CCL to remove two more ships from fleet beyond previous disclosure

[crusinbanjo]

On 8/2/2020 at 7:12 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

I had one once on the Westerdam.  Great experience and am thankful for it.  MSC's Yacht Club is a step above from my one experience on MSC Meraviglia in January.  

Mrs Banjo and I always try to book Neptune suites on HAL.  Favorite was When we got upgraded to the Pinacle Suite on Prinsendam.  That was fabulous!

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, iancal said:

My daughter has two children.  Any thoughts of taking her family on a cruise have disappeared from her mind.  Not even a consideration any more.   Perhaps it will be in three or four years.

 

I have a Nephew and Niece-in-law with two children plus a widowed Niece-in-Law with a child.  They live in Alaska and Maryland with the Alaska part of the family spending Christmas in Florida because of family there once in awhile.  All 3 of the children are really too young to truly appreciate what a cruise, particularly a holiday cruise, would provide.  But, it is my hope that sometime in the not too distant future, I will be able to provide that experience for them.  

 

On HAL?  Probably a Disney cruise would be most appropriate given the age of the children.  

 

 

[iancal]

No, she would not consider a family cruise on HAL.  It would be Disney.  Or RCI.  And if we took our grandchildren on a cruise it would in all likelihood be the same two options.

 

But who knows...post covid could be a completely different ball game for the cruise industry.   I suspect there will be significant changes at some cruise lines.

Edited September 2, 2020 by iancal

[KirkNC]

According to a recent article, NCL (NCL, Oceania and Regent) is in the process of putting all their ships but one into cold storage.  That tells you when they think cruising will restart given the long lead time to bring a ship back on line from cold storage.

Edited September 2, 2020 by KirkNC

[JJG99]

Wow KirkNC, just taking a peek at your future cruises, tends to make you the eternal optimist. Seven cruises booked for 2021, I hope they all come to fruition for you.  We have one booked for December 2021 return Sydney, and two booked from the US in Jan./Feb. 2022 and I thought I was an optimist.  You are an inspiration.

Jenny

[Randyk47]

If accurate NCL putting most of their combined fleet in cold storage is indeed a big WOW!   I did find this article that speaks to the layup.   http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

Edited September 2, 2020 by Randyk47

[Still traveling]

14 hours ago, KirkNC said:

According to a recent article, NCL (NCL, Oceania and Regent) is in the process of putting all their ships but one into cold storage.  That tells you when they think cruising will restart given the long lead time to bring a ship back on line from cold storage.

What is the source of your "Recent Article" Sounds like "fake news" to me. I think news like that should  include the source before scaring people

[cwtravel]

3 minutes ago, Still traveling said:

What is the source of your "Recent Article" Sounds like "fake news" to me. I think news like that should  include the source before scaring people

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning
 

do not believe it is “ Fake News”

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, Still traveling said:

What is the source of your "Recent Article" Sounds like "fake news" to me. I think news like that should  include the source before scaring people

Happy now......

 

[KirkNC]

15 hours ago, JJG99 said:

Wow KirkNC, just taking a peek at your future cruises, tends to make you the eternal optimist. Seven cruises booked for 2021, I hope they all come to fruition for you.  We have one booked for December 2021 return Sydney, and two booked from the US in Jan./Feb. 2022 and I thought I was an optimist.  You are an inspiration.

Jenny

Almost all is to use FCC’d.

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, cwtravel said:

http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning
 

do not believe it is “ Fake News”

 

It should be noted that the source of information is an anonymous NCL crewmember.  However, being that NCL hasn't disputed this info, I'm led to believe it's true.

[drowelf]

2 hours ago, Randyk47 said:

If accurate NCL putting most of their combined fleet in cold storage is indeed a big WOW!   I did find this article that speaks to the layup.   http://www.crew-center.com/nclh-cruise-ships-go-cool-lay-manning

It does not say cold, but Cool Layup. Whats the difference? 

 

Direct Quote from the referenced article. 

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas which are all part of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH) will further reduce its crew that are currently on board the ships as they enter a cool lay-up manning. The crew level will be below specified by the ship’s minimum safe manning operation, but still sufficient to satisfy maintenance and security requirements."

 

 

[Aquahound]

19 minutes ago, drowelf said:

It does not say cold, but Cool Layup. Whats the difference? 

 

Direct Quote from the referenced article. 

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas which are all part of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH) will further reduce its crew that are currently on board the ships as they enter a cool lay-up manning. The crew level will be below specified by the ship’s minimum safe manning operation, but still sufficient to satisfy maintenance and security requirements."

 

 

 

I'm not familiar with the term "cool layup."  Cold layup is akin to mothballing.  I'd assume by using the term cool, it'll be a few steps shy of a total mothball.  Unfortunately, the worst part of the news is the fact they'll fall below minimum crew standards.  That results in suspension of all class certifications.  Re-establishing these certifications could be time consuming and costly.  They include full inspection of hulls.

[sail7seas]

Have any of the other major cruise lines put one or more of their ships into "cool layup?"

 

The odds of any of such ships taking guests any time reasonably soon are possibly quite low.  What a job to get them manned and staffed again !

What with the whole global travel business blown up.   What will all those stewards, sailors, cooks, do for work.  Perhaps some  national navies may suit a number  ?  and be able to absorb some?

 

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

GIANT nightmare for so many hard working innocent persons from all corners of the world  !

 

 

[Randyk47]

1 hour ago, drowelf said:

It does not say cold, but Cool Layup. Whats the difference? 

 

Direct Quote from the referenced article. 

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises and Regent Seven Seas which are all part of Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH) will further reduce its crew that are currently on board the ships as they enter a cool lay-up manning. The crew level will be below specified by the ship’s minimum safe manning operation, but still sufficient to satisfy maintenance and security requirements."

 

 

Sorry that I typed cold instead of cool though I have no idea of the difference or if there is a difference.  Force of habit from my youth in the Pacific Northwest and having a part time fall job helping boat owners winterize their boats for the winter.   Cold layout for larger yachts, and I worked on many that were 60+ feet, meant we drained fuel, drained or protected all water systems, disconnected batteries and sometimes removed them from the boat, made sure all windows and hatches were closed and sealed tight, depending on the boat installed canvas covers over outside areas, and hooked up some shoreside power for lights.   It could take two to three weeks to bring a private yard back in line depending on its size and systems.  Now you take that to the mammoth undertaking that would be for a cruise ship and that would be mind boggling.    I think I read that with warm layup, which is more or less the present status of most cruise ships, it could take three or four weeks to get a ship cruise ready.   As I recall full cold layup can take three or more months to bring a ship back on line.   Again, no idea of what cool layup is but if that is a proper term it probably still means several weeks to ready a ship.   What struck me was the article was about NCL, the smallest of the big three cruise corporations, and that they could not continue to hemorrhage $160M a month to maintain their ships in their present state.   If they are spending $160M a month I wonder what CCL and RCL are laying out for their substantially larger fleets.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Randyk47

[Crazy For Cats]

While trying to find a difference between cool and cold layups I found the following article from a May.  It sounds like NCL’s cold layup has been in the planning stages for awhile.

 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/norwegian-works-to-stay-afloat-with-financing-and-cold-layup

[Randyk47]

15 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

While trying to find a difference between cool and cold layups I found the following article from a May.  It sounds like NCL’s cold layup has been in the planning stages for awhile.

 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/norwegian-works-to-stay-afloat-with-financing-and-cold-layup

I also couldn’t find a definition of “cool” layup.  That might be a slightly less level of cold layup that NCL has come up with.   It may be a mistake made by the writer of the article.   Maybe NCL is using cool rather than cold so as not to scare off passengers, crew, and investors.   I don’t know but for sure NCL doesn’t forecast a near term return to cruising of their whole fleet.  Eye opening and a bit worrisome.   

Edited September 2, 2020 by Randyk47

[Crazy For Cats]

9 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

I also couldn’t find a definition of “cool” layup.  That might be a slightly less level of cold layup that NCL has come up with.   It may be a mistake made by the writer of the article.   Maybe NCL is using cool rather than cold so as not to scare off passengers, crew, and investors.   I don’t know but for sure NCL doesn’t forecast a near term return to cruising of their whole fleet.  Eye opening and a bit worrisome.   

It is very worrisome.  Our next cruise is booked for May on Zaandam.  I still think that is a possibility.  We are keeping an eye on a holiday cruise for December but assume that is wishful thinking.

[Randyk47]

2 hours ago, Crazy For Cats said:

It is very worrisome.  Our next cruise is booked for May on Zaandam.  I still think that is a possibility.  We are keeping an eye on a holiday cruise for December but assume that is wishful thinking.

I have to say a December cruise is getting more and more doubtful but still possible.   If cruising hasn’t recovered pretty significantly by next May that means we are nose deep or even standing on our heads in the septic tank.   🥴   That would mean another explosion of the virus or a variant and that we don’t have a viable vaccine and equally viable treatment course.  Not good by any definition.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Randyk47

[rkacruiser]

44 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

I have to say a December cruise is getting more and more doubtful but still possible.   

 

I agree with your comment, but hope does still "spring eternal".  

[UPNYGuy]

On 7/29/2020 at 8:29 PM, DFD1 said:

 

Thanks for posting the link.  I don't read the notice as indicating HAL ships. There are lots of older ships in the Carnival collection of ships. I think the Zaandam is projected to do the world cruise in 2022. I sort of doubt they will get rid of either the Volendam or the Zaandam anytime soon...unless the whole industry comes crashing down.

 

The last past said it all. “...unless the whole industry comes crashing down.”

 

this is precisely what has happened. As much as i want to go on a cruise, i would not step foot on a ship right now. I am FAR more likely to go to a land based resort, where i have more space to myself. 

[Mary229]

For those who, like me, need a score card this is a quick list (prone to error) that I compiled of Carnival Corporation ships built in the 90s.  Taking at face value their statement to improve efficiency and maintenance costs I assume the older ships are the criteria.

One point, points guy says Fascination was sold, others say not.  I assume he is right.

 

AidaCara,  Carnival: Triumph, Elation, Paradis, Destiny, Sensation, Ecstasy, HAL:  Volendam, Princess: Grand Princess, Sun Princes, Sea Princess and Pacific Princess. (information from Wikipedia)

 

According to the Points Guy already sold are Maasdam, Veendam, Rotterdam, Amsterdam, Fantasy, Imagination, Inspiration, Fascination, Oceana and Victoria

[prescottbob]

On 8/28/2020 at 3:22 PM, frankc98376 said:

Very sad the Pacific Princess is as loved by Princess people as Prinsendam was to HAL passengers

Ditto.

 

Our favorite Princess line ship was the Pacific Princess & HAL line was the Elegant Explorer, aka the Prinsendam.

 

Regarding the Ryndam, I recall a 2005 cruise with Master Frans Consen (sp?) who loved rolling his R’s, had a wonderful outgoing nature & I enjoyed his private company at a bar or two during late evenings back when the captains mixed with cruisers.

 

Great memories. Onward we go into the future, no?

 

Be well.

Bob

[Copper10-8]

The score card:

 

The ten confirmed as sold:

1. Carnival Fantasy - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey

2. Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap and being broken up at Aliaga, Turkey 

3. Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap and arrived at Aliaga, Turkey on 14 Sep

4. Costa Victoria - sold to Genova Trasporti Marittimi for future scrapping
5. Costa neoRomantica - sold to Celestyal Cruises as Celestyal Experience
6. HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Borealis
7. HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen as Bolette
8. HAL Maasdam sold to Seajets as Aegean Myth
9. HAL Veendam sold to  Seajets as Aegean Majesty

10. P&O Oceana sold to Seajets as Queen of the Oceans

 

Long term layup/defacto decommissioned:

 

11. Carnival Fascination - moved to long term layup in Cadiz, Spain; no timeline for return to service

 

So, if you count Carnival Fascination, that leaves another seven unnamed ships to be disposed of to make eighteen - I'm not counting internal transfers within the Carnival Group, i.e. Golden Princess and Star Princess to P&O Australia