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1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

I had a mild flu response over 30 years ago but I have never had a flu vaccine. Having said that, I will be first in line for the Covid vaccine. The quicker we achieve herd immunity from Covid, the quicker we can go back to a normal life, including being able to cruise and have normal sports with fans in the stands. We need to achieve herd immunity to get the economy back to normal. A vaccine is necessary to achieve herd immunity safely. I surely hope those who are anti-vaccine will look at the big picture with this Covid disease.

Quoting myself here.........not to mention, getting back to cruising. We need herd immunity to do that. More people who receive the vaccine, herd immunity can be achieved. It is a very personal decision to receive the vaccine, I understand that. When the time comes, make your decision and know why you have made that decision.

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3 hours ago, coffeebean said:

You are referring to "herd immunity". Without a vaccine, when we reach herd immunity in America, many more people will die. Those people will not have to die if we reach herd immunity with a vaccine.


A vaccine is absolutely needed to reach herd immunity.  I agree completely.  But they have no idea how many people have been infected thus far and I believe we are further along than most people believe.  Vast majority are asymptomatic 

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2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Quoting myself here.........not to mention, getting back to cruising. We need herd immunity to do that. More people who receive the vaccine, herd immunity can be achieved. It is a very personal decision to receive the vaccine, I understand that. When the time comes, make your decision and know why you have made that decision.

I get my vaccines on a regular basis.    Flu shot every Oct/Nov, Hep A and pneumonia.    The question will be when a covid 19 vaccine becomes available is whether or not everyone will be allowed to get it.    i.e. my DH is an organ transplant recipient who takes daily anti-rejection meds and will do so for the rest of his life.    He is a high risk person for many illnesses due to his daily meds.    He is not able to take certain vaccine because they are "live" virus vaccines.     

I read an interview where Dr Fauci said the group of 30,000 volunteers for this phase of the moderna vaccine trial will include some high risk individuals that will be closely monitored for side effects, etc.    

I am truly hoping that he will be able to receive the vaccine if one will exist in the future.    

On a funny note, back when he first got his transplant the doctors actually had him and I attend a class on the proper way to wash your hands.     I couldn't believe I was sitting in a class at the hospital for something like a half hour on how to wash my hands.    We laugh every time we get on the cruise and hear that song.

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On 8/4/2020 at 2:44 PM, time4u2go said:

You're kidding, right?  Sweden had the 8th most deaths per capita of EVERY country:

 

image.thumb.png.46b785b042ed606b8e6fefbefd1bd06b.png

According to everything that I have read from medical specialists there have been more deaths and a multitude of other complications from shutting down the economy than from Covid. Also Sweden didn't shut down their country and economy. Did they have the highest death rate in the world? Also, Sweden's deaths are not per capita they are per cases. Sweden has 10.5 million people. The death rate be capita is 5,747 divided by 10.5 million which is minuscule. Bet more people die from falling off bicycles than from Covid in Sweden. 

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8 minutes ago, Floridastorm said:

Also, Sweden's deaths are not per capita they are per cases.

Not sure what you mean by that.  Look at the right-most column.  It's deaths per 1 million population, which is a way of stating per capita.

 

Also, I never suggested that there weren't deaths and other complications from other things related to shutting down the economy.  I was responding to someone that said, regarding Sweden, "They are now pretty much back to normal and had fewer deaths per capita then most other countries that shut down everything."

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:39 AM, 20165 said:

so that means that 2-3+ people per 100 die depending on what stat you believe.  Is that ok?  I know 100 people.  I dont want 2-3 to die of covid.

The death rate per capita is 160,000 out of 330 million people for Covid one of the lowest death rates per capita in the world. Death rate for Cancer 680.000, Heart disease over 600,000, Respiratory diseases over 160,000. No hysteria and panic about all of those rates. I have heard that more people have died or have become incapacitated from the shutdown than from Covid. Not to mention the total destruction to our economy which will take people and the country at large years to get over.

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9 minutes ago, Floridastorm said:

The death rate per capita is 160,000 out of 330 million people for Covid one of the lowest death rates per capita in the world.

Can you provide a source for where you are getting your Covid death rates per capita information?  The things that you have been stating don't align with the sources I've seen. I'd be curious to compare.

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26 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Not sure what you mean by that.  Look at the right-most column.  It's deaths per 1 million population, which is a way of stating per capita.

 

Also, I never suggested that there weren't deaths and other complications from other things related to shutting down the economy.  I was responding to someone that said, regarding Sweden, "They are now pretty much back to normal and had fewer deaths per capita then most other countries that shut down everything."

I would say that Sweden had a pretty low death rate per capita for not destroying their country and economy. Remember, by not destroying their economy millions of their people were not destroyed along with it. We and many other countries destroyed our economies and still had many people die from Covid. There is just to much in the way of alternative information out there for me to believe that shutting down our country was even the sane thing to do. This virus will be among us for years as is the common flu virus is every winter. Are we going to keep the country shut down until not one person dies from Covid? Even with a vaccine its efficacy will be no better than 50 or 60% just like the common flu vaccine. People are going to continue to die from viruses forever. It's called life.

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Just now, Floridastorm said:

Even with a vaccine its efficacy will be no better than 50 or 60% just like the common flu vaccine.

Where did you get this information?  Can you provide a source?  Again, it goes against what I've seen.

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4 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Can you provide a source for where you are getting your Covid death rates per capita information?  The things that you have been stating don't align with the sources I've seen. I'd be curious to compare.

It's commonly know as simple mathematics. 160,000 deaths divided by 330 million people is 0.0045%. Use a calculator if you must. 0.0045% is one of the lowest per capita percentages. Deaths by disease annually in the US: Heart 650,000, Cancer 600,000, Respiratory 160,000, Stroke 150,000, Unintentional Injuries 170,000. Of course this is not counting the amount of deaths and destruction caused by shutting out country and economy down and the millions of people's live ruined in the interim.

If you want to worry to death about the mostly elderly people with chronic conditions that would have died with or without Covid then be my guest. I will continue to worry about the suicides, family breakups, evictions, lost homes, lost possessions, excess drug and alcohol use, and lost livelihoods.

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1 minute ago, Floridastorm said:

It's commonly know as simple mathematics. 160,000 deaths divided by 330 million people is 0.0045%.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand how to calculate percentage?  160000/330000000 is 0.00048.  You then multiply by 100 to get percentage: 0.00048 X 100 = 0.048%.

 

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to provide your list of per capita Covid deaths...

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7 minutes ago, Floridastorm said:

It's commonly know as simple mathematics. 160,000 deaths divided by 330 million people is 0.0045%. Use a calculator if you must. 0.0045% is one of the lowest per capita percentages. Deaths by disease annually in the US: Heart 650,000, Cancer 600,000, Respiratory 160,000, Stroke 150,000, Unintentional Injuries 170,000. Of course this is not counting the amount of deaths and destruction caused by shutting out country and economy down and the millions of people's live ruined in the interim.

If you want to worry to death about the mostly elderly people with chronic conditions that would have died with or without Covid then be my guest. I will continue to worry about the suicides, family breakups, evictions, lost homes, lost possessions, excess drug and alcohol use, and lost livelihoods.

Better get your simple calculator back out.  It's .00048.  Which is .048%.

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15 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

Why is it so difficult for people to understand how to calculate percentage?  160000/330000000 is 0.00048.  You then multiply by 100 to get percentage: 0.00048 X 100 = 0.048%.

 

Anyway, I'm still waiting for you to provide your list of per capita Covid deaths...

It's not just bad math (which it is), it's an attempt to play with the numbers to make an unsupported political point.

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1 hour ago, Floridastorm said:

The death rate per capita is 160,000 out of 330 million people for Covid one of the lowest death rates per capita in the world. Death rate for Cancer 680.000, Heart disease over 600,000, Respiratory diseases over 160,000. No hysteria and panic about all of those rates. I have heard that more people have died or have become incapacitated from the shutdown than from Covid. Not to mention the total destruction to our economy which will take people and the country at large years to get over.

 

I don't believe that 160,000 covid number.  They list a covid death as anyone who dies of "whatever" and has covid, they list it as a covid death.  Follow the money.  Not saying that covid isn't bad, but the hype about it being a pandemic is overstated, in my opinion.  I'm learning not to believe most things you hear in the news, especially if it's all about doom and gloom.   My source, if you are asking, is common sense.   🍷

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40 minutes ago, yogimax said:

It's not just bad math (which it is), it's an attempt to play with the numbers to make an unsupported political point.

Yeah that particular poster comes on here every so often and posts pretty nonsensical things without any sources or references, then disappears for a while.

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31 minutes ago, Wine-O said:

 

I don't believe that 160,000 covid number.  They list a covid death as anyone who dies of "whatever" and has covid, they list it as a covid death.  

Scientific American says the opposite!  

 

"However, data on excess deaths in the United States over the past several months suggest that COVID-19 deaths are probably being undercounted rather than overcounted."

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On 8/3/2020 at 11:05 AM, moda cruise said:

If vaccines become mandatory to cruise  This will be another blow for cruise lines  A lot of people do not trust vaccines 

I don't think anyone has to worry about the vaccine becoming mandatory. But I can assure you that there will be a ton that will choose other vacations over getting this vaccine. I'm in that group. There is no chance in the world I would EVER take this vaccine, and I am not an anti-vaxer at all. The problem with this vaccine is that it is being "rushed" and not properly tested. Not to mention that the mortality rate for this virus doesn't warrant the need to take the vaccine.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 11:10 AM, TheMastodon said:

 

I don't want to be around those people anyways.  

Um, ok. Not sure what is so wrong about someone who refuses to take a vaccine that has not been properly tested and that is being rushed. I cannot imagine why someone would rush to get this vaccine without knowing the long term effects. But...that doesn't make me want to not be around that person.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 2:44 PM, flyguyjake said:

It's truly unbelievable that any government would push to reopen their economies too rapidly without first containing this virus. Nearly every country has experienced a surge when reopening. I get that businesses need money but at what cost? Cruise ships cannot afford anymore negative publicity. Airlines are parking planes in long term storage. They anticipate normal air travel will not return until 2024. Cruise lines need to start planning much more long term. These stupid 30-60 day delays aren't helping anyone. And taking reservations for ships destined for the scrap yard is very a deceptive practice IMHO. I do not think cruise lines should be playing games like this with their most loyal customers.

I'm a numbers gal, and a realist. I do my own research and don't follow the crap the media wants to feed you. The numbers do not warrant the shut down. The numbers do not warrant the fear mongering. And while I'm on the topic of numbers, it has been proven over and over again that the numbers have been inaccurate in many MANY states. As for the delays, the fact is they need to just open up. If people feel UNSAFE, then by all means, stay home or choose another vacation. I don't see anyone playing any games. These cruiselines are at the mercy of the CDC unfortunately, and they are trying to do everything in their power to reopen. This is such a fluid situation and things can change daily. You can bet there are plenty of folks that would get on a cruise ship this weekend, even if it went out in the ocean and floated around. Sure beats sitting around watching the ridiculousness of what is happening around most of our country right now.

 

On 8/3/2020 at 3:00 PM, Milwaukee Eight said:

And what cost if some opening is not permitted?  How do you contain this Virus?

 

We wear our masks and practice social distancing. 
 

M8

There is no way to "contain" the virus. People seem to think it will just go away...

 

On 8/3/2020 at 3:48 PM, lovescats5 said:
  • What would you expect.  You make people stay home, thus increasing domestic abuse, and all the other things that drive people nuts.  Then you open a little of stores or cruise lines or whatever and now everyone is upset because there is an increase.  I am one of those people everyone dislikes.  I do not believe in masks, I think we need to let life get back to whatever normal will be.  If you do not want to take a chance on sailing, stay home.  I am in the high risk group because of age but am so tired of hearing and listening to people complain about not wanting to live until a vaccine is developed.  I had a niece die from the flu, and she got a flu vaccine.  There is no vaccine that will keep everyone safe.  Check the numbers on the swine flu and the regular flu.  Less than 1% of people have died from Covid.  Do I want people to die, no, but I am tired of having someone tell me how to live my life and what I should do.  Go ahead, give me your negative comments, tell me I am wrong in what I believe.  Won't change my mind like I won't change your mind.  I want to cruise, if you are afraid of cruising stay home in your house and let life pass you by.  My opinion only, which I am entitled to.

No negatively here. I feel everyone is entitled to their opinions. After all, those that don't agree with you have their own opinion, why not be able to have your own. I too feel quite the same as you do.

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On 8/5/2020 at 5:53 AM, TheMastodon said:


Scientists got it wrong in the beginning and majority of USA locked down too late - that ship has sailed.  
 

And if USA were the size of New Z, Taiwan, South Korea, and Singapore we would have been just as successful containing the virus.  What’s easier to manage - 100 head of cattle or 10,000? 

 

I might add... personal health. If as a nation of people, we was not overweight, over medicated, obese, under exercised, & fast food junkies... we'd probably be a bit more successful w/ the COVID virus as well. 

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36 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Scientific American says the opposite!  

 

"However, data on excess deaths in the United States over the past several months suggest that COVID-19 deaths are probably being undercounted rather than overcounted."

I've had this argument with many people over the past several months. HERE is my issue with the numbers the CDC pushes out. Right from their own website, they cannot give EXACT flu numbers...but instead give a 'range', which by the way...happens to be a fairly large range. So, if they cannot even give accurate to the number flu numbers, which they have been tracking for decades, how on earth can you believe a straight flat out number for Covid?? It is impossible! I personally have had two friends with loved ones die during this mess that are still fighting to get the death certificates fixed because they listed Covid ... when one never got tested and the other was tested and negative. There is a lot of mis information and calculations being put out there. Not to mention, if you get tested positive, and then go back to get tested again...that is counted as 2 cases, not one! I could go on and on.

image.thumb.png.f6c13b04ecae0994b3a88d3c7cd6f18f.png

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29 minutes ago, MrsKC08 said:

 I could go on and on.

 

I also could go on and cite evidence that supports exactly the opposite, but what's the point?  I think a good number of people, if not the majority, have their minds made up.  My sense is that much of it is based, not on science, but politics!

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57 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

I might add... personal health. If as a nation of people, we was not overweight, over medicated, obese, under exercised, & fast food junkies... we'd probably be a bit more successful w/ the COVID virus as well. 


Bingo.  

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1 hour ago, MrsKC08 said:

I don't think anyone has to worry about the vaccine becoming mandatory. But I can assure you that there will be a ton that will choose other vacations over getting this vaccine. I'm in that group. There is no chance in the world I would EVER take this vaccine, and I am not an anti-vaxer at all. The problem with this vaccine is that it is being "rushed" and not properly tested. Not to mention that the mortality rate for this virus doesn't warrant the need to take the vaccine.

 

Um, ok. Not sure what is so wrong about someone who refuses to take a vaccine that has not been properly tested and that is being rushed. I cannot imagine why someone would rush to get this vaccine without knowing the long term effects. But...that doesn't make me want to not be around that person.

 

I'm a numbers gal, and a realist. I do my own research and don't follow the crap the media wants to feed you. The numbers do not warrant the shut down. The numbers do not warrant the fear mongering. And while I'm on the topic of numbers, it has been proven over and over again that the numbers have been inaccurate in many MANY states. As for the delays, the fact is they need to just open up. If people feel UNSAFE, then by all means, stay home or choose another vacation. I don't see anyone playing any games. These cruiselines are at the mercy of the CDC unfortunately, and they are trying to do everything in their power to reopen. This is such a fluid situation and things can change daily. You can bet there are plenty of folks that would get on a cruise ship this weekend, even if it went out in the ocean and floated around. Sure beats sitting around watching the ridiculousness of what is happening around most of our country right now.

 

There is no way to "contain" the virus. People seem to think it will just go away...

 

No negatively here. I feel everyone is entitled to their opinions. After all, those that don't agree with you have their own opinion, why not be able to have your own. I too feel quite the same as you do.


This isn’t Russia.  The vaccine will be safe - smartest people in the world working on it.  I am on board w the vax so we can prevent spread and assist with herd immunity and ending this madness fueled by beta men, CNN and scared moms.  

 

I agree with you that the mortality rate is extremely low - by even conservative estimates it’s a 99.9x% survival rate (most are asymptomatic) 


Appreciate smart posts like yours with some uncommon sense.  Cheers to you!!

 

 

 

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