Jump to content

Two Carnival Cruise Ships Have Been Sold and Two Others Going to Long Term Lay-Up Status


shof515
 Share

Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


I wonder how long Carnival planned to keep all of their Fantasy class ships prior to the current coronavirus. No doubt all 8 ships would still be cruising today without this virus. Sad how devastating this virus has been and continues to be to the cruise industry. 

The only thing we can be reasonably sure of was Fantasy was most certainly a goner in January 2022, when the Fascination was set to reposition to Mobile.

 

Unless if Carnival was willing to return to San Juan later in 2022, I would suspect Ecstasy was likely a goner near the end of 2022 as well simply due to being 31 years old and due for drydock, and the Sensation or Elation would have likely taken over in Jacksonville. It's also possible Imagination gets the boot in 2022 instead of Ecstasy as she would have been due for drydock as well.

 

It's also possible Inspiration could have been retired in 2021 instead of being sent to drydock, in which case I think you see the redeployment of Radiance to Long Beach take place. Imagination would likely just sail alongside Sensation in Miami, or replaced Sunrise in Fort Lauderdale before being retired in 2022 (and Ecstasy likely lives another 2.5 years)

 

So even in the most aggressive scenario, you have 3 ships leaving by December 2022: Fantasy, Inspiration, and Imagination (or Ecstasy).

 

Since Carnival doesn't have anything on order after Celebration, we can't really extrapolate too much.  But if you assume a new ship every two years, we are likely saying goodbye to Sensation in late 2024 to avoid a January 2025 drydock. Ecstasy, Inspiration, and Imagination bow out in 2024 if they haven't already.

 

Fascination likely doesn't get retired until 2026. At this point Mobile has to step up to at least Spirit class, if not Conquest class. This could also mean a larger ship in San Diego or Sydney.

 

Elation and Paradise may survive 2028, depending on what the plans are for a 32-year old Carnival Sunshine, and new ports in Tampa, Jacksonville, and/or Baltimore.  It's possible Sunshine bows out here instead of a Fantasy-class ship if Carnival finds themselves the proud new owner of a vessel in excess of 150,000 tons. By sometime in the 2030s, the Elation and Paradise, though, inevitably meet the same fate.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, N7786W Flyer said:

 

Pardon me for asking, but why do you seem to revel in the destruction of the Fantasy class?  I get that you don't enjoy the ships, but others do and, I presume, are sad to see them go.

 

Again, maybe I am missing something, but if you don't like the ships, fine...just don't book them and let others, who do enjoy them continue to cruise on them.  I don't see how their continued existence somehow diminishes your cruise experiences.

 

Forgive me if I am misinterpreting your intentions.

Believe it or not, I have enjoyed every one of my cruises on a Fantasy class ship. It’s just time for Carnival to scrap them and move on in order to remain competitive. At one time, the company was a leader in innovative and revolutionary concepts within the cruise industry and sadly, they no longer are. As Carnival wishes to distance itself from the party reputation and actually provide an immersive experience on par with its competitors, they cannot have these older ships ruining the brand image they are trying to transform. When I first saw the Mardi Gras, it created excitement and I thought it was a ship I would enjoy and considered booking. This new direction is everything Carnival should be pushing for and they cannot move forward without regaining a competitive advantage. On itineraries a Fantasy class ship is running, the brand’s primary competitor is using ships larger than the Dream class with newer concepts to capture more audiences.

 

As to why I constantly post and share my opinion regarding its departure, it’s simply because it’s the unpopular opinion that isn’t typically voiced. It creates engagement and discussion opportunities that provide a bigger scope of vision regarding the internal side of the business. Memories of these ships are great and they’ll always be there. The ships still being part of the fleet though will not help the brand image or reputation.

 

The only sad part would be the loss of jobs but they will be replaced later on by new and more efficient cruise ships.

Edited by xDisconnections
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, tidecat said:

The only thing we can be reasonably sure of was Fantasy was most certainly a goner in January 2022, when the Fascination was set to reposition to Mobile.

 

Unless if Carnival was willing to return to San Juan later in 2022, I would suspect Ecstasy was likely a goner near the end of 2022 as well simply due to being 31 years old and due for drydock, and the Sensation or Elation would have likely taken over in Jacksonville. It's also possible Imagination gets the boot in 2022 instead of Ecstasy as she would have been due for drydock as well.

 

It's also possible Inspiration could have been retired in 2021 instead of being sent to drydock, in which case I think you see the redeployment of Radiance to Long Beach take place. Imagination would likely just sail alongside Sensation in Miami, or replaced Sunrise in Fort Lauderdale before being retired in 2022 (and Ecstasy likely lives another 2.5 years)

 

So even in the most aggressive scenario, you have 3 ships leaving by December 2022: Fantasy, Inspiration, and Imagination (or Ecstasy).

 

Since Carnival doesn't have anything on order after Celebration, we can't really extrapolate too much.  But if you assume a new ship every two years, we are likely saying goodbye to Sensation in late 2024 to avoid a January 2025 drydock. Ecstasy, Inspiration, and Imagination bow out in 2024 if they haven't already.

 

Fascination likely doesn't get retired until 2026. At this point Mobile has to step up to at least Spirit class, if not Conquest class. This could also mean a larger ship in San Diego or Sydney.

 

Elation and Paradise may survive 2028, depending on what the plans are for a 32-year old Carnival Sunshine, and new ports in Tampa, Jacksonville, and/or Baltimore.  It's possible Sunshine bows out here instead of a Fantasy-class ship if Carnival finds themselves the proud new owner of a vessel in excess of 150,000 tons. By sometime in the 2030s, the Elation and Paradise, though, inevitably meet the same fate.

Why does Mobile even need a ship? As @Thorncroft can attest to as an expert of the Mobile Port, it’s the place where cruise ships go to die. Just like ships, restaurants, local stores and other industries, not all cruise ports will be given a ship allocation or survive — and that’s okay.

Edited by xDisconnections
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

Why does Mobile even need a ship? As @Thorncroft can attest to as an expert of the Mobile Port, it’s the place where cruise ships go to die. Just like ships, restaurants, local stores and other industries, not all cruise ports will be given a ship allocation or survive — and that’s okay.

Mobile (where I grew up, by the way) is positioned well as a drive-up port for large portions of Northwest Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and even Indiana and Illinois. There's literally a point in Chicago where Mobile is the closer port than New Orleans.

 

Yes, Mobile gets older ships. But somebody has to have the oldest ship in the fleet, and when service resumes, that distinction will belong to . . . Jacksonville.

 

Carnival could make everyone schlep over to New Orleans, but New Orleans has a finite capacity of the number and size of ships it can accept - Carnival made a business decision that sailing a Fantasy-class ship out of Mobile is more profitable than putting a larger ship in New Orleans to serve the same passenger base from the Southeast and Midwest.

Edited by tidecat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Mobile (where I grew up, by the way) is positioned well as a drive-up port for large portions of Northwest Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, and even Indiana and Illinois. There's literally a point in Chicago where Mobile is the closer port than New Orleans.

 

Yes, Mobile gets older ships. But somebody has to have the oldest ship in the fleet, and when service resumes, that distinction will belong to . . . Jacksonville.

 

Carnival could make everyone schlep over to New Orleans, but New Orleans has a finite capacity of the number and size of ships it can accept - Carnival made a business decision that sailing a Fantasy-class ship out of Mobile is more profitable than putting a larger ship in New Orleans to serve the same passenger base from the Southeast and Midwest.

And yet, Carnival cruises out of Mobile cannot command a higher cruise fare compared to its compset of Jacksonville and New Orleans. Cruises from Mobile are deeply discounted and it’s likely a ship was only placed there due to an overcapacity in other markets.

 

Carnival went for years without Mobile. They’ll be fine without it again in the future. The options it can provide are pretty limited also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

When I first saw the Mardi Gras, it created excitement and I thought it was a ship I would enjoy and considered booking. This new direction is everything Carnival should be pushing for and they cannot move forward without regaining a competitive advantage.


What’s so exciting about Mardi Gras? From what I have seen and read, it seems like they are copying a lot of ideas that RCI implemented in their ships over 10 years ago. I also don’t understand the enthusiasm for Bolt. As a roller coaster enthusiast who has travelled around the country to ride roller coasters from Great Adventure on the East coast to Magic Mountain on the West coast, the thought of riding Bolt does not excite me. However, it is a different concept at sea, so I give credit to Carnival for that. 
 

There are still a lot of people out there (I am not one of them) that prefer smaller ships. That is one of the advantages Carnival has over RCI. RCI Voyager class ships, which are now all in the 20 years old range, or bigger than Carnival’s Vista class ships, which are currently their largest ships. Of course this will change when Mardi Gras begins sailing. 
 

Carnival’s focus over the last several years has been on the new or inexperienced cruiser. It is a strategy that was working very well prior to this current virus. If I was Carnival, my concern would be will this same group of people continue to book cruises in the future. Obviously people who are active on this site are going to keep on cruising sooner or later. However, the media has done a good job of portraying cruise ships as extremely dangerous during this pandemic. I have heard from numerous co-workers and neighbors who have never been on a cruise say they would never go on a cruise now or in the future. If that is a common belief across the country, it would have a significant impact on the target audience Carnival is trying to attract. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

And yet, Carnival cruises out of Mobile cannot command a higher cruise fare compared to its compset of Jacksonville and New Orleans. Cruises from Mobile are deeply discounted and it’s likely a ship was only placed there due to an overcapacity in other markets.

 

Carnival went for years without Mobile. They’ll be fine without it again in the future. The options it can provide are pretty limited also.


Another issue for Mobile is its limited size airport.  In many cases people have to fly into Pensacola Airport or New Orleans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, CruiseHealing said:


Another issue for Mobile is its limited size airport.  In many cases people have to fly into Pensacola Airport or New Orleans.

Agreed, it doesn't help, especially now Southwest has pulled out of Pensacola.

 

Mobile is starting to relocate the airport. It may take a decade or more to fully transition all commercial air traffic to Brookley, but it will work out better in the long run.

 

The question will be is if cruising eventually grows enough in the next 6-10 years to justify putting a ship in Mobile that carries 45% or more passengers (at double occupancy). If Carnival exits Mobile, and parts with all of thr ships that can service Tampa, this could mean that there would be no embarkation ports on the Gulf Coast east of New Orleans. But I still think that point is 10-12 years out.

Edited by tidecat
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


What’s so exciting about Mardi Gras? From what I have seen and read, it seems like they are copying a lot of ideas that RCI implemented in their ships over 10 years ago. I also don’t understand the enthusiasm for Bolt. As a roller coaster enthusiast who has travelled around the country to ride roller coasters from Great Adventure on the East coast to Magic Mountain on the West coast, the thought of riding Bolt does not excite me. However, it is a different concept at sea, so I give credit to Carnival for that. 
 

There are still a lot of people out there (I am not one of them) that prefer smaller ships. That is one of the advantages Carnival has over RCI. RCI Voyager class ships, which are now all in the 20 years old range, or bigger than Carnival’s Vista class ships, which are currently their largest ships. Of course this will change when Mardi Gras begins sailing. 
 

Carnival’s focus over the last several years has been on the new or inexperienced cruiser. It is a strategy that was working very well prior to this current virus. If I was Carnival, my concern would be will this same group of people continue to book cruises in the future. Obviously people who are active on this site are going to keep on cruising sooner or later. However, the media has done a good job of portraying cruise ships as extremely dangerous during this pandemic. I have heard from numerous co-workers and neighbors who have never been on a cruise say they would never go on a cruise now or in the future. If that is a common belief across the country, it would have a significant impact on the target audience Carnival is trying to attract. 

Ehh, what could I say... I like the color of the ship's hull and the fact they are trying something different 🙂 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:


Carnival’s focus over the last several years has been on the new or inexperienced cruiser. It is a strategy that was working very well prior to this current virus. If I was Carnival, my concern would be will this same group of people continue to book cruises in the future. Obviously people who are active on this site are going to keep on cruising sooner or later. However, the media has done a good job of portraying cruise ships as extremely dangerous during this pandemic. I have heard from numerous co-workers and neighbors who have never been on a cruise say they would never go on a cruise now or in the future. If that is a common belief across the country, it would have a significant impact on the target audience Carnival is trying to attract. 

 

Carnival's focus has always been novice cruisers, typically a younger crowd. It has expanded more in recent years to include gamblers. There is no shortage of either and both are risk takers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Carnival's focus has always been novice cruisers, typically a younger crowd. It has expanded more in recent years to include gamblers. There is no shortage of either and both are risk takers.

Not sure I agree with this.  I think that Carnival has focused on providing a product that is more affordable.  A natural byproduct of that would be novice cruisers so it might seem that a large percentage of cruisers are novice.  They definitely target a younger crowd which never bothered me.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SmogMonster said:

Not sure I agree with this.  I think that Carnival has focused on providing a product that is more affordable.  A natural byproduct of that would be novice cruisers so it might seem that a large percentage of cruisers are novice.  They definitely target a younger crowd which never bothered me.  

 

I do not believe novice cruisers to be necessarily young. I would actually argue the opposite. The older folks that I know that take cruises (for the first time) do so because they've grown tired of multiple flights, booking tours, meal reservations\finding dining, tour groups etc when on a traditional land based tour. (granted you do that on a ship to but it's much much easier to navigate)

 

As I've always espoused, cruising is like Costco, one stop shopping. It's all there for you and you just need to show up. This is what is attractive to most first time cruisers. 

 

When my wife and I were in our late 20's and into our 30's, we bounced around Europe on trains, cars, buses etc. It was great. Now, we just prefer to take a cruise and have it all there ready to go. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SmogMonster said:

Not sure I agree with this.  I think that Carnival has focused on providing a product that is more affordable.  A natural byproduct of that would be novice cruisers so it might seem that a large percentage of cruisers are novice.  They definitely target a younger crowd which never bothered me.  

 

Chicken vs. Egg, Egg vs Chicken.

 

Carnival knows the market of people who have never cruised is larger than the market of people who have cruised.

 

Focus on affordable vs Focus on anti-snob

 

It's all relative.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

I do not believe novice cruisers to be necessarily young. I would actually argue the opposite. The older folks that I know that take cruises (for the first time) do so because they've grown tired of multiple flights, booking tours, meal reservations\finding dining, tour groups etc when on a traditional land based tour. (granted you do that on a ship to but it's much much easier to navigate)

 

As I've always espoused, cruising is like Costco, one stop shopping. It's all there for you and you just need to show up. This is what is attractive to most first time cruisers. 

 

When my wife and I were in our late 20's and into our 30's, we bounced around Europe on trains, cars, buses etc. It was great. Now, we just prefer to take a cruise and have it all there ready to go. 

 

No, but you won't find Carnival in the Top 10 cruise lines for seniors. The novice cruise market is enormous and still mostly untapped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

No, but you won't find Carnival in the Top 10 cruise lines for seniors. The novice cruise market is enormous and still mostly untapped.

 

Sure, Carnival is surely no Holland and I'm sure as hell glad they don't go that way.

 

Not sure what you mean by novice cruise market is enormous. That's basically the general population or perhaps anyone over 25. Judging by how full the Carnival Inspirationa and Imagination always were out of Long Beach, I think they're doing a pretty good job of tapping it. Will be interesting to see if Carnival can keep the prices attractive with Imagination\Inspiration gone and Radiance and perhaps Miracle taking their place. Sure, they're bigger and nicer ships but for four days cruises, I hope the prices don't skyrocket

 

I would say the harder venture is getting economy minded cruises to pony up for more expensive cruises. Price is king. Look at the people who still fill Spirit and Frontier flights. They're abysmal airlines but they're still full.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

Sure, Carnival is surely no Holland and I'm sure as hell glad they don't go that way.

 

Not sure what you mean by novice cruise market is enormous. That's basically the general population or perhaps anyone over 25. Judging by how full the Carnival Inspirationa and Imagination always were out of Long Beach, I think they're doing a pretty good job of tapping it. Will be interesting to see if Carnival can keep the prices attractive with Imagination\Inspiration gone and Radiance and perhaps Miracle taking their place. Sure, they're bigger and nicer ships but for four days cruises, I hope the prices don't skyrocket

 

I would say the harder venture is getting economy minded cruises to pony up for more expensive cruises. Price is king. Look at the people who still fill Spirit and Frontier flights. They're abysmal airlines but they're still full.

I am sure you do know that Carnival owns HAL.  Did you also know that the average age of a carnival cruiser is 54.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I am sure you do know that Carnival owns HAL.  Did you also know that the average age of a carnival cruiser is 54.

 

Both are irrelevant to the discussion with BlerkOne.

 

Never the less, this would disprove your point on CCL average age...https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/591476-average-age-of-passengers-by-cruise-line/

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, pc_load_letter said:

 

Both are irrelevant to the discussion with BlerkOne.

 

Never the less, this would disprove your point on CCL average age...https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/591476-average-age-of-passengers-by-cruise-line/

 

 

Whatever you say, the quoted post proves absolutely nothing.  I speak from knowledge, but have a good day.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

All facts....

I agree. I've been on several Journeys cruises where you would be hard pressed to find someone as young as 45. 😀Overall I would say that the average age on a Carnival cruise is about 45 to 55 depending on the length of the cruise. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, THIS IS US! said:

Will there be three ships in Long Beach? Would love it if both the Imagination and Inspiration get a replacement.

You obviously missed the announcement. Imagination and Inspiration were removed from service and both ships' itineraries were consolidated onto the Radiance. Inspiration is sitting on a beach in Aliağa, Turkey being scrapped, and while not officially announced, Imagination appears to be headed to Aliağa for scrapping as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, tidecat said:

You obviously missed the announcement. Imagination and Inspiration were removed from service and both ships' itineraries were consolidated onto the Radiance. Inspiration is sitting on a beach in Aliağa, Turkey being scrapped, and while not officially announced, Imagination appears to be headed to Aliağa for scrapping as well.

Thanks I missed that there would only be the Radiance, bummer. It was fun to take both. 
 I definitely didn’t miss the announcement that they were being scrapped because I was booked on the Imagination twice and got a surprise that my two quick cruises were canceled . I am now on the Radiance and the Panorama for next year so it worked out in my favor. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/26/2020 at 11:55 PM, tidecat said:

The only thing we can be reasonably sure of was Fantasy was most certainly a goner in January 2022, when the Fascination was set to reposition to Mobile.

 

Unless if Carnival was willing to return to San Juan later in 2022, I would suspect Ecstasy was likely a goner near the end of 2022 as well simply due to being 31 years old and due for drydock, and the Sensation or Elation would have likely taken over in Jacksonville. It's also possible Imagination gets the boot in 2022 instead of Ecstasy as she would have been due for drydock as well.

 

It's also possible Inspiration could have been retired in 2021 instead of being sent to drydock, in which case I think you see the redeployment of Radiance to Long Beach take place. Imagination would likely just sail alongside Sensation in Miami, or replaced Sunrise in Fort Lauderdale before being retired in 2022 (and Ecstasy likely lives another 2.5 years)

 

So even in the most aggressive scenario, you have 3 ships leaving by December 2022: Fantasy, Inspiration, and Imagination (or Ecstasy).

 

Since Carnival doesn't have anything on order after Celebration, we can't really extrapolate too much.  But if you assume a new ship every two years, we are likely saying goodbye to Sensation in late 2024 to avoid a January 2025 drydock. Ecstasy, Inspiration, and Imagination bow out in 2024 if they haven't already.

 

Fascination likely doesn't get retired until 2026. At this point Mobile has to step up to at least Spirit class, if not Conquest class. This could also mean a larger ship in San Diego or Sydney.

 

Elation and Paradise may survive 2028, depending on what the plans are for a 32-year old Carnival Sunshine, and new ports in Tampa, Jacksonville, and/or Baltimore.  It's possible Sunshine bows out here instead of a Fantasy-class ship if Carnival finds themselves the proud new owner of a vessel in excess of 150,000 tons. By sometime in the 2030s, the Elation and Paradise, though, inevitably meet the same fate.

Wow, you spent some time going thru your ‘vision’.   Sunshine is not going anywhere, and Mobile is def not getting a Spirit class ship.  Carnival would certainly be doing a happy dance if they got to 2030 with any Fantasy class ships.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • ANNOUNCEMENT: AmaWaterways Announces an Extended Season on the Douro River
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...