If Royal Requires A Covid-19 Vaccine Before Cruising Will You Get It???

[Biker19]

29 minutes ago, sept10dsm said:

I kind of meant if the ships are actually selling out a sailing now so they can even judge if the sailing will be profitable or even break even.  

No one other than the bean counters at RCI will have that info - I don't think they post on CC.

[sept10dsm]

I guess.  Sometimes when looking at cruises to book the cruise will show that it's completely sold out.  I can't imagine the ones coming up are but I don't know and was just pondering on how well these sailings are being sold.  Hopefully all goes well with test cruises and future sailings.  Cruising is a fun vacation that seems hardest to resume.

[CruiszBug]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:04 AM, Pizzasteve said:

...

What is your source again that hydroxychloroquin is an effective tool on Covid19 treatment or prevention?  I found it interesting that as I read your post, a person was saying how that was one of the false rumors about the disease being spread....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7534595/

Here is a link to a cited article with 50 listed references published October 2020 from National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 8600 Rockville Pike, Bethesda MD, 20894 USA.

 

Results suggest that Hydroxychloroquine is effective when given early especially when paired with Azithromycin.

Edited June 6, 2021 by CruiszBug
Trim down original quote...

[jcc1025]

5 hours ago, sept10dsm said:

I guess.  Sometimes when looking at cruises to book the cruise will show that it's completely sold out.  I can't imagine the ones coming up are but I don't know and was just pondering on how well these sailings are being sold.  Hopefully all goes well with test cruises and future sailings.  Cruising is a fun vacation that seems hardest to resume.

We booked Liberty for August 15th out of Galveston in January and of course it was open. Had to change one of the cabins last month to a different class (both balcony) and had to go down two decks to find one available.  The cruise line has some pretty good algorithm on days to cruise and how they are booked, it handles their pricing, as you get closer the prices rise and then at some point on the scale they start to drop prices to fill cabins. Of course right now its a whole new ballgame, but RCCL had 250,00 sign up for the test cruises so expect the pent up demand will take care of filling the limited number of ships starting out. On our cruise they have replaced Liberty with Independence and we will be the first paid cruise out of Galveston. Sounds like any unfilled cabins at the point on the old Liberty cruise are going to be offered to late July, early August bookings to try and cut down on the cancellations. The cruise lines have been screwed by government agencies  from all sides, and now the FL governor wants to pump his chest over not requiring proof of shots. Great for getting on but don't think some of the ports of call will be quite as easy on allowing people who have not gotten shots to come on shore. 

[TheMastodon]

On 6/4/2021 at 7:00 PM, Pizzasteve said:

That is the most nonsense reply I ever saw. Cherry pick a random quote from a random person and try to superimpose it on a chart, as if the person was trying to time a market in stock trading.

 

Your dismissal of expertise with a propaganda piece like that says all I need to know about your ability to use logic and data vs forming an opinion and looking desperately for something to prop up your world view.

 

In fact we are still in a tsunami of death.  Do you watch world news?  Are you saying we were not in a humanitarian crisis?  Have you no sympathy for the thousands who lost family members or face possibly permanent damage to their health?  People continue to die.  How do you know long Covid19 isnt still on its way to causing long term health problems?  I personally know several who have been in and out of hospitals for almost a year, with permanent issues.

 

But still, what does the rate of cases superimposed against a single quote, likely taken out of context tell us about your use of logic?  Yes, we got vaccines faster and more effective than any hoped, thank god, and the disease is getting more under control in a few priviledged countries.  That says nothing about what our science is saying about what is effective or not.  Yes scientist update hypotheses as new data emerges and sometimes reverse recommendations.  That does not invalidate the scientific method, but rather reenforces it.

 

Anyway, what a rediculous response to a real problem.  A leader of the Center for the Investigation of Disease Origins who spent their life investigating diseases and teasing out causes, from AIDS to ebola and dedicates their life to protecting YOU deserves respect. What they say about quack theories is credible.  The rumors about AIDS, ebola, all followed patterns like covid and what you are perpetuating.  It is sad to be a mouthpiece for ignorance, but some love the attention of being contrary.  You got it, I responded.  Good for you.  What have you done to help humanity?  I was at a vaccine clinic yesterday as a volunteer.  When was the last time you helped anyone less fortunate than you are?

“Tsunami of death”

 

[keyboardjunkie]

1 hour ago, CruiszBug said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7534595/

Here is a link to a cited article with 50 listed references published October 2020 from National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 8600 Rockville Pike, Bethesda MD, 20894 USA.

 

Results suggest that Hydroxychloroquine is effective when given early especially when paired with Azithromycin.

 

In reading the results I came to a different conclusion.  The results of the numerous studies are very mixed regarding efficacy.

 

Quotes:

"Twenty-five reported positive clinical efficacy from providing HCQ to for COVID-19 patients; 15 showed no improvement with HCQ and three showed worse clinical results in patients who received HCQ."

 

"We found 32 reports of HCQ treatment in hospitalized patients with COVID-19. Of these 32 reports of hospitalized patients, 14 reported good results, 15 reported no improvement and three reported worse results."

 

An additional consideration is that many of the studies were not peer-reviewed, meaning that the validity of the study might be questionable. 

 

So, as you can see, two people reading the same article come away with two different opinions.  Both are valid opinions and may reflect the bias of the reader.

[CruiszBug]

47 minutes ago, keyboardjunkie said:

 

In reading the results I came to a different conclusion.  The results of the numerous studies are very mixed regarding efficacy.

 

Quotes:

"Twenty-five reported positive clinical efficacy from providing HCQ to for COVID-19 patients; 15 showed no improvement with HCQ and three showed worse clinical results in patients who received HCQ."

 

"We found 32 reports of HCQ treatment in hospitalized patients with COVID-19. Of these 32 reports of hospitalized patients, 14 reported good results, 15 reported no improvement and three reported worse results."

 

An additional consideration is that many of the studies were not peer-reviewed, meaning that the validity of the study might be questionable. 

 

So, as you can see, two people reading the same article come away with two different opinions.  Both are valid opinions and may reflect the bias of the reader.

From Discussion Section: Timing of HQC provision:

"The studies were divided into early, late and ICU administration. Early provision—within 48 hours of admission—showed 67% (6/9) of the studies to have positive efficacy. Later provision—after 48 hours' admission or in the ICU—found positive efficacy in 40% (2/5). Thus, from 100% for early outpatient, to 67% for early hospital to 40% for later hospital provision, there appears to be a relationship with time of initiation of treatment, with better results observed the earlier HCQ is provided."

 

What I got from it was that giving it early seemed to be key to good outcomes. Administering it later while not as effective, still produced positive results. Less time in hospital, and caused no harm. This study compares outpatient results and inpatient results with positive conclusions in both. 

 

I thought it was an interesting read... 

[cooncat_mom]

One And Done already. Every vaccine will have people who have reactions. All vaccines are a risk (my DPT tried to kill my when I was 3 months old.  Meds have been iffy all my life). I figured I'd need it for travel so bit the bullet. Flying to see my grandkids soon (been a yeay and a half) and hoping my Sept cruise might be a go. Since I work in a hospital,  masks don't bother me. I'm ready to travel again!

[BecciBoo]

11 hours ago, bucfan2 said:

The cruise lines are faced w/ a choice:  a) start cruising, or b) prepare for liquidation.

As a business, they most likely took mandatory vaccination into consideration.  They also decided what they felt was best for the line to continue to stay in business.  I doubt they read cc threads to help them determine their best chance to survive.

Absolutely, except I think they had absolutely no choice.  Why should this industry be any different from sports or bars or restaurants, none of which can demand only vxd patrons.  It's pathetically stupid and illogical. 

[BecciBoo]

On 6/5/2021 at 4:24 PM, Pizzasteve said:

The godlessness of it stuns me.

And what you just said stuns me too.  You have some nerve heaping judgement upon anyone, if you think you have the right to hurl the first stone...go ahead.  I will pray for you.

[atgood]

5 hours ago, TheMastodon said:

“Tsunami of death”

 

Awesome graph.  Ironic. 

[sept10dsm]

7 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7534595/

Here is a link to a cited article with 50 listed references published October 2020 from National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 8600 Rockville Pike, Bethesda MD, 20894 USA.

 

Results suggest that Hydroxychloroquine is effective when given early especially when paired with Azithromycin.

While doctors either refuse or at times forbidden to prescribe due to the restrictions by their governors.  Ivermectim is in the same boat.  My goodness, even recommending taking a vitamin/nutrient/ mineral that might even help keep the immune system stronger is blocked or removed!  

[sept10dsm]

6 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

From Discussion Section: Timing of HQC provision:

"The studies were divided into early, late and ICU administration. Early provision—within 48 hours of admission—showed 67% (6/9) of the studies to have positive efficacy. Later provision—after 48 hours' admission or in the ICU—found positive efficacy in 40% (2/5). Thus, from 100% for early outpatient, to 67% for early hospital to 40% for later hospital provision, there appears to be a relationship with time of initiation of treatment, with better results observed the earlier HCQ is provided."

 

What I got from it was that giving it early seemed to be key to good outcomes. Administering it later while not as effective, still produced positive results. Less time in hospital, and caused no harm. This study compares outpatient results and inpatient results with positive conclusions in both. 

 

I thought it was an interesting read... 

and then there is ivermectim.  a close friend was refused this medication.  he may have or may not have been helped but wouldn't even give it a try.  It's another drug that has shown promise in helping stop virus replication.  I V vitamin C and other simple nutrients are so often blocked or not given when what's the hurt if family want to try.  Some families have had to go to court to allow.  It's pretty sad.  And as far as the hydroxycloriquine, even dr. Fauci stated it was a useful drug in the 2003 outbreak of sars.  And it's apparently in the released emails that he knew it was a useful drug.  sad day for medicine. 

[Pizzasteve]

15 hours ago, Keksie said:

Just in case you happen to see this I will answer your question.

The link you posted mentioned grants for research.  I was pointing the news which has been on several different news channels relating to the origins of covid.  It would seem not unfounded after all.  

You do not know me so you have no idea of my religious affiliations or beliefs.  Volunteering is a good thing but you also have no idea of the volunteering and/or good deeds large and small done by the posters on CC who are making a difference.  You are not special for volunteering just American because that is what we do.

You also have no idea of my beliefs about vaccines or my vaccine status for covid or any other disease.  

I do love a good buffet so that I can make a salad with all the things I like and maybe a roll on the side.

 

I have a really hard time following the meaning of your posts.  Maybe English is your second language, but there is so much wrong information being posted, I am going to assume foreign trolls are rampant in covid vaccination threads advocating all sorts of nonsense unrelated to medical research, so I will just unfollow replies.

 

PS.  A drug being useful for a purpose does not make it 'something to try.'  The complete lack of logic of the last few posts dumbfounds me.  People are being denied Vitamin C?  It is in every drugstore, everywhere for anyone to buy.  I am beginning to think these threads attract senile ramblings.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[Pizzasteve]

10 hours ago, CruiszBug said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7534595/

Here is a link to a cited article with 50 listed references published October 2020 from National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 8600 Rockville Pike, Bethesda MD, 20894 USA.

 

Results suggest that Hydroxychloroquine is effective when given early especially when paired with Azithromycin.

Did you actually look at this?  Click on the tables amd footnotes.   It lists in the footnotes a study that showed worse results using HQ with a sample of 5000 patients, so that was thrown out because they redefined what should count, and instead weighted equal a bunch of non peer reviewed studies that showed positive results pre-infection over a sample of less than 50 patients. 

 

From the study abstract:

We hypothesized that a systematic review would show HCQ to be effective against COVID-19, more effective when provided earlier, not associated with worsening disease and safe. We searched PubMed, Cochrane, Embase, Google Scholar and Google for all reports on HCQ as a treatment for COVID-19 patients. 

 

Honestly, it was a study that only collected and counted conclusions of other studies and chose to ignore the facts or data of the studies, that some were significant efforts and others impressions based on a few patients.   They literally Googled for reports and counted how many said it was effective.  WOW..  Thats science. 

 

They then cherry picked what they wanted to use and then just counted the conclusions as helpful or not. This is at a time when thousands of politically motivated people were desperate for media that said it was effective and cranking out 'papers.'  The 'star' studies are non reviewed with amazing sample sizes like 40-50 patients.  So they got an MD to publish something like he had 50 patients, only 2 got covid, thats less than average for my area, HQ prevented Covid.  No normalizing. One notes someone already on this drug has a condition whereby they are avoiding covid.

 

So even this study says it is not effective once infected, only maybe as a preventative.  Yet we know it is a dangerous drug with many possible problems that shouldnt be taken unless needed.  And even that is in a sample so small they couldnt ever be significant for medical use.  It is garbage science.  But it must be good if listed on a NIH web site,

 

This paper literally counted how many studies existed and picked some, then counted them in tables.  Non were peer reviewed.  This is the danger of people who read click bait titles and dont bother to actually read or understand what the paper actually says and what its authors actually did.  These guys searched for studies already posted, ignored whether their methodology made sense, and counted them up.

 

It is exactly the method used whereby people were put forward as asserting election fraud, without any evidence, then lawyers counted them up and said hundreds and hundreds of people are asserting fraud, so therefor fraud must exist. The fact that the underlying assertions were on bad foundations was dismissed.  Not one peer reviewed study with an acceptable methodology that I can see.

 

PS. MODS PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD. It is so full of bad, wrong information it is dangerous. It is also far off topic, myself included.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[MrMarc]

Actually I am a bit surprised this isn't even more lopsided than it is.  I wonder ifvthis is event relevant to RCCL.

[Mythbuster]

Today RCCL announced they will sail out of Florida without a mask mandate due to Florida's $5000 fine per passenger for asking for proof of vaccination.  As a fully vaccinated passenger I am not fearful that I will get covid from another passenger but I do have some other concerns:

1) If a covid outbreak occurs among the unvaccinated passenger how will the vaccinated passengers be impacted?  For example will the ports not allow disembarking or will there be lock downs or will masks be required throughout the ship for all passengers?

2) They state that unvaccinated passengers will have to follow special protocols but has not defined what that means other than testing.  If they can't ask for proof of vaccination due to Florida's law, how will they know who to apply the "special protocol" to?  Even if they know, how will they enforce it, they can't enforce rules for chair hogs how will they enforce these rules?

 

As a RCCL stockholder, I am concerned about the financial impact on RCCL if an outbreak occurs, will the state of Florida bear some liability for fare refunds, special cleaning and other expenses associated with a covid breakout?

 

 

 

[kdnurs]

YES

[LEMJMcC]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:43 PM, logan25 said:

Yes, but I am in no rush to receive the vaccine until cruising resumes.

My sentiments as well.  Matter of fact, I'll likely NOT be vaccinated unless RCI requires it for cruising...

[Biker19]

6 hours ago, Mythbuster said:

Today RCCL announced they will sail out of Florida without a mask mandate due to Florida's $5000 fine per passenger for asking for proof of vaccination. 

They did?

[Cruise a holic]

1 minute ago, LEMJMcC said:

My sentiments as well.  Matter of fact, I'll likely NOT be vaccinated unless RCI requires it for cruising...

So sad for you.

[Keksie]

8 hours ago, Pizzasteve said:

I have a really hard time following the meaning of your posts.  Maybe English is your second language, but there is so much wrong information being posted, I am going to assume foreign trolls are rampant in covid vaccination threads advocating all sorts of nonsense unrelated to medical research, so I will just unfollow replies.

 

PS.  A drug being useful for a purpose does not make it 'something to try.'  The complete lack of logic of the last few posts dumbfounds me.  People are being denied Vitamin C?  It is in every drugstore, everywhere for anyone to buy.  I am beginning to think these threads attract senile ramblings.

I don't think reading comprehension is your forte.  What you have posted has nothing to do with my response to you.  I posted no misinformation, vitamin C was not mentioned or any drugs for that matter.  

 

[Mythbuster]

8 hours ago, Biker19 said:

They did?

Yes, RCI asked Florida for an exemption since the CDC was requiring but the governor refused.  Now the state of Florida is suing the CDC claiming the CDC does not have authority to make those requirement.  It sounds like RCI believes the CDC will lose.

[Pizzasteve]

On 6/6/2021 at 10:50 AM, TheMastodon said:

“Tsunami of death”

 

I said I wouldd drop it, but your insensitivity to the fact that millions of people are still dying all over the world and almost 600,000 Americans died last year astonishes me.  Your need to 'be right' exceeds all empathy.  I pity you so much.

 

Appoligies to prior poster (keksie) who I missquoted as I misstook his post for another proponent of the unproven, untested Covid cures or preventatives.  Internet rumors and bad science have buried the good science and thoughtful messaging of organiations like the WHO, and it is so sad.  So the choice of a word proves what?  The expert models have pretty accurately predicted the level of cases and deaths.  Yes, with vaccines the deaths are dropping, no thanks to many on these pages who refuse to do their patriotic duty and get vaccinated and promote vaccines.

 

Did some experts try scare tactics to get idiots to take Covid seriously, sure...lives depended on it.  Meanwhile others dismissed common sense to opportunistically take advantage politically, knowing that dismissing masks and covid would lead hundreds of thousands more to die as a result, and scheduled mass spreader events, knowing they would kill people.  Much better and more honorable to do that then to tell people it was serious (sarcasm).  

Edited June 7, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[Pizzasteve]

On 6/6/2021 at 3:21 PM, BecciBoo said:

And what you just said stuns me too.  You have some nerve heaping judgement upon anyone, if you think you have the right to hurl the first stone...go ahead.  I will pray for you.

So BecciBoo, you dont believe Covid caused deaths that we should regret, but instead should mock the experts who tried to warn us?  Because that is what you are supporting.

 

I fail to see the spiritual center of that thread of advocacy.  Regretting unneccessary deaths and trying to serve others by devoting ones life to medicine to me seems on higher moral ground. 

 

But unfettered floating vacations are more important I guess. Thread now unfollowed.  Going to depart the community as the QAnon believing type crowd and antivaxers 'because it is for freedom and our side' are just to depressing to read.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Pizzasteve