If There's an Effective C19 vaccine, will Cruise Lines Require It

[ReneeFLL]

On 7/16/2020 at 12:58 PM, nelblu said:

2 part question:

 

1.  As per topic, will RCL make the C19 vaccine mandatory, and

 

2.  There are many that do not believe in vaccines.  I for one if it's effective, would welcome it.  What would you do?

My crystal ball says Royal doesn't even know so none of us know either.

Yes we would get the shot.

[time4u2go]

7 hours ago, pspercy said:

 

P.S. Anyone know the number of regular flu cases and deaths so far this year for US?

 

In the US, 39,000,000 to 56,000,000 cases. 24,000 to 62,000 deaths. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by time4u2go

[NJ&Ozzie]

Hi all,

Please do not jump on me!  I have found it very interesting to read all the comments from my fellow CC members on this vaccine topic.  Let me be clear, I am not anti-vaccine but I do luv learning & research.   I submit this here only to share information as we are all serious about this topic.

 

A good friend is a clinical study health researcher - he forwarded the following video.  I found it to be extremely informative & thought-provoking.  This is a well done debate between Robert Kennedy Jr. and Alan Dershowitz  (both lawyers).   It is based on science, research & facts - not simply opinion.

 

I urge people to watch it (about an hour & 15 min.).  Personally, I think it is time well spent as it gives an excellent overview of past & current vaccine research, history and the constitutional law.  

Cheers,

NJ 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfnJi7yLKgE

 

 

 

[BND]

12 hours ago, pspercy said:

If There's an Effective C19 vaccine . . . . . 

 

So who decides what's "effective" ?

Vaccine tests typically take a good while for obvious reasons.

Well known epidemiologist Bill Gates says multiple doses may be needed and schools may need to be out until Fall 2021.

Fauci has been very wrong before and is now inconsistent.

 

There may never be a true vaccine just like there isn't for common flu.

 

At some stage we'll just have to live with it like with so many other threats.

 

P.S. Anyone know the number of regular flu cases and deaths so far this year for US?

 

Bill Gates is an epidemiologist?  LOL  

 

And, no one has published flu deaths that I've seen.  I do know for example there have been no deaths under 40 in my county from COVIC, yet we know for a fact a 17 year old died from the flu in Feb as it was published at the time.  

 

There will be a vaccine.  Testing so far has gone great and for those that are talking about the "two month" effectiveness, that's being misrepresented.  At this point in testing, they only have data for a couple of months and won't know until the testing has gone on longer.  But, people are showing the right responses so far in the testing.  

[BND]

5 hours ago, time4u2go said:

In the US, 39,000,000 to 56,000,000 cases. 24,000 to 62,000 deaths. 

Funny, it's reported in a "range" in flu cases and deaths, but COVID is reported as though the numbers are exact.    Makes comparisons really difficult when they use different methods.

[Baron Barracuda]

Possible Vaccine timeline from USA Today

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/health/2020/07/23/covid-vaccine-race-early-success-fuels-cautious-optimism-panel-finds/5480173002/

[cured]

21 hours ago, pspercy said:

If There's an Effective C19 vaccine . . . . . 

 

So who decides what's "effective" ?

Vaccine tests typically take a good while for obvious reasons.

Well known epidemiologist Bill Gates says multiple doses may be needed and schools may need to be out until Fall 2021.

Fauci has been very wrong before and is now inconsistent.

 

There may never be a true vaccine just like there isn't for common flu.

 

At some stage we'll just have to live with it like with so many other threats.

 

P.S. Anyone know the number of regular flu cases and deaths so far this year for US?

 

When did Bill Gates go to med school?

 

Although Windows and Microsoft is hard to distinguish from epidemiology.

Edited July 25, 2020 by cured

[pspercy]

11 hours ago, BND said:

Bill Gates is an epidemiologist?  LOL  

 

 

 

Should've put a /s for sarcasm 🙂

[nelblu]

19 hours ago, BND said:

Funny, it's reported in a "range" in flu cases and deaths, but COVID is reported as though the numbers are exact.    Makes comparisons really difficult when they use different methods.

I don't know that I trust any numbers being put out.  I'd like to see a comparison (US only)from the beginning of C19 epidemic the average number of deaths associated with any illness and compare to the C19, between specific periods .  I've heard many stories whereas deaths not associated with C19 are being so recorded.

 

Don't know if true but rumor is that reimbursements for c-19 cases on average is much higher.

Edited July 25, 2020 by nelblu

[NJ&Ozzie]

Hi all,

 

I will more than likely get vaccine when available, but did find some interesting facts....

 

Covid-19 Testing:  People who are most vulnerable won't be part of the testing.  They will be using "exclusionary criteria" to test, eg. test subjects can not be pregnant, not overweight, have never smoked or vaped, have no respiratory problems in your family, no asthma, no diabetes, no rheumatoid arthritis, no auto-immune disease, no history of seizure in your family. Looks like no typical Americans included, only super healthy.   

 

Is this true?  Ddoes anyone know of someone involved in one of the clinical trials that does have health issues?

 

Vaccines are only medical product that doesn't have to be tested against placebos (CDC).  Nor will there be any animal testing testing of the Covid-19 vaccine (LiveScience - Nicolletta Lanese March. 13, 2020.

 

Flu vaccine has been around since approx. 1938.  Was originally marketed to take only once in lifetime.  Now you take it once a year because new strain every year.  Will you need to take Covid-19 vaccine every year?

 

$500 million of U.S. taxpayer funds have been put into Moderna vaccine research - NIH/Fauci own half the patent

 

FDA has 50% of their budget from vaccine companies.   CDC has 11.5 billion budget - 4.9 billion of that is buying/selling and distributing vaccines.  CDC owns 57 vaccine patents

 

In 1976, a swine flu outbreak hit New Jersey, which incited fears of a new pandemic, so President Gerald Ford announced that the federal government would vaccinate all Americans. Congress approved $137 million for producing a vaccine for this purpose before flu season started. Unfortunately, hundreds of people developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (which causes nerve damage and paralysis) after receiving this vaccine, making many people fear it. The Ford family tried to alleviate fears by televising getting their flu shots, but ultimately the swine flu vaccination program was cancelled.

 

"Trust but Verify"

Cheers,

NJ 

 

 

[time4u2go]

20 minutes ago, NJ&Ozzie said:

$500 million of U.S. taxpayer funds have been put into Moderna vaccine research - NIH/Fauci own half the patent

 

What makes you think this is true?

Edited July 27, 2020 by time4u2go

[MISTER 67]

On 7/16/2020 at 1:34 PM, lenquixote66 said:

Under normal conditions a cruise line could not make it a requirement.However,we are not living under normal conditions and may never.

Right on the money.

[MacMarauder]

On 7/16/2020 at 3:39 PM, zekekelso said:

The consequences of a Covid outbreak onboard would be devastating. Proof of vaccine of antibodies in your body to cruise. 

 

Exactly, the worst thing that could happen to the cruise industry would be another COVID outbreak. It would kill the industry IMO. The media would have a feeding frenzy.

 

By requiring proof of vaccination the cruise lines could say that cruising is safer than any land vacation in the US and completely change the current narrative. So to answer the OP, yes I think they should require it and I hope they will. 

[mek]

2 hours ago, NJ&Ozzie said:

Hi all,

 

I will more than likely get vaccine when available, but did find some interesting facts....

 

Covid-19 Testing:  People who are most vulnerable won't be part of the testing.  They will be using "exclusionary criteria" to test, eg. test subjects can not be pregnant, not overweight, have never smoked or vaped, have no respiratory problems in your family, no asthma, no diabetes, no rheumatoid arthritis, no auto-immune disease, no history of seizure in your family. Looks like no typical Americans included, only super healthy.   

 

Is this true?  Ddoes anyone know of someone involved in one of the clinical trials that does have health issues?

 

Vaccines are only medical product that doesn't have to be tested against placebos (CDC).  Nor will there be any animal testing testing of the Covid-19 vaccine (LiveScience - Nicolletta Lanese March. 13, 2020.

 

Flu vaccine has been around since approx. 1938.  Was originally marketed to take only once in lifetime.  Now you take it once a year because new strain every year.  Will you need to take Covid-19 vaccine every year?

 

$500 million of U.S. taxpayer funds have been put into Moderna vaccine research - NIH/Fauci own half the patent

 

FDA has 50% of their budget from vaccine companies.   CDC has 11.5 billion budget - 4.9 billion of that is buying/selling and distributing vaccines.  CDC owns 57 vaccine patents

 

In 1976, a swine flu outbreak hit New Jersey, which incited fears of a new pandemic, so President Gerald Ford announced that the federal government would vaccinate all Americans. Congress approved $137 million for producing a vaccine for this purpose before flu season started. Unfortunately, hundreds of people developed Guillain-Barré syndrome (which causes nerve damage and paralysis) after receiving this vaccine, making many people fear it. The Ford family tried to alleviate fears by televising getting their flu shots, but ultimately the swine flu vaccination program was cancelled.

 

"Trust but Verify"

Cheers,

NJ 

 

 

VP Pence was  just on TV concerning the Moderna vaccine.  They most definitely will be using a test group that will receive a placebo along with "broad segment of the population"  who will be part of the group.

I get a flu shot every year - I fail to see why that would be an issue with a C19 vaccine?

Edited July 27, 2020 by mek

[NJ&Ozzie]

1 hour ago, mek said:

VP Pence was  just on TV concerning the Moderna vaccine.  They most definitely will be using a test group that will receive a placebo along with "broad segment of the population"  who will be part of the group.

I get a flu shot every year - I fail to see why that would be an issue with a C19 vaccine?

Great - thanks for this!  Can getting a flu shot put you at increased risk for virus infections?  There is some question about all the seniors who died in nursing/senior homes from covid.  Were they at risk if it was a requirement at the nursing home to have the flu shot????

NJ 

[chipmaster]

Very few companies are in it for the greater good, Moderna is starting phase 3, good for them and hopefully us.

 

Of course this company has in it's history never delivered a product yet, asking for what almost 1/2 billion from the US goverment, just did a stock placement a little while ago at a huge premium.. and then this, LOL

 

"Moderna said in a statement that it would be able to deliver about 500 million doses per year, and possibly up to a billion doses per year, starting in 2021. The company says it will not sell the vaccine at cost, but for profit"

[chipmaster]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:19 PM, cured said:

When did Bill Gates go to med school?

 

Although Windows and Microsoft is hard to distinguish from epidemiology.

 

People need to understand an individual's track record, history and motivation.

 

People view Dr Fauci as some great doctor.  He actually has been very very wrong on things, and for the great good should have said and done things, but didn't.   I like him, he is doing his best given his position and being torn between POTUS and the many other factions.   For that same reason he can't always say what is the right thing.

 

Bill Gates is in a different phase of life.  He has no agenda to make money, or anything, though people who don't like his initiatives like to make him sinister.  In his past life as CEO of MS he was predatory, but that was expected, now he and Melinda have put more money and generosity to help mankind than many.   He is also brilliant, I'd only want to seek to understand him and believe him more than the BS that Dr. Fauci has said at time.

 

Dr Fauci has no right to position the world and the US to be so optimistic that a vaccine is there, he knows better, but can't say what is real thoughts are, Bill Gates is different he tells it like it will likely be.

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, mek said:

VP Pence was  just on TV concerning the Moderna vaccine.  They most definitely will be using a test group that will receive a placebo along with "broad segment of the population"  who will be part of the group.

I get a flu shot every year - I fail to see why that would be an issue with a C19 vaccine?

 

The real issue is that the efficacy on such an accelerated time line will be suspect statistically as to how long, and does it last.  Better be picking the two sample populations very  very very carefully.   

 

I personally also get a flu shot.   Almost every vaccine being WARPed ahead is based on an existing approach and cocktail, so beside the fact it won't work, might actually make you get SARS-CoV-2 and COVID19 is likely no more dangerous than the original basis for the vaccine.

[zekekelso]

5 hours ago, NJ&Ozzie said:

Is this true?  Ddoes anyone know of someone involved in one of the clinical trials that does have health issues?

All I know for certain is that I filled out the form to volunteer, and was told I was unlikely to be picked because I was not in any risk group. The want people who are likely to get sick to see if the vaccine actually works. 

[zekekelso]

46 minutes ago, NJ&Ozzie said:

Great - thanks for this!  Can getting a flu shot put you at increased risk for virus infections?  There is some question about all the seniors who died in nursing/senior homes from covid.  Were they at risk if it was a requirement at the nursing home to have the flu shot????

NJ 

No. That was easy. 

[crzndeb]

On 7/25/2020 at 5:11 AM, nelblu said:

I don't know that I trust any numbers being put out.  I'd like to see a comparison (US only)from the beginning of C19 epidemic the average number of deaths associated with any illness and compare to the C19, between specific periods .  I've heard many stories whereas deaths not associated with C19 are being so recorded.

 

Don't know if true but rumor is that reimbursements for c-19 cases on average is much higher.

I agree. I think numbers are skewed. My daughter, who works in medical field has read articles that people dying of heart attacks, strokes, etc, are being listed as dying from Covid, if they had a positive test after they passed.

A poster on Cruise Critic ( another cruise line) said he had two fellow employees not show up for Covid tests at Walgreens, yet then received calls they were both positive. And yes, I have heard same thing....positive tests makes money for whoever is testing.

But maybe it all evens out with those not getting tested. Not everybody will go get tested if they feel symptoms. 
 

[ONECRUISER]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:28 PM, BND said:

Funny, it's reported in a "range" in flu cases and deaths, but COVID is reported as though the numbers are exact.    Makes comparisons really difficult when they use different methods.

Agree. We'll never know even close to exact numbers. Then with the 2019-2020 Flu Season was starting be a pretty Bad, running long and would been many more if not for lock Down. Had Multiple Family Members in Different States tested Positive for it end of Feb... Then as said before CV higher keeps going this way have 50/50 that it will burn out before have a Vaccine. But then if we didnt have many active cases would take lot longer to get results on new Vaccines 

[crewsweeper]

13 hours ago, crzndeb said:

I agree. I think numbers are skewed. My daughter, who works in medical field has read articles that people dying of heart attacks, strokes, etc, are being listed as dying from Covid, if they had a positive test after they passed.

A poster on Cruise Critic ( another cruise line) said he had two fellow employees not show up for Covid tests at Walgreens, yet then received calls they were both positive. And yes, I have heard same thing....positive tests makes money for whoever is testing.

But maybe it all evens out with those not getting tested. Not everybody will go get tested if they feel symptoms. 
 

There are test centers in Florida that only report positive tests.  so if negative, they don't report.  Also deaths get counted differently.  In addition to those stories of a person being killed in a car accident and reported as a CV19 death, there are delays in death reporting.  So you hear 100 people died yesterday due to CV19.  But in reality all but maybe 3-4 died sometime over the past 3 weeks.

 

As far as vaccines go, there is word out it will take more than a single shot to effectively handle immunity in a manner similar to how the single flu shot handles flu immunity.  And again, not everyone will react to the immunity in the same way, just like flu shots might not keep you from catching the flu.  So vaccines are a good risk management/prevention tool, but aren't a cure for CV19 nor the end all.  Eventually some degree of herd immunity may arise, but given the respiratory transmittal of CV19, that could take a few years.

[SRF]

On 7/23/2020 at 11:54 PM, pspercy said:

If There's an Effective C19 vaccine . . . . . 

 

There may never be a true vaccine just like there isn't for common flu.

 

Flu is a bad example.

 

There are HUNDREDS of flu strains.  And the flu is constantly mutating into different strains.

 

Each year, they use their crystal ball to determine which 3 strains are most likely that year.  And the vaccine is developed for those 3 strains.

 

If those are the ones that show up, the vaccine works well.    If not, it doesn't.

 

And next year, there will be different strains running around.

 

But look at the things that vaccines have been developed that work quite well.  Hepatitis A and B.  Small Pox.  Polio.  Shingles.  Rabies.  Yellow Fever. Typhus. Diptheria.  Pertussis. Measles, Chicken pox.

 

And most of them are not a single dose, lifetime immunity.

 

 

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Flu is a bad example.

 

There are HUNDREDS of flu strains.  And the flu is constantly mutating into different strains.

 

Each year, they use their crystal ball to determine which 3 strains are most likely that year.  And the vaccine is developed for those 3 strains.

 

If those are the ones that show up, the vaccine works well.    If not, it doesn't.

 

And next year, there will be different strains running around.

 

But look at the things that vaccines have been developed that work quite well.  Hepatitis A and B.  Small Pox.  Polio.  Shingles.  Rabies.  Yellow Fever. Typhus. Diptheria.  Pertussis. Measles, Chicken pox.

 

And most of them are not a single dose, lifetime immunity.

 

 

 

Let's see how biology works out, so far so good with mutation,  skeptical that we will have the best vaccine out of the candidates no entering Phase3