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seaman11

With no start in site in North America, ncl should allow refunds on previous fcc

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28 minutes ago, cruisingbooboo said:

Advice please.... my trip was also cancelled. I had booked with a travel agent, told her I wanted cash refund. She said she filed the claim and it takes up to 90 days. In the meantime I emailed her 3x asking about the refund. After the 90 days reached out to her again. She said she contacted her BCL rep but now sits too late for cash so I have a FCC👹. I told her how I didn’t want that, I trusted her.... she said she did her job,NCL messed up but I can try to call and fight with NCL.... gee thanks! Why did I use an agent?

before I call I want to know if anyone had this issue or luck with fixing it? Feel hopeless 💔

Your claim is with the TA, not NCL.

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1 hour ago, zqvol said:

Advice please.... my trip was also cancelled. I had booked with a travel agent, told her I wanted cash refund. She said she filed the claim and it takes up to 90 days. In the meantime I emailed her 3x asking about the refund. After the 90 days reached out to her again. She said she contacted her BCL rep but now sits too late for cash so I have a FCC👹. I told her how I didn’t want that, I trusted her.... she said she did her job,NCL messed up but I can try to call and fight with NCL.... gee thanks! Why did I use an agent?

before I call I want to know if anyone had this issue or luck with fixing it? Feel hopeless 💔

 

1 hour ago, zqvol said:

Your claim is with the TA, not NCL.

Your claim is with your credit card issues. Ignore the NCL defenders trying to extinguish your hope of getting your money rightfully refunded. I had a somewhat similar situation of bad or knowingly wrong information being given to me over the phone. Being stuck with likely worthless FCC, that I didn't ask for, was not an option for me. I submitted a chargeback request through USAA, my credit card issuer. I included the original guest ticket contract, and highlighted paragraph 6b. 

 

Paragraph 6(b) of Guest Ticket Contract reads: "If vessel does not sail on advertised or scheduled date for any reason, including the fault of the Carrier, the Guest agrees that the Carrier shall be entitled to substitute any other vessel or means of transportation, regardless of whether owned or operated by the Carrier, and to re-berth Guests thereon or, at the Carrier's option refund the fare paid or a pro rata portion thereof, without further liability for damages or losses of any kind whatsoever."  

 

USAA's investigation process was completed within two weeks. APPROVED! Leaving my credit card balance with a nice negative credit. Do the chargeback. The final decision is totally up to the issuer. It doesn't take much investigating to see through NCL's deceptive scheme to try to keep refunds from their customers that rightfully deserve them.

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I choose to cancel my cruise a day before the industry cancelled all cruises, I was willing to take the fcc. While I was on hold to cancel (they knew the reason for my call and had to transfer me) the line pushed thru an upgrade that we submitted for Haven and emailed the acceptance while I was on hold to cancel. When I contacted NCL all lines were busy and had to email for a response that I never received. We disputed the upgrade of $3000 fee with our  credit card, not the fcc. The card initially did the charge back then a month later reversed it. We disputed it again saying they knowingly accepted upgrade while were waiting to cancel with the time stamps from phone recorded and emails, clearly stating we accepted the fcc just not the upgrade charge that they will NEVER be able to provide on another cruise (we were awarded the haven PH suite) The credit card company again denied it. I just want the upgrade fee back, I willingly took the fcc I’m not expecting that refunded. I’m at a loss as to what to do at this point. I’m just disappointed that this tactic was used, I really enjoyed sailing on NCL and never had a problem with any sailing or customer service, but this is just bad business.

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40 minutes ago, cindi53 said:

I choose to cancel my cruise a day before the industry cancelled all cruises, I was willing to take the fcc. While I was on hold to cancel (they knew the reason for my call and had to transfer me) the line pushed thru an upgrade that we submitted for Haven and emailed the acceptance while I was on hold to cancel. When I contacted NCL all lines were busy and had to email for a response that I never received. We disputed the upgrade of $3000 fee with our  credit card, not the fcc. The card initially did the charge back then a month later reversed it. We disputed it again saying they knowingly accepted upgrade while were waiting to cancel with the time stamps from phone recorded and emails, clearly stating we accepted the fcc just not the upgrade charge that they will NEVER be able to provide on another cruise (we were awarded the haven PH suite) The credit card company again denied it. I just want the upgrade fee back, I willingly took the fcc I’m not expecting that refunded. I’m at a loss as to what to do at this point. I’m just disappointed that this tactic was used, I really enjoyed sailing on NCL and never had a problem with any sailing or customer service, but this is just bad business.

Florida Atty General

Home State Attorney General

Federal Maritime Commission

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On 8/1/2020 at 7:55 PM, Fido Chuckwagon said:

It is true that Seaman was one of the many people here who smugly argued the "it's just the flu we'll be sailing next month line."  I remember that argument well.  That said, he still doesn't deserve to lose his money because of NCL's shameless business tactics here.  I'm sympathetic to people like Seaman who were blinded by their political beliefs and are only now realizing the true scope of what is going on.  He should do a chargeback.  

didn't people take insurance? insurance should cover this, ours does. We were thinking on taking the refund but we paid so little for our coming Jade cruise that we decided to take the FCC, if for some reason NCL goes under we will file through our insurance.

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5 hours ago, spanishguy1970 said:

didn't people take insurance? insurance should cover this, ours does. We were thinking on taking the refund but we paid so little for our coming Jade cruise that we decided to take the FCC, if for some reason NCL goes under we will file through our insurance.

Your insurance is almost certainly not going to cover you if you had insurance on the initial cruise and then took the FCC, and then use the FCC for a new cruise and then NCL goes under, for a myriad of reasons.  

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10 minutes ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

Your insurance is almost certainly not going to cover you if you had insurance on the initial cruise and then took the FCC, and then use the FCC for a new cruise and then NCL goes under, for a myriad of reasons.  

We asked our Travel agent who has done our travel for years and yes our insurance will cover it, otherwise we would have taken the refund.

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5 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

We asked our Travel agent who has done our travel for years and yes our insurance will cover it, otherwise we would have taken the refund.

That doesn't sound right to me, but I hope your agent is right. You might double check with your insurance company. They might argue you were made "whole" when you accepted FCC. Thus, there was no economic loss. Insurance can be very delicate.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, luv2kroooz said:

That doesn't sound right to me, but I hope your agent is right. You might double check with your insurance company. They might argue you were made "whole" when you accepted FCC. Thus, there was no economic loss. Insurance can be very delicate.

Yeah, trip insurance covers the trip.  It’s not going to cover some subsequent trip that is paid for with a voucher from the first trip that had the insurance on it.  He really should call the insurance company and not rely on his travel agent here.  

Edited by Fido Chuckwagon

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On 8/1/2020 at 11:42 PM, seaman11 said:

Wrong . they cant provide the service, again happy to take the fcc and use it.  i can afford to lose the initial investment, but that is immaterial. Many can't.   NCL can not provide the service as promised. its pretty simple, if they had cruises going and i wanted my money back you would have a valid point. 

Hi seaman, hope you are safe, I would ask your ccc for a charge back, one NCL hasn’t issued a restart date, and also it obvious the next cruise you sail on will have no resemblance of the cruising you previously enjoyed, therefore you are entitled to a full refund, under the conditions NCL are selling something designed to do the job you originally thought. Sale of goods act 1979.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Fido Chuckwagon said:

Yeah, trip insurance covers the trip.  It’s not going to cover some subsequent trip that is paid for with a voucher from the first trip that had the insurance on it.  He really should call the insurance company and not rely on his travel agent here.  

we have been using this insurance for over 10 years, we have used it before in with no problem, believe me we got this, but thanks for the concern.

Edited by spanishguy1970

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20 minutes ago, spanishguy1970 said:

we have been using this insurance for over 10 years, we have used it before in with no problem, believe me we got this, but thanks for the concern.

How many times in the last 10 years have you had to make a claim against the insurance because your insured trip was cancelled due to a pandemic, you accepted a voucher for a new cruise, and then the subsequent cruise was also cancelled due to a pandemic?

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Ok so I had a cruise in April and it got cancelled. Got FCC and with the extra 20% reserved a cruise for November. If the November cruise gets cancelled too do I at least get a extra 25% bonus or nothing. Guess getting a refund now is out of the question....

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18 minutes ago, Comi.uy said:

Ok so I had a cruise in April and it got cancelled. Got FCC and with the extra 20% reserved a cruise for November. If the November cruise gets cancelled too do I at least get a extra 25% bonus or nothing. Guess getting a refund now is out of the question....

Some said no , but i had three cancelled and i now have around $1500 fcc and i started with $700 initial payment.  I dont have any ncl booked now , was waiting for prices to come down and they have a bit. 

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Jumping in late here, but I agree with Seaman.  My May cruise was cancelled.  I took the FCC hoping that November would certainly work, since we usually cruise over Thanksgiving anyway.  They have my $3K still and I believe that I also have two cruise next certificates that will expire before cruising starts again.  Too much money tied up in a service that may not happen. Was it short sighted not to take the refund?  Probably, but I still believe if they keep getting cancelled we should ultimately be able to get a refund back.  At this point, the FCC's are also on my kids' accounts and this isn't fair either.  Who knows when they will be able to cruise again with school schedules and one going to college? The money should go back to my account only.

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3 minutes ago, dna529 said:

 At this point, the FCC's are also on my kids' accounts and this isn't fair either.  Who knows when they will be able to cruise again with school schedules and one going to college? The money should go back to my account only.

This is absolutely true too. FCC should go 100% to the payor account, they way they handle is is ****.

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On 8/5/2020 at 5:43 PM, Fido Chuckwagon said:

How many times in the last 10 years have you had to make a claim against the insurance because your insured trip was cancelled due to a pandemic, you accepted a voucher for a new cruise, and then the subsequent cruise was also cancelled due to a pandemic?

Making a claim against an insurance company is like hitting your head against the wall. No matter how hard you hit.. the wall will remain and only laugh at you. One of the possible resolutions of this situation is, well, to keep hitting them with requests (hoping for the best) but as long as you keep a contact with them the more likely you will get your money back 

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I just read a USA Today article where Del Rio says relaunch will take six months.  Please stop advertising and selling cruises that will never happen then!

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15 minutes ago, Comi.uy said:

This is absolutely true too. FCC should go 100% to the payor account, they way they handle is is ****.

I believe they have changed the rules so that you can request the fcc - I don't know if it is retroactive however. Would be worth a phone call.

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31 minutes ago, dna529 said:

I just read a USA Today article where Del Rio says relaunch will take six months.  Please stop advertising and selling cruises that will never happen then!

Well he really didn't say that in the call today. He did speak about the notion of a phased approach which will extend for up to six months. I interpreted it to mean they'll start with one or two ships running short itineraries as soon as they are cleared to sail. Then add a couple more, etc. Del Rio projected it would be at least 2Q of 2021 before they were fully ramped up ( under the most optimistic scenario).

 

But yes, you are right, to the extent they are marketing an entire fleet of sailings in December, it is true that some of those sailings will not operate according to Del Rio.

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Posted (edited)

I doubt that NCLH will be willing to convert the FCC's to cash refund anytime soon.  From their last quarterly results they still have 1.1 Billion is customer deposits at the end of June (probably most in the form of FCC's now) down from 1.9 Billion last quarter (end of March).  That amount to about half of the value of what they have in cash and cash equivalents,  2.26 billion at the end of June.

 

With a 160 million per month burn rate they will hold on to whatever cash they can.

Edited by npcl

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Posted (edited)
  • It seems to me that anyone who takes the FCC (instead of cash) assumes all the risks of varied schedules, itineraries, ships, ports,  availability, terms & conditions, and even cruiseline duplicity and possible bankruptcy.
Edited by latserrof

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31 minutes ago, latserrof said:
  • It seems to me that anyone who takes the FCC (instead of cash) assumes all the risks of varied schedules, itineraries, ships, ports,  availability, terms & conditions, and even cruiseline duplicity and possible bankruptcy.

I think that is definitely true as of today. Not sure I feel this way about decisions made in March, even though I took the cash refund in March,  when the magnitude of the pandemic was still developing.

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1 hour ago, latserrof said:
  • It seems to me that anyone who takes the FCC (instead of cash) assumes all the risks of varied schedules, itineraries, ships, ports,  availability, terms & conditions, and even cruiseline duplicity and possible bankruptcy.

All true ..... When having the option of choosing cash or FCC the choice of FCC was a poor one. NCL knew all along and had a financial plan to weather the storm. Give cash refunds as a last resort and have them wait for months for that refund while they hold that cash ..... Give FCC to those unsuspecting souls while raising cruise prices above the value of the FCC’s in hand thus resulting in more money out of pocket from those same guests .....Lastly, issue FCC that may never even have the possibility to be used thus 100% profit for NCL while the guest loses everything while receiving nothing. They won’t let you change your mind especially if it’s the CDC telling them they can’t sail and not them choosing not to.

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Posted (edited)

Interesting topic.

 

As one of the customers who elected to cancel a few days before the cruise was cancelled in March, I was not offered a cash refund, nor the 125% FCC gross-up.  I got 100% FCC (including my insurance premium).  That was my decision as I felt it was unsafe to take my family on the cruise, whether it went ahead or not.  No one has a crystal ball, but of course I would have taken the cash refund had I known it was going to be ultimately cancelled anyway.   Should I have waited until the last minute to cancel?  (hindsight 20/20, I'm a pretty risk averse person).

 

As some have mentioned on this thread, the prices of the NCL cruises are going up, and will continue to go up.  This is a function of the fact that they need to start to recoup losses once they do sail again, and the 125% FCC which ostensibly is like NCL "printing money" for an inflationary effect on prices.   

 

The other thing that weighs on my mind is how restricted will passenger sizes be once they can cruise again?   If the passenger ratio is 50% or anything close to that, of course that will further put pressure on prices (if anything is still available), as supply will be even lower, but all this FCC due to expire Dec 2021 is obviously creating a lot of pent-up demand.  All these cruises that are fully booked in the coming months, will be cancelled.  Then when they do get to sail, how do they decide who actually gets to go on the cruise if they are at 50% capacity (as an example)?  LIFO?

 

So if I'm booked on a cruise, but the ship is "overcapacity" based on what the operating decisions are at the time, do I get booted off and then left to rebook (hopefully) on another cruise that I can accommodate with my work schedule, by the end of 2021?  What will the price of that cruise be at that time?   It's an inflationary trap.  So almost certainly I'll need to pay more money out of my pocket so as to not lose my entire initial "investment" in the cruise.  One can debate whether they think these additional dollars or a loss or not (I sure think they are), but at the very least it is forcing me to throw good money after bad, else I lose it all.

 

Maybe we'll all be lucky (not just cruising but generally) with a miracle vaccine in miracle time.   Failing that, if NCL extends the deadline for using FCC by at least another year, it would alleviate some of the demand vs. supply pressure.  But I can't imagine them doing that until they either feel political pressure to do so, or it suits them based on their financial projections.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by GettotheSun
oops typo

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