CDC No Sail Order July 16 Update

[Sunshine3601]

IMO RCL will start up in Europe in the near future.   They have Anthem, Allure and Jewel (any others) that are in Europe.  As other cruises are starting up with short terms to nowhere or limited stop(s).    Maybe RCL can do the same in Europe.    As long as they revenue is worth the cost.

[bigrednole]

The cruise industry has already run all scenarios, Oct 1, Nov 1, Dec 1, Jan 1, etc. They have a line in the sand where they will declare bankruptcy. That will kill anyone and everyone with a FCC or a cruise booked with FCC. In my opinion, they are all geared for no cruising until March or April 2021. They have been making plans to drive to that. It is sad, but it is reality.

[BirdTravels]

3 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

July 16, 2020 Update

On July 16, 2020, CDC extended the No Sail Order and Suspension of Further Embarkation; Notice of Modification and Extension and Other Measures Related to Operations signed by the CDC Director on April 9, 2020—subject to the modifications and additional stipulated conditions as set forth in this Order. The Order is effective upon signature and will be published in the Federal Register.

This Order is in effect until one of the following occurs:

• The expiration of the Secretary of Health and Human Services’ declaration that COVID-19 constitutes a public health emergency,
• The CDC Director rescinds or modifies the order based on specific public health or other considerations, or
• September 30, 2020.

Certainly want to get mileage on the previously reported extension by posting on every cruise line board. 

[jknc]

Here is one thing I’ve learned since beginning of the pandemic,  nobody knows anything. 
 

God help us all.

[BirdTravels]

17 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The cruise industry has already run all scenarios, Oct 1, Nov 1, Dec 1, Jan 1, etc. They have a line in the sand where they will declare bankruptcy. That will kill anyone and everyone with a FCC or a cruise booked with FCC. In my opinion, they are all geared for no cruising until March or April 2021. They have been making plans to drive to that. It is sad, but it is reality.

First there is absolutely no substantiation to your analysis and any of your conclusions. 

 

Second, "bankruptcy" does not equal "stop cruising". Almost every major airline wet "bankrupt" during the last downturn, but planes continued to fly as reorganization was undertaken. 

[npcl]

25 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The cruise industry has already run all scenarios, Oct 1, Nov 1, Dec 1, Jan 1, etc. They have a line in the sand where they will declare bankruptcy. That will kill anyone and everyone with a FCC or a cruise booked with FCC. In my opinion, they are all geared for no cruising until March or April 2021. They have been making plans to drive to that. It is sad, but it is reality.

If they do restructure you can expect them to follow the airline model.  Wipe out the stock holders, give the bond holders equity, but do not touch the customers.  Leave the FCC's intact, just as the airlines have, in general, left the frequent flyer miles intact when they have restructured.  The value of keeping the customers far outweighs the cost of the FCC's.

[A&L_Ont]

1 hour ago, Ashland said:

Looking even possible for my mid March RCI southern caribbean cruise...yes/no ?

I’m not optimistic about my March cruise and the post below leans to the idea that the cruise lines are holding back for a while. 

 

20 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

The cruise industry has already run all scenarios, Oct 1, Nov 1, Dec 1, Jan 1, etc. They have a line in the sand where they will declare bankruptcy. That will kill anyone and everyone with a FCC or a cruise booked with FCC. In my opinion, they are all geared for no cruising until March or April 2021. They have been making plans to drive to that. It is sad, but it is reality.

Mach/April does seem to be more realistic than October 1st as cases tick upwards for departure states. They have one shot, and since that is the case they need the best shot at it. 

[Ashland]

2 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

I’m not optimistic about my March cruise and the post below leans to the idea that the cruise lines are holding back for a while. 

 

Mach/April does seem to be more realistic than October 1st as cases tick upwards for departure states. They have one shot, and since that is the case they need the best shot at it. 

Well I just did an easy Lift & Shift for the same ship, itinerary and cabin category from March 2021 to March 2022...

 

Just didn't want to take the chance.

 

So much easier than I thought it would be. Only price difference will be port fees & taxes...no big deal as I originally got an amazing rate especially compared to the online rate for this new timeframe....Yikes !!!

[German Mermaid]

Just checked Royal´s website. All september cruises are gone, even all cruises out of Europe. 

[A&L_Ont]

33 minutes ago, Ashland said:

Well I just did an easy Lift & Shift for the same ship, itinerary and cabin category from March 2021 to March 2022...

 

Just didn't want to take the chance.

 

So much easier than I thought it would be. Only price difference will be port fees & taxes...no big deal as I originally got an amazing rate especially compared to the online rate for this new timeframe....Yikes !!!

In our case all of our bookings are suites, so they are non-refundable.  Be great if they changed their policy,😉 but I know that isn’t going to happen.
 

I will be cancelling January 2021 next week for a land based AI, to which I am not sure if we will go either. We already have October 2021, January 2022, and March 2022 booked, so a L&S doesn’t really work either for us.  We plan ahead, but unfortunately in this case it doesn’t seem to work out as easily.

 

[HaveWeMetYet]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

If they do restructure you can expect them to follow the airline model.  Wipe out the stock holders, give the bond holders equity, but do not touch the customers.  Leave the FCC's intact, just as the airlines have, in general, left the frequent flyer miles intact when they have restructured.  The value of keeping the customers far outweighs the cost of the FCC's.

Re organization bankruptcy isn't really an option for cruise lines, there isn't much in it for them. the airlines used bankruptcy to reduce operating costs. They used it to void labor agreements with employee unions, end maintenance contracts, service contracts, and gate leases they were obligated to. The airplane cost weren't much of an issue as they leased most of them and had willing buyers for their large aircraft they owned. The cargo companies were buying up the 747/DC 10's back in the day. Cruise lines have operating cost under control paying for the ships is is the issue and Ch 11 doesn't offer much. They can re negotiate outside bankruptcy which they are doing.

Cruise line bankruptcies of the past are almost always liquidation affairs.

[Pratique]

1 hour ago, A&L_Ont said:

In our case all of our bookings are suites, so they are non-refundable.  Be great if they changed their policy,😉 but I know that isn’t going to happen.
 

I will be cancelling January 2021 next week for a land based AI, to which I am not sure if we will go either. We already have October 2021, January 2022, and March 2022 booked, so a L&S doesn’t really work either for us.  We plan ahead, but unfortunately in this case it doesn’t seem to work out as easily.

 

Couldn't you just rebook a placeholder cruise and pay the $200 fee? Then move it out again if necessary later next year. Maybe less than losing the deposit.

[A&L_Ont]

14 minutes ago, Pratique said:

Couldn't you just rebook a placeholder cruise and pay the $200 fee? Then move it out again if necessary later next year. Maybe less than losing the deposit.

Possibly.  I’m content taking the full FCC over giving another $200 on top of what I already have “invested” with them.  Less work than rotating cruises etc for me. As it stands right now, I’m not losing any deposit. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[Pratique]

7 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

Possibly.  I’m content taking the full FCC over giving another $200 on top of what I already have “invested” with them.  Less work than rotating cruises etc for me. As it stands right now, I’m not losing any deposit. 

We moved our Allure TA to Harmony westbound TA. That is the earliest we are booked for anything, with another in 2022. No more bookings until they are sailing again. But it's still fun to look and watch empty ship tour videos. This is a great time to explore locally and stay close to home base. Only 608 active cases here yesterday out of a population of 1.4 million plus visitors. Knock on wood.

[SherriZ366]

Looking at my cruises for a possible lift and shift

[fandash]

6 hours ago, bigrednole said:

The cruise industry has already run all scenarios, Oct 1, Nov 1, Dec 1, Jan 1, etc. They have a line in the sand where they will declare bankruptcy. That will kill anyone and everyone with a FCC or a cruise booked with FCC. In my opinion, they are all geared for no cruising until March or April 2021. They have been making plans to drive to that. It is sad, but it is reality.

yep i fully agree.

that is why we took refund.

so sad if that happens but no business can continue with no revenue for this period of time

 

[PhoenixCruiser]

So, not until 10/1 @ best.  When does RCL declare bankruptcy? 

You are becoming predictable.

People here are really good at researching users history to see what their motives just might be.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Ashland]

6 hours ago, A&L_Ont said:

In our case all of our bookings are suites, so they are non-refundable.  Be great if they changed their policy,😉 but I know that isn’t going to happen.
 

I will be cancelling January 2021 next week for a land based AI, to which I am not sure if we will go either. We already have October 2021, January 2022, and March 2022 booked, so a L&S doesn’t really work either for us.  We plan ahead, but unfortunately in this case it doesn’t seem to work out as easily.

 

All our bookings are suites also. We're still booked for May 2021, July 2021, October 2021 and now March 2022.

We also plan ahead especially for 2021 as it's our 45th wedding anniversary year.

 

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Missusdubbya said:

I don’t understand your post?

When in US waters/at US ports Royal already does adhere to US regulations. When in Australian, European, etc etc waters and ports they adhere to those countries maritime etc regulations.

 

While the post you quoted (which has disappeared) is not correct, neither is yours.  Foreign flag ships do not adhere to USCG regulations while in US waters.  The USCG can only enforce the international agreements like SOLAS, not the stricter regulations that apply to US flag vessels.  The same applies in Australia.  There is overlap in jurisdiction when a foreign ship enters a country's waters, and international law has held that the laws of the flag state apply to the ship in most instances, unless the "safety or well being" of the port is affected, in which case the port state laws can be applied.  Things external to the ship, like air and water pollution, and taxable commerce, will fall under the port state, but things internal to the ship like crew living conditions, working conditions, and wages fall under the flag state.  There are some exceptions, like Australia requiring local crew for cruises that apply for domestic routes, but that is coastwise shipping, and cabotage laws, and they only apply to specific cases.  For example, the SCOTUS has found, years ago, in Spector v NCL, that the US ADA does not always apply to foreign flag cruise vessels.  Certain portions of the ADA, those pertaining to the "ship's internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA, nor does the ADA override SOLAS regulations (an international convention).

 

 

[jknc]

5 hours ago, PhoenixCruiser said:

You are becoming predictable.

People here are really good at researching users history to see what their motives just might be.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

What’s your point? I’ve asked the question for months. 
 

Open your eyes folks.
 

The situation for cruise lines in the US is becoming dramatically worse, not better.  
 

 

[sandebeach]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

While the post you quoted (which has disappeared) is not correct, neither is yours.  Foreign flag ships do not adhere to USCG regulations while in US waters.  The USCG can only enforce the international agreements like SOLAS, not the stricter regulations that apply to US flag vessels.  The same applies in Australia.  There is overlap in jurisdiction when a foreign ship enters a country's waters, and international law has held that the laws of the flag state apply to the ship in most instances, unless the "safety or well being" of the port is affected, in which case the port state laws can be applied.  Things external to the ship, like air and water pollution, and taxable commerce, will fall under the port state, but things internal to the ship like crew living conditions, working conditions, and wages fall under the flag state.  There are some exceptions, like Australia requiring local crew for cruises that apply for domestic routes, but that is coastwise shipping, and cabotage laws, and they only apply to specific cases.  For example, the SCOTUS has found, years ago, in Spector v NCL, that the US ADA does not always apply to foreign flag cruise vessels.  Certain portions of the ADA, those pertaining to the "ship's internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA, nor does the ADA override SOLAS regulations (an international convention).

 

 

I always appreciate your informative posts. 

[A&L_Ont]

8 hours ago, zekekelso said:

Sounds like somebody needs a hug 🤗 

And a cruise. 😉

[cgolf1]

11 hours ago, joelheather said:

You are all a bunch of knuckleheads if you think any cruise will be departing from a US port for at least another year. Why do you think they have been begging for funding capital of billions?  They know this will last a long time.  The world has to return to normal first.

 

1) airports/airlines must return to normal flight ops.

2) world economies must stabilize 

3) School must return to normal in classroom instruction 

4) Vaccine must work

5) Vaccine must work

6) Vaccine must work

Did i mention a vaccine must work?

 

Sorry, A #1 most think is essential, in most cases it isn't, and it should be highly restricted as well right now, but they won't touch it. We will likely lift and shift our upcoming cruise. I am more worried about getting sick on the flight down and back than on the cruise ship! Not a knucklehead either and have been following the science and also trained as a scientist in school. I use my science degree in my job, just not an on the bench researcher.

Edited July 17, 2020 by cgolf1

[fla gang]

Glad their not holding my money! Thank you for all of the information Chief!

[twins_to_alaska]

Summary:

 

The difficulty to date of cruise ship operators to submit and adhere to appropriate NSO response plans during a time of limited operations, as well as ongoing concerns relating to non-compliance with disease prevention protocols and continued outbreaks of COVID-19 onboard cruise ships, highlight the need for further action prior to resuming passenger operations.

Edited July 17, 2020 by twins_to_alaska