Jump to content

Cause for cautious optimism?


Recommended Posts

It really doesn't matter what word is used to describe the CDC requirements.  They are severe and I don't know how cruise lines who mainly sail the USA can make money. 

 

I think they have to find the proper balance to ensure health safety while giving the cruise lines a chance to make a profit.

 

The requirements are very stringent from the test cruises with no revenue to requirements for accommodations for crew.  

 

I think if they want to see a return to cruising the USA ports a more viable plan is needed.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Pat King said:

Keith, this MedCram video from a few hours ago talks about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine, and gives very hopeful news about it's use against variants and reduction in severe disease. 100% efficacy after 49 days for severe cases. Room temperature, one dose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13qT7wLxkvU

 

Pat, I agree.

 

Hopefully it will be approved for use in the USA icy the end of the month if the past approvals of Moderna and Pfizer are any indication of how this will work.  The meeting with the FDA is scheduled for February 26.  It will be great to have a third vaccine so more dosages will be available for people since demand right now far exceeds availability of vaccine.  Also, as you note one dosage and room temperature is a great benefit.

 

We have along way to go but this is something positive.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

There is already a third vaccine by Astra Zeneca  however there are doubts for using it to people above 65 ...In Belgium it was decided not to use it for that category - the same as Sweden did 

J and J is owning the Belgian branch Janssen Pharma and over the years the research by that company was always a great success in the medical history.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched the second of this weeks CCVID-19 briefings.


Very well done and Dr. Fauci spoke about the J&J vaccine including highlighting its results and their review this month.

 

Also the COVID-19 team covered what is being done to increase the availability of vaccine and people involved in getting vaccine into arms.

 

Lots more has to be done but they are certainly focused on hitting the key areas.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the current regulations both in the US and elsewhere are keeping the tourism industry from operating much, or at all.  You can call these regulations severe, harsh, or draconian, but I think it is problematic to use the these terms because they imply that the regulations are unjustly/unnecessarily severe.  Especially in regard to the term draconian, the word originated from a Greek law scribe that advocated for unreasonably harsh punishments for small offenses.

 

If you consider the current sets of regulations as “punishment,” and if you consider the language of the regulation to be unfairly/unfairly/unnecessarily severe, I guess you can call it draconian.

 

Personally, as long as the end result of the regulation serves its purpose (and no more than that), it is an effective regulation, not too harsh, not too soft.

 

I guess that assessment is more depending on what you perceive and believe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I have said several times - write to your members of Congress (US citizens) asking that they suspend the PVSA for at least 2021.  That will allow US only ports for the suspension period. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I think the current regulations both in the US and elsewhere are keeping the tourism industry from operating much, or at all.  You can call these regulations severe, harsh, or draconian, but I think it is problematic to use the these terms because they imply that the regulations are unjustly/unnecessarily severe.  Especially in regard to the term draconian, the word originated from a Greek law scribe that advocated for unreasonably harsh punishments for small offenses.

 

If you consider the current sets of regulations as “punishment,” and if you consider the language of the regulation to be unfairly/unfairly/unnecessarily severe, I guess you can call it draconian.

 

Personally, as long as the end result of the regulation serves its purpose (and no more than that), it is an effective regulation, not too harsh, not too soft.

 

I guess that assessment is more depending on what you perceive and believe.

 

I see this a bit differently.

 

I think if the goal is not to allow ships to sail then that is what they should say.

 

The idea they can sail and lose money based on the present regulations makes no sense to me.

 

In short, say they can't sail but don't have regulations so tough that only those who are willing to lose money would sail.

 

Personally my view is they should have a path to cruising for the time it could begin . This way cruise lines could be working on that but again it has to be something which allows them to make money.  To do this a task force comprised of scientists and members of the cruise lines could be formed to see what is possible but doing it cooperatively IMHO is the way to go.

 

Keith

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, ryndam said:

The Crystal website is still showing the Fall cruises to/from Quebec. Perhaps it is a small blessing they didn't have any Alaska itineraries this year. I used to work downtown and would go across the street to the terminal to see the Crystal ships when in town and dream of my next cruise, it was a lovely way to spend my lunch breaks.

 

Stay well, stay positive everyone.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, claudiaYVR said:

The Crystal website is still showing the Fall cruises to/from Quebec. Perhaps it is a small blessing they didn't have any Alaska itineraries this year. I used to work downtown and would go across the street to the terminal to see the Crystal ships when in town and dream of my next cruise, it was a lovely way to spend my lunch breaks.

 

Stay well, stay positive everyone.

Hard to stay positive when every morning seems to bring more bad news about problems with the vaccine supply. The PM's "every person who wants one will have it by September" is looking more and more like a pipe dream!

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Roland4 said:

Hard to stay positive when every morning seems to bring more bad news about problems with the vaccine supply. The PM's "every person who wants one will have it by September" is looking more and more like a pipe dream!

I know, but the option is not appealing 😞. Also, I'm between the glass half-full and the hopelessly optimistic kind.

 

As of today BC has administered less than 150,000 doses. If they don't ramp it up significantly and quickly the current vaccination plan is out the window. According to it my husband should be vaccinated in June/July and I in July/August. Right now I don't see it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect the CDC regulations are-what-they-are in part because of the situation in the US since the time they were last revised, and in part because of CLIA's reaction to where we were at that point in time.  I'm pretty sure as we get closer to a point where US-market departures become feasible, the regulations will get updated quickly and get a little more pragmatic, with a lot of input from CLIA on how to make them more serviceable. 

 

Since Keith mentioned them -- I'm loving these White House Covid Response Team news conferences every couple of days...  I've watched most of them since they started. They're brief, clear, specific, and having the actual people responsible speak to what's going on in their areas is extremely helpful.  Science and medicine being what it is, what's updated on Monday may change by Friday, but that's the world we live in.  At least we know where we stand on Monday, AND what's changed by Friday.  They also speak to what's working and what's not, and how they're trying to change what's not.  That kind of news is helpful to me.

 

Vince

 

Edited by BWIVince
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ctjon said:

As I have said several times - write to your members of Congress (US citizens) asking that they suspend the PVSA for at least 2021.  That will allow US only ports for the suspension period. 

I am all in favor of suspending the PVSA, but what point would there be for just 2021?  The cruise lines are not interested in meeting the CDC requirements to sail before November anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, claudiaYVR said:

I know, but the option is not appealing 😞. Also, I'm between the glass half-full and the hopelessly optimistic kind.

 

As of today BC has administered less than 150,000 doses. If they don't ramp it up significantly and quickly the current vaccination plan is out the window. According to it my husband should be vaccinated in June/July and I in July/August. Right now I don't see it.

I think of myself as a positive realist. I tend to look on the bright side, knowing that sometimes reality bites!😁

 

In terms of absolute numbers "here in the centre of the universe" (Ontario) they have administered about 350,000 doses, but with a population of over 14 million, that's only about 2.5% of the population. If they sort out the supply chain, and the AZ/J&J shots get approved sooner than later, and based on what the shot plan is they have published, we MIGHT get our shots May/June, but that is nothing but a "wild a**ed guess" on my part!

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Personally my view is they should have a path to cruising for the time it could begin. 

I think if anyone knew when that will be, then they could and would do that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

I think if anyone knew when that will be, then they could and would do that.

Time is irrelevant. You create the path of what needs to be done when cruising begins because when it begins we won’t be at a full norm. If we wait for that it could be years and businesses won’t survive. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Keith1010 said:

Time is irrelevant. You create the path of what needs to be done when cruising begins because when it begins we won’t be at a full norm. If we wait for that it could be years and businesses won’t survive. 

So, you’re advocating the creation of a route (road map) to an unknown place (time) with zero idea of the obstacles, circumstances, environment under which the trip will be undertaken?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

So, you’re advocating the creation of a route (road map) to an unknown place (time) with zero idea of the obstacles, circumstances, environment under which the trip will be undertaken?

I’ve done planning when nothing was certain but in a different discipline.  And we often didn’t have all the answers.so we planned for different scenarios.  You just  lay each one out.   
 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Keith1010 said:

I’ve done planning when nothing was certain but in a different discipline.  And we often didn’t have all the answers.so we planned for different scenarios.  You just  lay each one out.   
 

Keith

Fair enough, scenario planning with certain boundary conditions and reasonable assumptions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, SusieQft said:

I am all in favor of suspending the PVSA, but what point would there be for just 2021?  The cruise lines are not interested in meeting the CDC requirements to sail before November anyway.

 

I just read this interesting article concerning this possibility on Seatrade Cruise News.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/canada-says-no-technical-calls-passengers-pvsa-exemption-seen-unlikely

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ryndam said:

 

I just read this interesting article concerning this possibility on Seatrade Cruise News.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/canada-says-no-technical-calls-passengers-pvsa-exemption-seen-unlikely

 

I was reading that earlier, and I was a little surprised at Canada's immediate "no" without even studying impact.  If nothing else, this is a great way for them to grab some cash and recoup some lost port revenue without having to let any passengers ashore and potentially spread the virus.  IMHO, this is option would be a win-win for Canada, and is far preferable to messing with the PVSA (which I seriously doubt will happen).

 

That said, I think this debate is academic -- I doubt Alaska cruising would restart this summer for other reasons.

 

Vince

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

 

I see this a bit differently.

 

I think if the goal is not to allow ships to sail then that is what they should say.

 

The idea they can sail and lose money based on the present regulations makes no sense to me.

 

In short, say they can't sail but don't have regulations so tough that only those who are willing to lose money would sail.

 

Personally my view is they should have a path to cruising for the time it could begin . This way cruise lines could be working on that but again it has to be something which allows them to make money.  To do this a task force comprised of scientists and members of the cruise lines could be formed to see what is possible but doing it cooperatively IMHO is the way to go.

 

Keith

 

 

Well, right now, cruising involving most people from most parts of the world is considered a terrible idea by both CDC, WHO, and other organizations that advise various government agencies.  As Vince said, I'm sure these organizations will put out a statement on how we start allowing certain recreational activities to resume, when we know it is safe and reasonable to do so.  I think it is irrelevant whether the "path to cruising" is made difficult by the regulations or not AT THIS TIME, because there should be no cruising, except in very specific circumstances.  I don't think the current CDC regulations are not making cruises any more difficult, or that the regulations are increasing the daily cost of cruise lines' operation while they are not cruising.  All of the tourism sector is suffering because they cannot operate their business secondary to the outbreak.  I am not sure how any regulation can make their lives any more difficult at this point.

 

Of course if the regulations that we have continued beyond its necessity, we can call that excessive/harsh/draconian/unfair/etc.  But unfortunately, we have not gotten to that yet, and we have no idea when we will get there.

 

I don't think the cruise line people are stupid enough to even try to go through the hoops that they have to go through and actually do a real cruise, especially with people from high-incidence locales, and lose money in the process, so I don't think the regulations are really a burden to them at this point.

 

We all understand that many companies in the tourism segment of the economy have already ceased to exist, and many more will do the same before everything will be "back to normal."  But I think you are misdirecting your frustration if you think that the CDC regulation outlining how cruises CANNOT operate at this time because of the outbreak is the cause of their plight.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • SPECIAL EVENT: Q&A with Barbara Muckermann, CMO Silversea Cruises
      • ICYM Our Cruise Critic Live Special Event: Explore the Remote World with Hurtigruten!
      • Q&A with the Quark Expeditions Team: New Ship Ultramarine
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...