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Black Watch & Boudicca


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4 hours ago, tring said:

 

That is how I see it, but no mention of when and if I understood the Bonheur statement correctly, they pay nothing for the first two years.  Ships cost to keep ticking over though, but bookings could be lost once an announcement to get rid is made.  All a bit of politics I suspect, and final decision on timing may well not have been made.

Yes bookings may well be lost. We have a re-book for July on Budicca and we may well take the opportunity to jump ship if the vessel is changed, that would contstitute a major change in the booking.

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9 hours ago, Pentlands said:

Yes bookings may well be lost. We have a re-book for July on Budicca and we may well take the opportunity to jump ship if the vessel is changed, that would contstitute a major change in the booking.

But would it? Fred would say that they are providing you with a better quality vessel and that it is therefore, in effect, an upgrade, especially if you were given an equivalent cabin or better. Also, in section 7.2 of their booking conditions they reserve the right to change vessel.

I have no problem in being moved from Boudicca or Black Watch per se. My problem is that I am booked on Boudicca next June for an double-transit of the Kiel Canal and I believe neither of the new ships are small enough to do that.

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16 minutes ago, Britboys said:

But would it? Fred would say that they are providing you with a better quality vessel and that it is therefore, in effect, an upgrade, especially if you were given an equivalent cabin or better. Also, in section 7.2 of their booking conditions they reserve the right to change vessel.

 

 

Fred's T&C's say that, but cannot override your legal rights (and I have reliable advice regards that).  I suspect they would offer upgrades as that will help to keep people sweet and not object to the change.  Regards your  Kiel cruise, I explained previously how a major change is also dependent upon the person who booked, so for you it would be a major change, though I am sure Fred would be happy to change you to another cruise going through Kiel.

 

Fred will likely point to his t&C's, but making clear you want to cancel because of your legal rights and quoting the regs should  make him buckle as he will no he will not l

Win a case if pushed.  You will need to make clear why it is a major change to you though.

 

He will not cancel any ship's cruises untill he has alternatives in place, like he delayed cancelling the Black Sea cruise this year until he was ready to release the one in the future, or would have lost more bookings.  I would like my cruise to go ahead on a new ship and suspect a number of other people will as well, but still fancy an outside rather than our inside booked at current prices. He may decide to keep all ships until current cruises published are completed, at this rate there will not be many of them left and others will have to have major itinerary changes anyway.  P&O now cancelled more cruises, so shows UK not likely to entertain the cruise industry anytime soon, sadly.

  

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3 hours ago, tring said:

 

 

 

Fred will likely point to his t&C's, but making clear you want to cancel because of your legal rights and quoting the regs should  make him buckle as he will no he will not l

Win a case if pushed.  You will need to make clear why it is a major change to you though.

 

 

 

Made a mess of previous post as shown due to struggling with a smart phone that is a new thing to me!!!  Meant to say I think Fred will buckle as will not want to push something he will be aware he cannot insist upon.  We have had issues with Fred in the past, but the right wording etc. comes up trumps - it is always obvious who knows what they are talking about and those who do not, so can be pushed around 🙂   Need to get your case together though, before saying anything to Fred.

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31 minutes ago, tring said:

 

Made a mess of previous post as shown due to struggling with a smart phone that is a new thing to me!!!  Meant to say I think Fred will buckle as will not want to push something he will be aware he cannot insist upon.  We have had issues with Fred in the past, but the right wording etc. comes up trumps - it is always obvious who knows what they are talking about and those who do not, so can be pushed around 🙂   Need to get your case together though, before saying anything to Fred.

I am hopeful - and fairly confident - that Fred will treat us well over this. If Boudicca has left the fleet by next June and Kiel can no longer be visited, the changes on that cruise would definitely be deemed significant. The itinerary is Amsterdam, Antwerp, Kiel and Travemunde - in 9 nights. Without Kiel, we would miss a day in Kiel during Keil Week, Travemunde, and the two days of canal cruising. If it goes, I am sure we will be offered a full refund or a move to another itinerary with some compensation - especially as this was a replacement cruise for one cancelled in May.

I think they will do the decent thing - especially as all their publicity around this itinerary centres on the canal and the fact that you will be in Kiel for the "Kieler Woche extravaganza"!

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17 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I am hopeful - and fairly confident - that Fred will treat us well over this. If Boudicca has left the fleet by next June and Kiel can no longer be visited, the changes on that cruise would definitely be deemed significant. The itinerary is Amsterdam, Antwerp, Kiel and Travemunde - in 9 nights. Without Kiel, we would miss a day in Kiel during Keil Week, Travemunde, and the two days of canal cruising. If it goes, I am sure we will be offered a full refund or a move to another itinerary with some compensation - especially as this was a replacement cruise for one cancelled in May.

I think they will do the decent thing - especially as all their publicity around this itinerary centres on the canal and the fact that you will be in Kiel for the "Kieler Woche extravaganza"!

 

Good luck, but not convinced you would be offered compensation if told well in advance.  If the event does not go ahead at late notice or if itinerary is changed due to covid without ship change, you would not get comp either as force major, so no need to compensate.  If sold as special event would be major change for all pax if you do not make that, and timings would be tight if divert around as you say, but may be able to skip Travelmunde and loss of one port  not likely a major change for many passengers.

 

The world will be a very sorry place if we are not back to "normal nomal" by then though.

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1 hour ago, tring said:

 

Good luck, but not convinced you would be offered compensation if told well in advance.  If the event does not go ahead at late notice or if itinerary is changed due to covid without ship change, you would not get comp either as force major, so no need to compensate.  If sold as special event would be major change for all pax if you do not make that, and timings would be tight if divert around as you say, but may be able to skip Travelmunde and loss of one port  not likely a major change for many passengers.

 

The world will be a very sorry place if we are not back to "normal nomal" by then though.

By compensation, I just mean a decent upgrade or on board credit on replacement cruise. If just cancelled and a full refund, I would not expect compensation. I think we will have notification well in advance of what is happening.

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1 hour ago, tring said:

 

Good luck, but not convinced you would be offered compensation if told well in advance.  If the event does not go ahead at late notice or if itinerary is changed due to covid without ship change, you would not get comp either as force major, so no need to compensate.  If sold as special event would be major change for all pax if you do not make that, and timings would be tight if divert around as you say, but may be able to skip Travelmunde and loss of one port  not likely a major change for many passengers.

 

The world will be a very sorry place if we are not back to "normal nomal" by then though.

See post 16, I had my March 2021 cruise cancelled, because it was the last leg of a world cruise which starts early November this year and looking through the cruises on the web site, all legs have been cancelled. Extras added if I book another cruise within 2 years, or a percentage added to the money I have already paid if I cancel. I have found Fred to be a passenger orientated cruise not just looking at the bottom line.

 

Within the email sent, it explains the additional 2 ships joining the fleet and that they will be informing us of new fly cruises soon. You could therefor read they are keeping BW and Boudicca, who knows.

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16 minutes ago, ovccruiser said:

See post 16, I had my March 2021 cruise cancelled, because it was the last leg of a world cruise which starts early November this year and looking through the cruises on the web site, all legs have been cancelled. Extras added if I book another cruise within 2 years, or a percentage added to the money I have already paid if I cancel. I have found Fred to be a passenger orientated cruise not just looking at the bottom line.

 

Within the email sent, it explains the additional 2 ships joining the fleet and that they will be informing us of new fly cruises soon. You could therefor read they are keeping BW and Boudicca, who knows.

 

A cancelled cruise is different to one with relatively minor changes though, but with Fred's lack of offers at present compensation at this stage does not really mean anything anyway.  Just depends how things pan out by then though, I assume he will have to come out with some sort of offers if he seriously wants to sell cruises, as many have all mentioned the current prices are just not realistic.  Perhaps time for the 

book 3 style to come out again - it was a noticeable absence from the new brochure release this year, but they way things were going the future, to some extent, was on the cards.  Hence he could have pulled an intention to bring a book 3 offer out at that time with pretty short notice, with the intention to re use it to stimulate new bookings when they are more likely to be made.

 

Now fly cruises, that is interesting....... 

 

Could mean that they are just substituting the new ships for Black Watch and Boudicca on their longer jaunts winter 21/22 with necessary changes to itineraries.  Would make sense to cancel the more distant cancelled cruises first if getting rid of the ships as could then leave the summer/autumn 2021 itineraries in place for now, with decision pending.  He would then likely give preferential deals to people currently booked on the winter jaunts.  It is a bit of a hint though, which is more than we have had so far - thanks a lot for sharing the info. 🙂

 

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On 8/12/2020 at 12:57 PM, tring said:

 

Made a mess of previous post as shown due to struggling with a smart phone that is a new thing to me!!!  Meant to say I think Fred will buckle as will not want to push something he will be aware he cannot insist upon.  We have had issues with Fred in the past, but the right wording etc. comes up trumps - it is always obvious who knows what they are talking about and those who do not, so can be pushed around 🙂   Need to get your case together though, before saying anything to Fred.

I am willing to have a go if the ship is changed, I think you are right and the T/C's can also be deemed unfair.

 

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  • 1 month later...

Sadly this will be a reprieve for but a couple of years.

Passenger liners used as long term accommodation ships for oil rigs or construction projects take a terrible beating then off to the breakers.

Look up the stories and photos of ships such as Regina Magna, Veronica, Enchanted Capri, etc.

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9 hours ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Sadly this will be a reprieve for but a couple of years.

Passenger liners used as long term accommodation ships for oil rigs or construction projects take a terrible beating then off to the breakers.

Look up the stories and photos of ships such as Regina Magna, Veronica, Enchanted Capri, etc.

 

Makes sense as there will always be more decommissioned cruise ships which are usable as they are, so I would not have expected any refurbishment work on the ships.  They are on quite good condition though considering their age, with a lot of work done in recent years, which explains why there is some life still left in them.  It will be a very different environment, but I hope the occupants find there time there comfortable, as they will all have a difficult working life away from their homes.

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9 hours ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Sadly this will be a reprieve for but a couple of years.

Passenger liners used as long term accommodation ships for oil rigs or construction projects take a terrible beating then off to the breakers.

Look up the stories and photos of ships such as Regina Magna, Veronica, Enchanted Capri, etc.

Personally, I prefer not to know. They are in such good condition for their age that I would rather not think of them being trashed and then broken up... even though I know it is a sad reality.

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7 minutes ago, Britboys said:

Boudicca between the bridges courtesy of the Forth Bridges panoramic webcam.

Screenshot_2020-09-28-12-45-31-971.jpeg

 

Thanks, we did see her and have been able to save a screenshot.  All gone now.  We were hoping to see her in the distance but ten minutes is a long time and she would have picked up speed after the bridges.  Feeling quite sad as we were on her a lot over the last few years and went to some very interesting places.  Very much a personal thing, but Black Watch never had the same feel for us.

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