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Cause for cautious optimism?


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Keith, this is a Med-Cram post from yesterday. It is long, but life and death important.

We can end the pandemic with rapid at home testing, sooner than we can  with a future still-necessary vaccine. It is not in place of a vaccine.

I hope that fellow CC'ers do not respond with an opinion without watching this, and if skeptical check the credentials of the authors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo

 

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On 8/27/2020 at 12:14 PM, Jim9310 said:

A NEW CAUSE FOR CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM

abbott rapid coronavirus test card

 

 

There's a new coronavirus test that's the size of a credit card and doesn't require any lab equipment, and it could help the US get back to school and work

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/abbott-coronavirus-antigen-test-cost-availability-2020-8

 

Pat King:   THANKS, I AGREE WITH YOUR  ASSESSMENT.  Excellent video, although it is lengthy. 

I posted the above news  here in August.  The following article reports some progress on  Abbott's rapid test's use:

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/covid-19/everything-you-need-to-know-the-rapid-15-minute-covid-19-test-used-in-schools/

Edited by Jim9310
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21 hours ago, MsCrystalina said:

Operation Warp Speed is responsible for the incentives for the rapid unheard of production of the vaccine.  

In no way does  BIG PHARMA ever do anything out of the goodness in their heart-  it is always about 

profits!!!

And what company does things out of the goodness and not for profits? 

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9 hours ago, Pat King said:

Keith, this is a Med-Cram post from yesterday. It is long, but life and death important.

We can end the pandemic with rapid at home testing, sooner than we can  with a future still-necessary vaccine. It is not in place of a vaccine.

I hope that fellow CC'ers do not respond with an opinion without watching this, and if skeptical check the credentials of the authors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjphzlV5DYo

 

Pat thanks fir sharing.  I have watched it. 
 

Yes I think this type of testing is great. However I think we need a combination of testing like this and a vaccine for several reasons. One is that we can’t count on everyone to test and secondly when we travel we can’t count on all countries to adapt this

 

i think the two go hand in hand rather than one only INHO

 

Keith

 

 

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On 11/24/2020 at 4:37 PM, OceanPatter said:

Nice to see Keith in print!
Sorry if Keith’s interview in Condé Nast Traveler has already been discussed here.
150 voyages ... super wow. (Keith, it must have been so hard not to mention Crystal ...)

I just saw your post.  I haven't seen the article yet.  😀

 

Keith

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My guess is depending on what stage the world is in next year we might see travel companies and some countries requiring the vaccine before you can travel.  Not sure if this is much different than say a Yellow Fever Vaccination being required or you can't travel.  Then again not sure if a lot of thought has been given to this such as giving you a special card as they do with Yellow Fever.  If this is a consideration they better think now about this.  

 

As to forgeries I guess I never gave this thought.  I suppose someone could do that as they could forge a Yellow Fever Card but hopefully this would be the exception not the rule.  

 

I am greatly hoping the vaccine(s) work as the initial reports indicate.  In the never few weeks in the USA we will be entering a new phases and it is not going to be pretty.  I predict it will be ugly.  Each day I think about the health care workers and other first responders on the front lines for everyone and the risk they are taking.  Many are exhausted.  Some have died. Others have gotten the virus, survived it but some have issues from it.  Then there is fatigue and just like being in combat lots they are going through seeing so much death.  And this death is very different than many of them have seen.  Some people die within hours or a a few days of getting the virus.  For others it's a much longer time frame with a lot of issues.  And there are the families who can't be with their loved ones.  

 

Now we enter that dark period.  It was bad enough before the Thanksviing Holiday.  If some from outside he USA thought we were crazy in the states this has confirmed it.  So much travel in the middle of a Pandemic.  Then there will be some who will say I am so sorry.  I should have listened as they are sobbing because they will know loves ones who will shortly get the virus and some will die from it.  Maybe they will get the virus.

 

Anyway, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.  If the vaccine is successful.  It lots of people take it.  If on top of this we do make testing a lot easier, drive down the cost, improve its accuracy, do contact tracing and wear masks, social distance, wash hands often and thoroughly, put aside pleasure for a few months and be united we can be in a far better place sometime next summer in North America and in many places around the world.  The hanging fruit is out there.  I can see the light.  And when we all get back to what we love I believe at least at the beginning there will be a new appreciation and more will see the glass as half full.  And some who have been putting off plans until tomorrow will start to live a little more for today when it comes to things such as traveling.

 

I look forward to doing what we love and that is cruising with Crystal Cruises and seeing the world.  Keeping every finger and every toe crossed and listening to the experts and hoping 2021 will be a much better year than 2020.

 

Keith

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5 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

My guess is depending on what stage the world is in next year we might see travel companies and some countries requiring the vaccine before you can travel.  Not sure if this is much different than say a Yellow Fever Vaccination being required or you can't travel.  Then again not sure if a lot of thought has been given to this such as giving you a special card as they do with Yellow Fever.  If this is a consideration they better think now about this.  

 

As to forgeries I guess I never gave this thought.  I suppose someone could do that as they could forge a Yellow Fever Card but hopefully this would be the exception not the rule.  

I don't know if other states have competing systems but there is at least a potential way of checking.  Maryland and 4 other states (Arizona, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Washington) maintain an online data base of appropriate vaccinations.  I've attached a sanitized version of my record.  Surely, a way can be found to give travel providers to get access to this data base, most likely with permission being obtained through the appropriate online checkin system.  I'd like to see this become universal.  I know this information is also available to providers as I got a slightly different (and actually better ) formatted printout from my pharmacy.

 

Roy

publicvax.pdf

Edited by rafinmd
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1 hour ago, rafinmd said:

I don't know if other states have competing systems but there is at least a potential way of checking.  Maryland and 4 other states (Arizona, Louisiana, West Virginia, and Washington) maintain an online data base of appropriate vaccinations.  I've attached a sanitized version of my record.  Surely, a way can be found to give travel providers to get access to this data base, most likely with permission being obtained through the appropriate online checkin system.  I'd like to see this become universal.  I know this information is also available to providers as I got a slightly different (and actually better ) formatted printout from my pharmacy.

 

Roy

publicvax.pdf 204.7 kB · 8 downloads

I am not sure I understand properly. Are you suggesting that travel providers (airlines, travel agents, cruise lines, etc) have access to vaccine  records? 
Ivi

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Just now, travelberlin said:

I am not sure I understand properly. Are you suggesting that travel providers (airlines, travel agents, cruise lines, etc) have access to vaccine  records? 
Ivi

Not at this time but I can imagine that it could happen if the need arises.  Clearly would require some kind of permission but I think that's possible.

 

Roy

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40 minutes ago, rafinmd said:

Not at this time but I can imagine that it could happen if the need arises.  Clearly would require some kind of permission but I think that's possible.

 

Roy

Oh no. I do not think that this is possible or desirable in Europe. There is a very strong protection of personal information and it is good so. It is a completely different thing to provide as an individual information about yourself, and another to grant free access to your records to travel providers. Who knows who else would have access to that information through travel providers (willingly or not).

My opinion is that each person shall produce the certificate if this is required. I doubt it that many people will have the criminal energy to forge the certificate. 

We have heard that Qantas will ask for a proof of COVID vaccine for international travelers. I do not think that European airlines will follow. At the end it will depend of the entry requirements of each country. If Australia has the requirement, then people who wish to travel there, will have to comply. We shall see....

Ivi

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I am still carrying my yellow paper format "International Certificates of Vaccination as approved by the World Health Organization" circa 1971. I had a yellow fever shot and smallpox re-vaccination in 1978. When I added the Hep A Hep B Typhoid vaccinations in 2016 for a trip to Peru my provider did enter information on my yellow form in a page for 'other immunizations' and even has space for your eyeglass prescription. We just need an updated version of this. It is conveniently sized to fold and fit inside of your passport.

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3 minutes ago, mskatiemae said:

I am still carrying my yellow paper format "International Certificates of Vaccination as approved by the World Health Organization" circa 1971. I had a yellow fever shot and smallpox re-vaccination in 1978. When I added the Hep A Hep B Typhoid vaccinations in 2016 for a trip to Peru my provider did enter information on my yellow form in a page for 'other immunizations' and even has space for your eyeglass prescription. We just need an updated version of this. It is conveniently sized to fold and fit inside of your passport.

Yes, I also have that yellow certification. It registers all vaccines I have had in the last 30 years 😃. The last entries were vaccines against pneumococcus and against influenza this year.

Ivi

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I hope all airlines and countries follow the same protocols as Qantas has announced. I personally, don't want to get on an airline where it isn't mandatory to have had the vaccine and I would only want our international borders to be open to people who have been vaccinated and I personally would prefer travelling to countries that had the same requirement.

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2 hours ago, mskatiemae said:

We just need an updated version of this. It is conveniently sized to fold and fit inside of your passport.


I think you’ll find it will be an electronic document rather than paper - the Qantas CEO suggested that and said international airlines were discussing how that could be implemented 

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6 hours ago, rafinmd said:

I don't know if other states have competing systems but there is at least a potential way of checking.


Excellent - Australia already has a similar online record - which is currently optional for its’ citizens however I don’t believe it is available to others 

 

But given the info is held centrally there would be no reason that extracts of it couldn’t be made available subject to the appropriate authorisations and security 

 

I’m firmly in the no vaccination no entry camp 

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2 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:


I think you’ll find it will be an electronic document rather than paper - the Qantas CEO suggested that and said international airlines were discussing how that could be implemented 

Yes if it is through the airline only I can see it being electronic just like I gave my preferred airline my passport and trusted traveller info electronically. It is more challenging electronically with personal health info due to the strict privacy laws in the US and Europe, as travelberlin has pointed out above. To expedite travel I will use any format!

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On 11/26/2020 at 8:35 AM, ctjon said:

And what company does things out of the goodness and not for profits? 

I worked in "Big PHarma" for over 38 years and I continue to be sickened by the ignorance and hatred put out towards an industry that provides lifesaving meds to the world.

 

I did some rough calculations a while ago, thinking about just how many units of therapeutics and other essential medications that were produced by the production lines I managed and, later, the entire manufacturing facilities that my technical staff supported.  Over  the years, I estimate that we manufactured some 1.3TRILLION units of medication.

 

In all those years, the only thing we cared about was quality.  We all know that the next inspector might be one of our own family members.  In fact, when my daughter needed stitches after cracking her head open on the swings...she received Lidocaine that my exact production line had made some months before.

 

Nobody outside the industry recognizes the extreme cost of pharmaceutical equipment, facility engineering and all the technical work to prove "safe and effective"...all YOU see is the cost of the meds.  We see the weeks and months of overtime to make sure the production line is validated, working Saturday and Sunday while everyone else is at the beach.

 

So when I hear folks ***** about pharma I just smile and think back to times when we did whatever it took to make sure we had product for every patient, every time.

 

There are two sides to every piece of toast.  The buttered side always lands on the floor.

 

G.

 

 

 

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CDC guidelines for crew disembarkations in US ports were updated yesterday. Here is the link for those that may be interested.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/crew-disembarkations-commercial-travel.html

 

The last paragraph of the guidelines is a one sentence concise summary:

"What does it mean if a cruise line or cruise ship is not listed on the table above?

If a cruise line or cruise ship is not listed, it means it is not operating and does not plan to operate in U.S. waters during the initial phases of the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order."

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What happened to all the comments that were so interesting to read?

 

I will not be the first in line to take a vaccine.  I have no problem waiting, and not cruising or traveling on a plane for another year or so.  Then any adverse side effects, which may show up after 6-12 months, as well as knowing if it is still effective, will be known in those post vaccination months.

 

I am not an anti vaccine person by any stretch of the imagination.  My most recent vaccines were annual flu and the two part Shingles vaccine.  

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50 minutes ago, cruisr said:

What happened to all the comments that were so interesting to read?

 

I will not be the first in line to take a vaccine.  I have no problem waiting, and not cruising or traveling on a plane for another year or so.  Then any adverse side effects, which may show up after 6-12 months, as well as knowing if it is still effective, will be known in those post vaccination months.

 

I am not an anti vaccine person by any stretch of the imagination.  My most recent vaccines were annual flu and the two part Shingles vaccine.  

 

I think that's really well said.  I don't understand the politicization of someone's willingness to take these particular vaccines at all -- especially the MRNA vaccines like the Pfizer and Moderna candidates.

 

We have lots of great short-term data on these vaccines now, and we'll be gaining lots of great longer-term data as we go.  But MANY people are hesitant to jump on many types of medical treatments and procedures until there are mountains of data, and that doesn't have anything to do with someone's political affiliation or preferences.  Heck, many of my friends won't even buy a new car in the first model year, despite there being years of operational data from the manufacturer's pre-launch research -- and that's just a CAR.  Imagine how they feel about a vaccine that uses relatively new technology?

 

We've got a long road to inoculating the world, and it's going to take time regardless of how many people feel comfortable going first.  As long as lots of people are willing to go first -- and it sure seems that there are -- then I don't see a problem if some people want to hang back and see the longer term data before they jump in...  As long as they participate eventually (assuming the data proves itself out.)

 

Vince

[Happy to be a guinea pig in this case]

Edited by BWIVince
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4 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

I think that's really well said.  I don't understand the politicization of someone's willingness to take these particular vaccines at all -- especially the MRNA vaccines like the Pfizer and Moderna candidates.

 

We have lots of great short-term data on these vaccines now, and we'll be gaining lots of great longer-term data as we go.  But MANY people are hesitant to jump on many types of medical treatments and procedures until there are mountains of data, and that doesn't have anything to do with someone's political affiliation or preferences.  Heck, many of my friends won't even buy a new car in the first model year, despite there being years of operational data from the manufacturer's pre-launch research -- and that's just a CAR.  Imagine how they feel about a vaccine that uses relatively new technology?

 

We've got a long road to inoculating the world, and it's going to take time regardless of how many people feel comfortable going first.  As long as lots of people are willing to go first -- and it sure seems that there are -- then I don't see a problem if some people want to hang back and see the longer term data before they jump in...  As long as they participate eventually (assuming the data proves itself out.)

 

Vince

 

 

It appears that most "authorities" in various countries agree that  priority will go to some combination of front-line medical staff, first responders, residents of LTC homes, other front-line workers, and high risk groups. By the time they get through all of those priority groups there should be lots of "experiential" data on any/all of the vaccine candidates' performance. And of course, the "fun" will start when it comes to deciding who goes next. I suspect "people who want to go on a cruise" to be well down that next list!!!😁 

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26 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

 

It appears that most "authorities" in various countries agree that  priority will go to some combination of front-line medical staff, first responders, residents of LTC homes, other front-line workers, and high risk groups. By the time they get through all of those priority groups there should be lots of "experiential" data on any/all of the vaccine candidates' performance. And of course, the "fun" will start when it comes to deciding who goes next. I suspect "people who want to go on a cruise" to be well down that next list!!!😁 

 

Totally!  BTW, I forget the official pecking order -- does "Do you know who I am!?" come before or after "I really need a cruise"?  😀

 

Vince

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1 hour ago, BWIVince said:

 

Totally!  BTW, I forget the official pecking order -- does "Do you know who I am!?" come before or after "I really need a cruise"?  😀

 

Vince

 

And we need to fit "I want to speak to your Manager!" in there somewhere too!! I do, however, think we can all agree that "Politicians" will be at the end of the line! 😁

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There are times when privacy concerns have to yield to safety concerns.

We are dealing with a killer disease.  Did anyone watch 60 minutes regarding the Long Haulers?  There are people who have post Covid 19 symptoms that are worse then the disease itself -- and the medical profession is clueless as to why.  

If the government wants to put the fact that I have been vaccinated for Covid 19 into a database you will not hear a complaint from me.

We are not talking about putting your entire medical history or DNA profile out there for all to see.  It's a single piece of information which is need to protect everyone.

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