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12 hours ago, Denny01 said:

A quick story before this whole thing gets shutdown:

  One pont that was brought up about maskwearing: it makes it hard to ‘lipread’. You’d be surprised how many use this and many who do don’t even realize it. I’d lost most of my hearing in one hear (a bit too much sitting in between two jet engines!) and the other getting weak. The guy testing me asked me to repeat words and he had my wife say them. I did OK. Then he had her cover her mouth and I missed 80%! Never realized what i was doing to ‘supplement’ my hearing. 

 

But is that a reason not to wear a mask?.......Nope. Just like all the other very subjective inconveniences listed before. And that is what they are. And the reason the Oxygen/CO2 ‘issue’ was responded to is because that was the only one that had any level of measurement, all the others were subjective ‘bothersomes’. And the Oxy/CO2  was just another red herring. 

 

Den

 

There are actually masks that have a clear rectangle (obviously covered with the same type of plastic as in the shields) over the mouth made specifically for people who work/live/regularly interact with those who read lips. The school where I teach (all special ed) has a couple of classes for students with hearing impairments and their teachers have gotten those in case we are back in the classroom.

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10 hours ago, markeb said:

 

There are reasons other than BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, and Audi why the Autobahn works. And why it largely only works in Germany. The same logic applies to mask wearing. I really never worried about a German driver passing me on the right at 180 km/hr...

 

Vielen Dank!

All those passing you on the Autobahn weren’t necessarily German... 😁
Oh,  also agree with your observation.

Edited by C-Dragons
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Hospital worker here.   

If anyone is having difficulty with ears being irritated, there are mask protectors that make it more comfortable.

 

The go around the back of your head or neck and connect to the ear straps. Very easy.

 

My nephew made them for us on his 3D printer, and they're awesome.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, eas2225 said:

Hospital worker here.   

If anyone is having difficulty with ears being irritated, there are mask protectors that make it more comfortable.

 

The go around the back of your head or neck and connect to the ear straps. Very easy.

 

My nephew made them for us on his 3D printer, and they're awesome.

 

 

I made some of those for my husband. I don't have a 3D printer, but I do have a Cricut cutting machine (similar to a Silhouette cutting machine, or plotted cutter). I found a pattern online and cut them out of heavy duty hanging file folders. They work great for him. They obviously aren't as durable as the 3D printed ones, but they do the trick inexpensively.

 

Thanks for your work on the front lines. Whatever job you are doing in the hospital is important and helpful.

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18 hours ago, jg51 said:

Agreed, "Lady Arwen."  They are disgusting for several reasons, including (but not limited to) the following ...

 

1.  Hiding a considerable portion of a person's personality, for, while the eyes are sometimes called "the window to the soul," a smile or frown may reveal as much or more.

 

2.  Forcing the wearer repeatedly to feel the unpleasant heat of his/her exhalations (many degrees warmer than "room temperature").

 

3.  Forcing the wearer to inhale a great deal of Carbon Dioxide, instead of clean air (mainly Nitrogen and Oxygen).

 

4.  Causing the wearer to experience discomfort caused by the elastic of the ear loops.

 

5.  Muffling the wearer's voice, making others unable to hear (and thus forcing the speaker to repeat him/herself with excessive exertion).

 

6.  Causing a loss of money for the purchase (not a great deal for a single person, but an enormous amount for society collectively).

 

7.  A considerable number of people (consciously or not) rely on lip-reading.

 

Please add other factors and thoughts, if you wish.

 

If wearing a mask poses so much discomfort for you, I presume that having a ventilator in your throat will be even more of a pain.

 

I don´t really love wearing a mask (who does?), but I got used to it and it has become an automatism. Sometimes I even forget to take it off. But I am freaking sure that I prefer a mask over a ventilator...

Edited by Miaminice
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We have had a mandatory mask rule here since mid April. We always wear our mask when leaving home. Everyone should IMHO. With that said we won’t fly or cruise if a mask is mandated. I seriously doubt cruises here in the U.S start back before a proven vaccine is available and I’m hoping that masks will not be required. We are not one to buck the system so if masks are required we will live by that rule but decline to cruise. 

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Wearing it for work,  dr visits , shopping or other day to day needs is esential, but wearing it during a cruise would be  a big negative.  Maybe for 5 days on APEX but not much longer! 

 

Compliance by others also a concern!

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I don’t understand the need to wear a mask when outside at all...frankly, I’m not doing that...
 

Riding in your car by yourself with one on is baffling too. 

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I don't enjoy wearing a mask either but we do it when in the grocery store etc.  I have new respect for surgeons who have always done this as part of their job.  I would not cruise if I had to wear a mask because it would mean the danger of contracting COVID is still a threat.

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4 hours ago, eas2225 said:

Hospital worker here.   

If anyone is having difficulty with ears being irritated, there are mask protectors that make it more comfortable.

 

The go around the back of your head or neck and connect to the ear straps. Very easy.

 

My nephew made them for us on his 3D printer, and they're awesome.

 

 

Do you know anyone who can Crochet,,these are easy to make.

 

 

73EC6684-05FE-477A-B8C2-AEA5BE1CF4CA.jpeg

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36 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don’t understand the need to wear a mask when outside at all...frankly, I’m not doing that...
 

Riding in your car by yourself with one on is baffling too. 

My experience:

 

We have a nice trail very nearby where I walk the dog daily. When COVID-19 came along, at first I didn't wear a mask, but when summer weather arrived and more and more people started using it to bike, walk and run, I frequently found myself with a group of people coming towards making no effort to maintain social distancing. I found it easier to simply wear a mask and not worry about it. I start off with it in my pocket, and on some walks I never need to don it.

 

When I head out in the car, I don't put on a mask until I'm about to enter the first store or other indoor location. If that's the only one I'm going to, I remove the mask before driving off home. But if I'm going to another store, I'll just leave it on. The mask is comfortable, doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I really don't worry about people wondering why I have a mask on in the car. :classic_biggrin:😷

 

 

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20 hours ago, Lady Arwen said:

 Masks are a deal breaker for us on a cruise, so we’ll wait until things are a bit more relaxed.  If not, then we’re done.

 

Notice, please, that "Lady Arwen" NEVER ADVOCATED BREAKING THE LAW OR RULES -- NOR RECOMMENDED THAT PEOPLE GO ON CRUISES AND AVOID WEARING MASKS!!!  Rather, she was saying that she will not GO on cruises until she is allowed to travel without a mask (all or most of the time, we assume).

 

After reading what "Lady Arwen" had written, we quoted her and began by saying this: "Agreed, 'Lady Arwen.'  [Masks] are disgusting for several reasons, including (but not limited to) the following ..."

We then gave seven reasons why we have found masks to be obnoxious -- so much so that WE, LIKE "LADY ARWEN," WILL AVOID CRUISING RATHER THAN WEAR A MASK (ALWAYS OR MOST OF THE TIME) ABOARD A SHIP. 

 

We later left a second post that included these words: "We have not encountered [anyone] "propagating disinformation" [against masks], and we ourselves do not do so.  Rather, we (1) explain facts regarding why masks are extremely unpleasant to so many, and (2) we offer an opinion that masks are disgusting, regardless of 'style and size.'  Nevertheless, we also wear masks where they are required by law ...!"

 

PLEASE NOTICE THAT, IN NEITHER OF OUR POSTS, DID WE ADVOCATE GOING WITHOUT A MASK (ON BOARD A SHIP, WHILE SHOPPING IN A SUPERMARKET, ETC.)!!!  We are AGAINST breaking the law or rules of a government or cruise line.

 

Now, why in the world -- you may be asking -- are we using upper case letters so much -- "shouting," some people call it?  It's because we were unjustifiably attacked by numerous CrCr members later yesterday or today -- folks who FAILED to read CALMLY and CAREFULLY what we stated.  Some people NEED TO HAVE THINGS SHOUTED AT THEM, so that they can hear the facts and think like adults, the second time around! 

 

Unfortunately, the first time around, several people here, seemingly acting out of sheer emotion (hatred, it almost seems), wrongly assumed that we belong to some kind of sub-human species called "anti-maskers," who advocate anarchy or at least law/rule-breaking!  They did not read our words CAREFULLY ENOUGH!

 

And what's with this "Anti-Masker" crud anyway?  Haven't people known since the 1960s (at least) that over-generalizing, stereotyping, and labeling people are forbidden in polite society?  We are glad that we haven't seen other people labeling our unjust attackers as "MASKING-FANATICS" or "the MKVD" or some other such thing.  We have not seen anyone attacking them by claiming that they must either (1) be of low intelligence or (2) insincere (because maybe they have lots of stock in mask-making corporations)!  So let us, please, have no more references to the horrifying, subversive "Anti-Maskers" among us.

 

There were so many attacks on us -- and so many errors in those attacks -- that we will not bother to take the time to debunk/refute them.  Instead, we will count on the clear-headed "lurkers" out there to notice those errors -- and then to wisely ignore them.  [Well, come to think of it ... we will mention just one prevalent error -- namely, the multiple, utterly incorrect references to our seven points (criticizing masks) as being "subjective."  The fact is that they are all OBJECTIVE points, not subjective -- in other words, matters of fact, not of opinion!  Had they just been our subjective/personal "feelings," we would not have bothered to post them!  Maybe the problem is that our critics didn't know the meaning of the words, "objective" and "subjective."]

 

If any of our former attackers have STILL not awakened to reality and what we were trying to do/say yesterday -- and they choose to attack us again ... well, that would mean that there's not much hope for him/her/them!  We would then just pity them, rather than correct them again.

 

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3 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

My experience:

 

We have a nice trail very nearby where I walk the dog daily. When COVID-19 came along, at first I didn't wear a mask, but when summer weather arrived and more and more people started using it to bike, walk and run, I frequently found myself with a group of people coming towards making no effort to maintain social distancing. I found it easier to simply wear a mask and not worry about it. I start off with it in my pocket, and on some walks I never need to don it.

 

When I head out in the car, I don't put on a mask until I'm about to enter the first store or other indoor location. If that's the only one I'm going to, I remove the mask before driving off home. But if I'm going to another store, I'll just leave it on. The mask is comfortable, doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I really don't worry about people wondering why I have a mask on in the car. :classic_biggrin:😷

 

 

 

Similarly when I go out for my early morning run (or walk on "rest" days), I tie a bandana around my nose, then lower it around my neck. If I'm approaching someone - either us going in opposite directions or me about to pass them - I pull the bandana up. Once distance has been achieved in passing, it gets lowered. Easy-peasy.

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12 minutes ago, jg51 said:

 

Notice, please, that "Lady Arwen" NEVER ADVOCATED BREAKING THE LAW OR RULES -- NOR RECOMMENDED THAT PEOPLE GO ON CRUISES AND AVOID WEARING MASKS!!!  Rather, she was saying that she will not GO on cruises until she is allowed to travel without a mask (all or most of the time, we assume).

 

After reading what "Lady Arwen" had written, we quoted her and began by saying this: "Agreed, 'Lady Arwen.'  [Masks] are disgusting for several reasons, including (but not limited to) the following ..."

We then gave seven reasons why we have found masks to be obnoxious -- so much so that WE, LIKE "LADY ARWEN," WILL AVOID CRUISING RATHER THAN WEAR A MASK (ALWAYS OR MOST OF THE TIME) ABOARD A SHIP. 

 

We later left a second post that included these words: "We have not encountered [anyone] "propagating disinformation" [against masks], and we ourselves do not do so.  Rather, we (1) explain facts regarding why masks are extremely unpleasant to so many, and (2) we offer an opinion that masks are disgusting, regardless of 'style and size.'  Nevertheless, we also wear masks where they are required by law ...!"

 

PLEASE NOTICE THAT, IN NEITHER OF OUR POSTS, DID WE ADVOCATE GOING WITHOUT A MASK (ON BOARD A SHIP, WHILE SHOPPING IN A SUPERMARKET, ETC.)!!!  We are AGAINST breaking the law or rules of a government or cruise line.

 

Now, why in the world -- you may be asking -- are we using upper case letters so much -- "shouting," some people call it?  It's because we were unjustifiably attacked by numerous CrCr members later yesterday or today -- folks who FAILED to read CALMLY and CAREFULLY what we stated.  Some people NEED TO HAVE THINGS SHOUTED AT THEM, so that they can hear the facts and think like adults, the second time around! 

 

Unfortunately, the first time around, several people here, seemingly acting out of sheer emotion (hatred, it almost seems), wrongly assumed that we belong to some kind of sub-human species called "anti-maskers," who advocate anarchy or at least law/rule-breaking!  They did not read our words CAREFULLY ENOUGH!

 

And what's with this "Anti-Masker" crud anyway?  Haven't people known since the 1960s (at least) that over-generalizing, stereotyping, and labeling people are forbidden in polite society?  We are glad that we haven't seen other people labeling our unjust attackers as "MASKING-FANATICS" or "the MKVD" or some other such thing.  We have not seen anyone attacking them by claiming that they must either (1) be of low intelligence or (2) insincere (because maybe they have lots of stock in mask-making corporations)!  So let us, please, have no more references to the horrifying, subversive "Anti-Maskers" among us.

 

There were so many attacks on us -- and so many errors in those attacks -- that we will not bother to take the time to debunk/refute them.  Instead, we will count on the clear-headed "lurkers" out there to notice those errors -- and then to wisely ignore them.  [Well, come to think of it ... we will mention just one prevalent error -- namely, the multiple, utterly incorrect references to our seven points (criticizing masks) as being "subjective."  The fact is that they are all OBJECTIVE points, not subjective -- in other words, matters of fact, not of opinion!  Had they just been our subjective/personal "feelings," we would not have bothered to post them!  Maybe the problem is that our critics didn't know the meaning of the words, "objective" and "subjective."]

 

If any of our former attackers have STILL not awakened to reality and what we were trying to do/say yesterday -- and they choose to attack us again ... well, that would mean that there's not much hope for him/her/them!  We would then just pity them, rather than correct them again.

 

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your posts.  Here in Canada, specifically in our province, mask wearing has been mandated and we wear one whenever we leave our home and we appreciate that everyone else does the same.  However, wearing a mask on a cruise, or any vacation for that matter, is just not for us.  If some of you feel differently, then by all means enjoy your cruise.  We prefer to wait until we feel comfortable, without having the restrictions of mask wearing.  Pretty much everything else we’ll adjust to it.

 

I really think that jg51, our cc member, has been treated unfairly.  Lately I’ve noticed  a growing trend on these boards to lash out at those with whom we disagree to the point of being rude.  Please stop these attacks on our fellow members.  We’re supposed to use these boards as a means of obtaining information and sharing our views while respecting others.  I’ve learned not to engage in conversation with certain members and I just leave when things get heated.  Please, let’s get back to civility and kindness and then we can all enjoy these discussions as these boards were meant to.

 

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I’m a surgery nurse and wear a mask 8-12 hours a day. If I have to wear a mask in close public spaces In order to escape “reality” for a while and enjoy the relaxation of a cruise..

I’m in. 
No criticism of those who can’t or won’t. We all have to decide what we will or won’t accept. 

 

 

 

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Not every "opinion" is really an opinion when the "facts" underlying that opinion are clearly wrong.  Someone who doubles-down on "objective facts" that are, in fact, not true, deserves to be corrected on this board or any other.  If that person is still unwilling to learn the truth, then that's on them.  I find it helpful when others dispel false information when it occurs.  Many websites have been removing blatant misinformation surrounding COVID-19 altogether.  This one doesn't, but the nature of discussion means that facts will be corrected.

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1 hour ago, jg51 said:

 

Notice, please, that "Lady Arwen" NEVER ADVOCATED BREAKING THE LAW OR RULES -- NOR RECOMMENDED THAT PEOPLE GO ON CRUISES AND AVOID WEARING MASKS!!!  Rather, she was saying that she will not GO on cruises until she is allowed to travel without a mask (all or most of the time, we assume).

 

After reading what "Lady Arwen" had written, we quoted her and began by saying this: "Agreed, 'Lady Arwen.'  [Masks] are disgusting for several reasons, including (but not limited to) the following ..."

We then gave seven reasons why we have found masks to be obnoxious -- so much so that WE, LIKE "LADY ARWEN," WILL AVOID CRUISING RATHER THAN WEAR A MASK (ALWAYS OR MOST OF THE TIME) ABOARD A SHIP. 

 

We later left a second post that included these words: "We have not encountered [anyone] "propagating disinformation" [against masks], and we ourselves do not do so.  Rather, we (1) explain facts regarding why masks are extremely unpleasant to so many, and (2) we offer an opinion that masks are disgusting, regardless of 'style and size.'  Nevertheless, we also wear masks where they are required by law ...!"

 

PLEASE NOTICE THAT, IN NEITHER OF OUR POSTS, DID WE ADVOCATE GOING WITHOUT A MASK (ON BOARD A SHIP, WHILE SHOPPING IN A SUPERMARKET, ETC.)!!!  We are AGAINST breaking the law or rules of a government or cruise line.

 

Now, why in the world -- you may be asking -- are we using upper case letters so much -- "shouting," some people call it?  It's because we were unjustifiably attacked by numerous CrCr members later yesterday or today -- folks who FAILED to read CALMLY and CAREFULLY what we stated.  Some people NEED TO HAVE THINGS SHOUTED AT THEM, so that they can hear the facts and think like adults, the second time around! 

 

Unfortunately, the first time around, several people here, seemingly acting out of sheer emotion (hatred, it almost seems), wrongly assumed that we belong to some kind of sub-human species called "anti-maskers," who advocate anarchy or at least law/rule-breaking!  They did not read our words CAREFULLY ENOUGH!

 

And what's with this "Anti-Masker" crud anyway?  Haven't people known since the 1960s (at least) that over-generalizing, stereotyping, and labeling people are forbidden in polite society?  We are glad that we haven't seen other people labeling our unjust attackers as "MASKING-FANATICS" or "the MKVD" or some other such thing.  We have not seen anyone attacking them by claiming that they must either (1) be of low intelligence or (2) insincere (because maybe they have lots of stock in mask-making corporations)!  So let us, please, have no more references to the horrifying, subversive "Anti-Maskers" among us.

 

There were so many attacks on us -- and so many errors in those attacks -- that we will not bother to take the time to debunk/refute them.  Instead, we will count on the clear-headed "lurkers" out there to notice those errors -- and then to wisely ignore them.  [Well, come to think of it ... we will mention just one prevalent error -- namely, the multiple, utterly incorrect references to our seven points (criticizing masks) as being "subjective."  The fact is that they are all OBJECTIVE points, not subjective -- in other words, matters of fact, not of opinion!  Had they just been our subjective/personal "feelings," we would not have bothered to post them!  Maybe the problem is that our critics didn't know the meaning of the words, "objective" and "subjective."]

 

If any of our former attackers have STILL not awakened to reality and what we were trying to do/say yesterday -- and they choose to attack us again ... well, that would mean that there's not much hope for him/her/them!  We would then just pity them, rather than correct them again.

 

Methinks you are misinterpreting some of the points being made, if you consider so many of the statements attacks on you.  Many of us were posting against people who won't wear masks - a general statement not directed at you or anyone else on these boards specifically.  And yes, many of the points being made were in fact subjective and not objective.  Some examples were pointed out, and in some case we posted our own opinions - which are just as valid as yours whether we agree or not.  No need to shout and no need to call people names like 'attackers'.  If you think these were attacks, I implore you to read some of the threads about dress codes or saving seats at the pool if you want to see what a real attack looks like.

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38 minutes ago, Lady Arwen said:

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your posts.  Here in Canada, specifically in our province, mask wearing has been mandated and we wear one whenever we leave our home and we appreciate that everyone else does the same.  However, wearing a mask on a cruise, or any vacation for that matter, is just not for us.  If some of you feel differently, then by all means enjoy your cruise.  We prefer to wait until we feel comfortable, without having the restrictions of mask wearing.  Pretty much everything else we’ll adjust to it.

 

I really think that jg51, our cc member, has been treated unfairly.  Lately I’ve noticed  a growing trend on these boards to lash out at those with whom we disagree to the point of being rude.  Please stop these attacks on our fellow members.  We’re supposed to use these boards as a means of obtaining information and sharing our views while respecting others.  I’ve learned not to engage in conversation with certain members and I just leave when things get heated.  Please, let’s get back to civility and kindness and then we can all enjoy these discussions as these boards were meant to.

 

 

The primary correction that was made for their post outlining why they will not wear them was that they erroneously stated that they cause you to inhale too much nitrogen and carbon dioxide. That has been proven multiple times that it is NOT true - not to mention all the medical professionals who wear masks for hours on end, and have well before COVID and yet none of them are falling over dead. That was not an "opinion" as they claim all of their reasons were - they stated that as fact when in fact it is NOT and does need correction.

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6 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

The primary correction that was made for their post outlining why they will not wear them was that they erroneously stated that they cause you to inhale too much nitrogen and carbon dioxide. That has been proven multiple times that it is NOT true - not to mention all the medical professionals who wear masks for hours on end, and have well before COVID and yet none of them are falling over dead. That was not an "opinion" as they claim all of their reasons were - they stated that as fact when in fact it is NOT and does need correction.

 Correction is fine and certainly appreciated if it’s done respectfully.  Some folks need to correct their tone.

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