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pappy1022

What Criteria Will You Use to Conclude It Is Safe To Cruise Again

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5 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Would this be after I hire a lawyer and file suit?  It would seem that up until that point, he who has the money makes the rules.  And maybe what I think is ambiguous is in fact just intentionally (or even unintentionally) confusing to someone who is not well versed in insurance jargon and legalese.

Not saying that, you can always represent yourself but, if the words are deemed ambiguous by some type of authority they are construed against the writer.  Really depends on how ambiguous  Contracts are supposed to be written clearly and without wiggle room.  Perhaps a lawyer or perhaps the writer of the ambiguous words will simply agree.  YMMV.

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2 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Not saying that, you can always represent yourself but, if the words are deemed ambiguous by some type of authority they are construed against the writer.  Really depends on how ambiguous  Contracts are supposed to be written clearly and without wiggle room.  Perhaps a lawyer or perhaps the writer of the ambiguous words will simply agree.  YMMV.

 

Real estate law is the same. 

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5 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

Crank music by the pool, change the entertainment, put in a dance club - good to go.

 

Really?  With those prices?  It's going to be tough to find lots of people in their 30's and 40's who can drop $1k/pp/pd.  It would take a huge "sea change", so to speak, and a gigantic add campaign.

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2 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

Real estate law is the same. 

Of course.  It isn't any specific type of Contract, any and all contracts apply no matter the type.  A Contract is a Contract.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

Really?  With those prices?  It's going to be tough to find lots of people in their 30's and 40's who can drop $1k/pp/pd.  It would take a huge "sea change", so to speak, and a gigantic add campaign.

I was just thinking the same thing; my oldest daughter (late 20s) makes decent money.  But she's not in a position to drop the $$ for a Regent cruise for anything other than a VERY special occasion.  She sure wouldn't sail as much as I do...and I don't sail nearly as often as I'd like.

 

I see this demographic flocking to Virgin, not Regent. (Assuming Virgin survives this moratorium)

Edited by UUNetBill
Added a line

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5 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

Really?  With those prices?  It's going to be tough to find lots of people in their 30's and 40's who can drop $1k/pp/pd.  It would take a huge "sea change", so to speak, and a gigantic add campaign.

 

Respectfully, it's not hard to find those people anymore. I know a number of Platinum Regent clients under 40.

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6 minutes ago, UUNetBill said:

I was just thinking the same thing; my oldest daughter (late 20s) makes decent money.  But she's not in a position to drop the $$ for a Regent cruise for anything other than a VERY special occasion.  She sure wouldn't sail as much as I do...and I don't sail nearly as often as I'd like.

 

I see this demographic flocking to Virgin, not Regent. (Assuming Virgin survives this moratorium)

 

I think Regent might have to expand their market. I don't know what business you are in but not that long ago the house next door to ours went for $3.2 million and the couple was about 28. I have a friend under 30 who has made 8 figures in Bitcoin in the last 3 years. Its a different world out there now compared to when I was 25.

 

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1 minute ago, Pcardad said:

 

I think Regent might have to expand their market. I don't know what business you are in but not that long ago the house next door to ours went for $3.2 million and the couple was about 28. I have a friend under 30 who has made 8 figures in Bitcoin in the last 3 years. Its a different world out there now compared to when I was 25.

 

 

Exactly, the money to spend is there.   This executive said the focus would be on giving them exclusive and unique experiences, which is what they already do, just for a different demographic.   Not many changes would be needed on the actual boats at this point.   

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5 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

I think Regent might have to expand their market. I don't know what business you are in but not that long ago the house next door to ours went for $3.2 million and the couple was about 28. I have a friend under 30 who has made 8 figures in Bitcoin in the last 3 years. Its a different world out there now compared to when I was 25.

 

Statistically, I think that couple might have been an outlier.  For every 20-something couple that can afford a $3 million plus house, there are thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of 20-something singles sitting in their apartments alone tweeting about how they'll never get married or be able to afford a house, any house.

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35 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

Insurance can be useful sometimes, but in my experience it is often carefully designed to not cover what actually happens.

 

I agree that it is necessary to check & double-check what an insurance policy is actually likely to cover; the wording can be ambiguous.

In the UK most insurers have been trying to side-step the deluge of claims resulting from this Coronavirus pandemic.

 

There is a major court case ongoing at present regarding "interpretation" of certain insurance clauses:

BBC News April 2020

BBC News July 2020

FCA Test Case

 

............... and while the arguments and court cases roll on, many of the affected businesses and individuals have sadly gone to the wall ☹️

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1 minute ago, UUNetBill said:

Statistically, I think that couple might have been an outlier.  For every 20-something couple that can afford a $3 million plus house, there are thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of 20-something singles sitting in their apartments alone tweeting about how they'll never get married or be able to afford a house, any house.

 

All true - but I suspect there are enough to to warrant targeting them if their current client base become nonviable.

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8 minutes ago, UUNetBill said:

Statistically, I think that couple might have been an outlier.  For every 20-something couple that can afford a $3 million plus house, there are thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of 20-something singles sitting in their apartments alone tweeting about how they'll never get married or be able to afford a house, any house.

And, don't forget about the 10's of millions of 20 and 30 somethings both singles and married who are sitting in their parents homes and unable to pay their bills leth alone afford a house, any house.

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Just now, Pcardad said:

 

All true - but I suspect there are enough to to warrant targeting them if their current client base become nonviable.

Agreed.  When you think about it, let's say the Virgin ship carries 1,000 people and sails an average of 10 day cruises.  That's 3,000 passengers or so each month, or 36,000 a year.  Figuring there are just over a billion 20-somethings out there, I'm sure they can find that percentage to fill some ships...

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3 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

All true - but I suspect there are enough to to warrant targeting them if their current client base become nonviable.

People in this category will want private yachts not a luxury cruise line!!

Also this conversation is not allowing for the current multi-national passenger mix in the future. 

The other elephant in the room is crew , how do they live in social distance and get to the ship, I think international flights will be very curtailed especially from places like the Philippines, where there will not be the demand and so the schedules will reduce greatly. 

For example we are booked on the Voyager in Jan21 from Buenos Aires, already all direct flights from London have been cancelled, equally our return flight from Lima has also been changed. I am not expecting this cruise to sail, but 5 months out the flights are an issue, meaning many future cruise itineraries will have to change to get people to embarkation.

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A small group might lean towards a charter. A couple may prefer a more social setting. Also, keep in mind that a charter is a lot more expensive and doesn't usually offer the variety of ports that Regent does.

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Posted (edited)

Fortunately,  some of our children can easily afford a Regent cruise. However, cruising is not their wheelhouse. They tell us cruising is for them later in life, when they retire. 
Now they travel to Africa, Asia, India and certain parts of Europe. All Land trips with high end travel companies and very small groups, usually just their friends, and/or their grown children. They charter yachts in the Caribbean with several friends for special occasions. Some have second homes. Most dine in high end restaurants and go to Broadway shows regularly. 

They are all professional, with busy work schedules and limited time for travel. 
We have convinced one son and his wife to join us on an upcoming Regent cruise.. I hope it sails so he can tell his friends how lovely it is. Time will tell. But they are really not interested in cruising to see the world, entertainment or fine dining. 
That’s just our kids, can’t speak for others. And, we have other children who work hard and do not have the same lifestyle. And, yes....they do go on fun cruises with their friends and kids. 
We are very fortunate to have all our wonderful kids.......🤞🙏👍


Sheila and Herb

Edited by Bellaggio Cruisers

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17 hours ago, pappy1022 said:

For those who want to cruise as soon as their ship sails, I say go for it. You are right in that anyone who cruises before COVID-19 is under reasonable control and/or an effective vaccine is available, assumes the risk associated with cruising. So if they get sick or die then that is the risk they are willing to take. If the worst outcome happens, hopefully they will die with a drink in their hands and a smile on their face. The bottom line is that people will be aware of the risk and willing to take it. I believe that the cruise lines will have good intentions and good protocols and practices in place to maximize a safe environment. I also believe, based on what I’m seeing every day on the news and in person, that some people will not follow the rules and will put others at increased risk. I don’t begrudge anyone from wanting to cruise ASAP. It is a wonderful way to relax, have fun and see the world. Personally, I will wait and see how things shake out and jump back in when I think the risk is reduced and worth it to me. I do appreciate the folks who want to be first in line to cruise because we need some people to test out the safety and quality of cruising because it will certainly be different then what we were accustomed to pre COVID.

People with COVID do not die with a drink in their hand and a smile on their face.

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You were quoting me and if you don't know I meant I would rather die doing something fun vs hiding at home then there is no point in continuing this discussion so let's not.

 

No one is taking about cruising tomorrow but when it opens in a year or so and a vaccine is required I will be there. I am not wasting my life hiding...risk is part of living.

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1 hour ago, ErwinSchrodinger said:

People with COVID do not die with a drink in their hand and a smile on their face.

 

Thank you.

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21 hours ago, 1982CruzStart said:

So are you saying that when cruising re-starts that people with compromised immune systems shouldn't be cruising even when if it is considered to be safe or just not cruising at the start until more assurance of safety? 

My DH has a compromised immune system and has been cruising for years. Will he be one of the first to re-board a cruise ship - no but we are certainly planning on being on one once again when it is relatively safe to do so. Nothing is ever 100%. 

 

If it was just about me, i am willing to risk my own life to live the way i want to live and that includes cruising. However it isn't about me risking my life it is about all the other people around me that i potentially could negatively impact with my decision. 

 

Stay safe and stay healthy everyone. 

I was referring specifically to this Corona Virus and the fact there is no known "cure" or vaccination, as of yet.  But, ultimately it is everyone's own personal decision as to when it is safe.

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18 hours ago, cerise638 said:

Yes "stuff happens". What's your degree of acceptance if that causes you to be locked down in your suite because there is an outbreak on board.  No cocktails, no fine dining just a limited room service menu.  Could be like that for weeks until you find a port which will allow you to disembark

 

Then when you do no government rescue just a cattle class charter flight home with others who may or may not be infected

 

Just one scenario that could happen. For me it's nothing to do with being risk averse. It's just that my scenario has a high likelihood at the moment.  Testing can only show you haven't got the virus today not tomorrow so someone will bring it on board.

 

 

This is what I means by stuff happens.  We had just finished up a Galapagos Islands cruise and were in a hotel in Ecuador when a big earthquake hit several years ago.  It was bad, the lobby looked like a bomb had gone off.  It took us 3 days to get home with a lot of frustration during that time.  We didn't plan for that, but it happened.  No, it wasn't fun.  But, I refuse to live my life by what could happen.  I would rather see the world.  I have no problem with others who are being cautious.  

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This discussion kind of reminds me of a pair of cruisers who we met about ten years ago on Voyager, I believe.  They were big Oceania cruisers, he a prolific poster to both CC boards back then.

 

They were booked on Oceania's first world cruise, and it got postponed because of damage to the ship, as I remember.  So they finally got off on their big adventure, and Don sadly, died somewhere on the other side of the Pacific, well into the trip.

 

Some said things like, "what a way to go!", or, "isn't it great that he died doing what he loved".  All well and good, but it wasn't good for his wife, was it?  She had to deal not only with her immediate grief, but had to disembark with tons of luggage and arrange the disposition of his body and get it home.  She also did not have the solace of her family around her.

 

Yes, we all want to die with our boots on and a small on our faces.  But being home would be a good thing, as I've said before.  That's my only point here.

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2 minutes ago, jjs217 said:

This is what I means by stuff happens.  We had just finished up a Galapagos Islands cruise and were in a hotel in Ecuador when a big earthquake hit several years ago.  It was bad, the lobby looked like a bomb had gone off.  It took us 3 days to get home with a lot of frustration during that time.  We didn't plan for that, but it happened.  No, it wasn't fun.  But, I refuse to live my life by what could happen.  I would rather see the world.  I have no problem with others who are being cautious.  

 

Agree 100%!

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