the rollout will not be complete to all age groups

 

What could go wrong?🙄🙄

 

Edited by nomad098
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1 hour ago, nomad098 said:

Boris Johnson on again tonight with a few more details:

 

Plan is groups 1-4 vaccinated with one dose Pfizer or Astrazeneca in 6 weeks 

Groups 5-9 with one dose in the following 6 weeks

 

By following this plan they believe they can start slowly opening up society after the first 6 weeks (mid Feb)

By the time the second dose is due the societal risks should be low enough that the country can reopen as normal as the risk to healthy under 50's will be no worse than influenza.

 

There would be a rollout of the vaccine to everyone else starting slowly as people will require their second jab. It will be possible that healthy under 50's will not get their first vaccine dose until 2022 

 

However it is possible there will be further restrictions come next winter as the rollout will not be complete to all age groups

 

What could go wrong?🙄🙄

 

 

??? but COVID is much more lethal to under 50's than influenza. much much much more.  Also with much worse long term morbidities.

 

I guess this is what happens when all those that make the rules are over 50.  Protect yourself, then protect your money, at the expense of others.

 

Well, Godspeed to the UK on undertaking this massive country wide experiment.  I honestly hope it goes well for them, for the sake of them and the world.

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56 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

??? but COVID is much more lethal to under 50's than influenza. much much much more.  Also with much worse long term morbidities.

 

I guess this is what happens when all those that make the rules are over 50.  Protect yourself, then protect your money, at the expense of others.

 

Well, Godspeed to the UK on undertaking this massive country wide experiment.  I honestly hope it goes well for them, for the sake of them and the world.

 

I think the key here is healthy under 50's, influenza does kill more healthy under 50's, however under 50's with comorbidities are more likely to die of covid-19.

 

Tricky these politicians and government scientists they have been very careful in the phraseology of their statements.

 

If their experiment works they will be seen as heros, if it fails it will be our fault somehow.

 

Edited by nomad098
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As for vaccine distribution, let's give that task to UPS, FedEx, and Amazon.  Between the 3 of them, they cover just about every neighborhood multiple times per week.  You can even track deliveries (as I typed that, I just got a UPS delivery alert on my phone 🤣).   Stand out in the driveway, they pull up and poke you in the arm, and off they go. 🙂

 

I say that only half jokingly, as those companies have a demonstrated competence in timely distribution that we're not seeing with the rollouts anywhere. 

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21 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

My question is where in the world are they getting enough staff to dispense all of these vaccines?

As a retired nurse, one of the biggest challenges for nursing is  having enough staff. Our state board of nursing has sent out a call for help to retired nurses, nurses from other states who are not even licensed in our state, nursing students, ect... I know CVS, and other entities are helping, but training uneducated staff takes time as well. Getting it to the states is one obstacle; getting it administered is another. 

Yes this has really become an underlying issue.  Our health care officials in government (federal, state, local) and private sector healthcare should have anticipated this trained staffing issue months ago.  And anticipated some HC workers refusing the vaccine and others being sick for a few days post-vaccine.  Personally I am retired but would volunteer in a minute to be trained to inject vaccine doses - and I might also qualify to get the vaccine myself then in the process.

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21 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

So everyone, amazing analysis.

I am in Ontario, we only have the Pfizer vaccine here. I understand that people with autoimmune condition/disease should not take this specific vaccine.

Does this include Hashimoto thyroid which is a autoimmune condition. I am confirmed with blood work and ultrasound on this.

 

Hashimotos thyroid is the #1 reason for thyroid disease - so this is a Huge potential issue for the vaccine!

 

I need to know as there is a Norway cruise which I may wish to book and now I am hesitant to do so.

 

Any assistance would be gratefully appreciated.

Hashimoto's thyroid autoimmune condition is not as uncommon as you might believe.  I have it myself and have been treated since I was about 30 years old.  About 2% of the US population has it diagnosed and many more likely have it.  So quite a few people in the clinical trials probably had it.  And many more people now have been vaccinated since.  It has not arisen to date as an issue.  But I do agree with everybody else that you should speak to your physician.  Always the best advice by far.

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21 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

My question is where in the world are they getting enough staff to dispense all of these vaccines?

 

California has now authorized dentists to administer the vaccine.  Could help a little bit.

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