Jump to content

Cause for cautious optimism?


Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

So you would rather kill the economy rather than taking a chance that "maybe" another wave will occur?

I don't think its one or the other.  Germany did not kill its economy.  Australia and New Zealand did not kill its economy.  Japan did not kill its economy.  Perhaps it is time for US to start thinking about investing in a "rainy day fund" to be more prepared for events like this.  And if we don't contain this outbreak any better than this, the outbreak will certainly try to kill our economy.  And it has already to a certain extent.

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Psoque said:

If we keep on reopening as hospitalization/death rates start coming down again, it will most likely create a scenario for another wave.  It is true that most of the public will not understand this concept.  But the fact is that only way to know it is safer to reopen everything is to know the actual incidence of the disease, which we still don't know.

I agree.

 

I just watched Dr. Fauci.

 

They first spoke about the CDC Director saying at last weeks Covid update this is not the time to relax the rules.  She understands people want to get back to normal but insists we have to remain vigilant.

 

Dr. Fauci agrees and says the statistics show we have to stay the course.  He noted that while we had a nose dive of new cases we have plateau'd the last few days at I believe around 75K cases per day. He said look at last Spring when we plateau'd and loosened things up and things got worse.

 

This is me speaking.  Haven't we learned our lesson.  We see the virus increase.  We put in guidelines.  Eventually it goes down.  We then automatically release them.  It goes up and sometimes as we saw last year into this years gets a lot worse and we go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

 

We would do a lot better IMHO to stay the course knowing that we are five to six months from getting a lot of people fully vaccinated.  Or if we can't just relaxing a very small amount although i wish we would stay the course.  

 

Some states are going back to close to 100% occupancy in restaurants.  I believe New 

 

As Dr. Fauci says we ultimately wil pull back but we want to get the baseline level of new infections quite a bit lower than it is right now.  However, as he noted in addition to the levels we have now we have the variance in some places such as California and New York  which allows the virus to spread easier.

 

He also noted the CDC will be coming out in the next few weeks if not earlier what people who have been fully vaccinated can do.  They will be based on science, and modeling and where you can't use modeling they will use good common sense professionalism.  Makes sense to me.

 

I know it's hard but right now I wish we would stay the course.  

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

I agree.

 

I just watched Dr. Fauci.

 

They first spoke about the CDC Director saying at last weeks Covid update this is not the time to relax the rules.  She understands people want to get back to normal but insists we have to remain vigilant.

 

Dr. Fauci agrees and says the statistics show we have to stay the course.  He noted that while we had a nose dive of new cases we have plateau'd the last few days at I believe around 75K cases per day. He said look at last Spring when we plateau'd and loosened things up and things got worse.

 

This is me speaking.  Haven't we learned our lesson.  We see the virus increase.  We put in guidelines.  Eventually it goes down.  We then automatically release them.  It goes up and sometimes as we saw last year into this years gets a lot worse and we go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

 

We would do a lot better IMHO to stay the course knowing that we are five to six months from getting a lot of people fully vaccinated.  Or if we can't just relaxing a very small amount although i wish we would stay the course.  

 

Some states are going back to close to 100% occupancy in restaurants.  I believe New 

 

As Dr. Fauci says we ultimately wil pull back but we want to get the baseline level of new infections quite a bit lower than it is right now.  However, as he noted in addition to the levels we have now we have the variance in some places such as California and New York  which allows the virus to spread easier.

 

He also noted the CDC will be coming out in the next few weeks if not earlier what people who have been fully vaccinated can do.  They will be based on science, and modeling and where you can't use modeling they will use good common sense professionalism.  Makes sense to me.

 

I know it's hard but right now I wish we would stay the course.  

 

Keith

Yes, right now, many governments, especially the local governments in the US have allowed at least two additional waves to occur because of premature relaxing of restrictions, either because they thought "it was safe enough to do so," but not based on actual numbers, or "because they can no longer sustain it (economically)," meaning that the cost of restrictions was "too expensive" to save more lives...that's really telling of how much some of our governments think what our lives are really worth.

 

I believe it is Albert Einstein who said (and I paraphrase) "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result somehow."  I think, as far as our response to this outbreak is concerned, we have been acting in a very insane manner.

Edited by Psoque
typo fixed
Link to post
Share on other sites

Many years ago my Mother, who was a chain smoker was diagnosed with cancer.  She decided to go cold turkey and stopped smoking.  I ask her about her decision and she responded that since she now knows what cancer is like she doesn't want to spread it to others. My DW and I are fully vaccinated  and my response is the same. I will wear a mask.until advised by medical experts that I can't spread covid to others. It's not political, it's concern for others.

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, SusieQft said:

People pick and choose which Dr. Fauci recommendation they want to listen to.  Yes, we know a lot more about the virus now than we did when Dr. Fauci told us all that it was nothing to worry about.  Still, he has changed his position too often for many who do not agree with you that he is the primary person to follow. 

 

 

What I do not understand about Dr. Fauci telling us we do not need to wear masks early last year (although he knew it was a lie) he also told us we could take a cruise in March. How do both make any sense when it comes to the science? If you lied to the American public about the masks, were you also not telling the truth about the safety of cruises? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Also, as to Texas Governor Abbott.....be grateful you do not have Gov Cuomo. 

Dr. Fauci thinks Cuomo is a hero 😞

P.S. I always wear my mask and follow the guidelines.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

What I do not understand about Dr. Fauci telling us we do not need to wear masks early last year (although he knew it was a lie) he also told us we could take a cruise in March. How do both make any sense when it comes to the science? If you lied to the American public about the masks, were you also not telling the truth about the safety of cruises? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Also, as to Texas Governor Abbott.....be grateful you do not have Gov Cuomo. 

Dr. Fauci thinks Cuomo is a hero 😞

P.S. I always wear my mask and follow the guidelines.

 

 

I'm having trouble following you....  What's the supposed lie exactly?

 

Early in the pandemic, doctors (including my own) didn't think masks would be necessary because we didn't understand the extent of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission, or that it could be passed by aerosolized droplets and not just larger ones, or how effective the virus was transmitting through droplets.  All four of those insights became clear at different points, which all moved the urgency that people be masked, since we learned the virus was not only more transmissible than we thought, but also we had no idea who was infected since many/most people were infectious before they felt it (if they ever did).

 

Vince

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

I'm having trouble following you....  What's the supposed lie exactly?

 

Early in the pandemic, doctors (including my own) didn't think masks would be necessary because we didn't understand the extent of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission, or that it could be passed by aerosolized droplets and not just larger ones, or how effective the virus was transmitting through droplets.  All four of those insights became clear at different points, which all moved the urgency that people be masked, since we learned the virus was not only more transmissible than we thought, but also we had no idea who was infected since many/most people were infectious before they felt it (if they ever did).

 

Vince

From Reuters:

In the clip, Dr Fauci says “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

Fauci made this comment on an interview with 60 Minutes on March 8, during the early stages of the novel coronavirus outbreak in the United States. A longer extract of the interview is visible  youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI  (see 30-second mark).   

The interview predates the CDC’s updated guidance on the use of face coverings. On April 3, 2020, the CDC updated its previous advice and recommended people wear cloth face coverings “in public settings when around people outside their household, especially when social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TrulyBlonde said:

From Reuters:

In the clip, Dr Fauci says “There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

Fauci made this comment on an interview with 60 Minutes on March 8, during the early stages of the novel coronavirus outbreak in the United States. A longer extract of the interview is visible  youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI  (see 30-second mark).   

The interview predates the CDC’s updated guidance on the use of face coverings. On April 3, 2020, the CDC updated its previous advice and recommended people wear cloth face coverings “in public settings when around people outside their household, especially when social distancing measures are difficult to maintain.”

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm referring to.  There was a lot we didn't know last March.  Here's a JAMA article from Feb 21, 2020 showing how little we knew about asymptomatic transmission around the time of Dr. Fauci's quote:  Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission of COVID-19 | Infectious Diseases | JAMA | JAMA Network

 

IN FACT, this article in the Journal of Medical Virology cites Chinese authorities starting to release asymptomatic statistics on March 31, 2020:  Asymptomatic cases with SARS‐CoV‐2 infection - Wang - 2020 - Journal of Medical Virology - Wiley Online Library  This shows that pivot happening after Dr. Fauci's comment and before the CDC's guidance changing, considering the importance of masks to control asymptomatic transmission.

 

My state mandated masks in April, after the CDC guidance initially changed, but it wasn't until May that we started getting a clearer picture of aerosolized transmission.  (Consideration of the Aerosol Transmission for COVID-19 and Public Health - PubMed (nih.gov))  Even with that information coming into focus, there were still states in May that didn't have a mask mandate in place.

 

Based on this timeline I don't see a "lie" -- I see findings that evolved guidance around masks.

 

Vince

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BWIVince said:

 

 

 

 

Based on this timeline I don't see a "lie" -- I see findings that evolved guidance around masks.

 

Vince

We won't agree. I am just grateful I did not take that March cruise Fauci approved, I wish Fauci had told the truth about masks needed for PPE vs saying we do not need to wear one, and grateful I had no family in NY nursing homes. How many lives could have been saved if we were told the truth. This also could be a reason there are so many that refuse to follow the rules the CDC and Fauci recommend. Politics and Science do not mix well. Stay well and safe Vince.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the beginning the advice was, we don't know if masks work, so don't wear one.  Now the advice is, we don't know how well the vaccine or natural immunity works, so don't relax any precautions just because you have had the vaccine or have recovered from infection.

 

IMO, both of these are too extreme.  In the beginning we should have been more cautious.  There was a reluctance to face the facts and take action that was needed.  Now, IMO, we have overcompensated for that.  We need sensible guidelines very soon that allow more freedom to people who have been vaccinated.  I am not saying totally back to normal, just a little more freedom than now.  I want to visit my mother, for example, after we are both fully vaccinated.  So far, the rules still severely restrict that.  Why?  We are going to need to convince those reluctant to get the vaccine to get it.  They will very sensibly ask why they should take what they perceive to be a risk with no benefit.

 

The pundits often seem to assume that the public is stupid and this leads them to give incomplete or misleading information.  Like don't wear a mask, for example.  I knew at the time that that was bad advice.  They should have been more honest and said it was because supplies were limited instead of the nonsense about it is too dangerous to wear a mask because the general public won't do it properly.  A significant percentage of people still do not do it properly, but they don't use that as an excuse for people not to wear one any more.

 

If they would just make it clear that you do have to wait some number of weeks after your vaccination is completed, they could have a different list of things that are no longer forbidden.  Things are starting to move in this direction, but IMO it could move a little faster.  Certainly it needs to move by the time that all the people eager for the vaccine are able to get it, because then we will have to start convincing the reluctant.

 

I always wear a mask in public, and I am extremely irritated when I am near others who don't, or don't cover their nose with the mask, or use masks with valves.  I am very pro-mask and pro-vaccine, even though neither one is much fun.  I will continue to wear a mask after I am fully vaccinated, at least until the pundits say otherwise and probably even longer when I am in crowded situations.  But I think businesses should be allowed to open with precautions.  The guidelines for which businesses can be open and which cannot do not seem to be very fair to small businesses.  There are plenty of crowds in the big box stores and grocery stores with less social distancing than many small businesses could achieve. 

 

Cruising is a little different from other businesses, even other transportation businesses, and I just hope that the industry can hold out long enough for it to be safe and allowed.  Cruising is never 100% safe, just like everything else in life.  When will we know it is safe enough?  After it is allowed and cruises are sailing successfully.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

We won't agree. I am just grateful I did not take that March cruise Fauci approved, I wish Fauci had told the truth about masks needed for PPE vs saying we do not need to wear one, and grateful I had no family in NY nursing homes. How many lives could have been saved if we were told the truth. This also could be a reason there are so many that refuse to follow the rules the CDC and Fauci recommend. Politics and Science do not mix well. .

Although I think Fauci has generally provided proper guidance once the pandemic got underway, I agree that he was unprofessional during the early stage.

 

My Crystal Symphony “cruise to nowhere” disembarked in Singapore on Feb 15, 2020.   Singapore’s pragmatic government had begun free distribution of four face masks to each household on Jan 30.  Crystal also issued a mask to each passenger.  I wore mine en route home. 

 

Singapore had also begun to track exposed individuals and remotely check body temperatures at many locations.  Although masks weren’t mandatory, a majority were wearing them. [Today, SG’s cumulative COVID-19 death rate per million is 5, which is comparable to New Zealand.  Our rate is 1,582.]

 

When I arrived home, I discovered there were no coronavirus precautions, so my mask came off upon arrival. 

 

In early March, our government leaders were still minimizing the threat of a pandemic.  Fauci followed suit and trivialized basic precautions such as masks. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also find something else quite interesting. Opening schools for the children. My Grandson, age 9, attends a private Christian school in S. California. He has been in school since September and the only difference is that they have plexiglass, wear their masks, follow guidelines etc. All is good.

However, his friends that are in public school, same area, have been home doing Zoom education. HIs one friend, is only 9 and now battling depression 😞  How sad that one child can be in school as "normal"as can be and the other cannot even attend school? Makes no sense to me!  This is only an example of the tragedy that these children will endure due to no consistency with certain states and our leaders. Tragic.

Also, my Grandson had to miss his annual Disney cruise with his Gramie last year and now this year 😞

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I will stay away from the politics and urge others to do the same.

 

I will comment though on masks.

 

No one lied.  As Vince mentioned the science evolved as it always do.  The virus like most viruses was unique and science learned about it.  This is nothing new.  So yes recommendations were revised when we learned more.  And yes there are times mistakes are made.  Not intentionally.  Not to lie.  But we learned and adjustments were made.  We are still learning.

 

For example when it was determined masks should be worn the benefit was that if you were sick it would help reduce (not 100%) the spread of germs.  As more research was done this has been amended because of research which showed there is also some (not 100%) benefit to the mask protecting you from getting some of the germs from others.  In short wearing a mask, wearing the correct one, and wearing it correctly, provides benefits to all of us but the key is for everyone to wear the mask when you are indoors and when you are outside and can't social distance.

 

Further, they have consistently said to social distance and to wash hands often and thoroughly.  This has been a consistent message from Dr. Fauci and from the CDC.

 

Making mistakes is not lying.  We all make mistakes and I suspect it wasn't a lie but a mistake.  I have never met anyone who hasn't made mistakes and that is in both personal life and their profession.

 

Since this is a cruising board each time a cruise lines makes a mistake does that equate to a lie?  I think not.

 

We are fortunate to have some of the greatest scientists in the world in the USA and that the rest of the world and that the world has many great scientists.  We are also fortunate that the companies making the vaccine and for the technology that exists today.  In years past the technology didn't allow for the creation of a vaccine for COVID and we not only have several vaccines available but they are providing efficacy rates much higher than expected.  On top of this because of technology they can mass produce so much more vaccine than they could have just a few years ago.  The future will be even brighter.

 

Now whether you like Dr Fauci and respect him as I do, or you think he lies, or you don't like him really is irrelevant.

 

What I think is relevant is getting the vaccine when it is available unless someone has a medical reason not to, having cruise lines such as Crystal requiring vaccination as they are doing, and doing all those things which science has recommended which in the USA is wearing a mask (the right kind and properly) social distancing and washing hands often and thoroughly and avoiding indoor social gatherings etc.

 

In a few weeks the CDC wil be coming out with revised guidelines for those who have been fully vaccinated which I think is an important step in the transitionary process of getting back to a norm.

 

I also think it will apply to cruising and wil be a positive step in the process.

 

I look forward to being able to sail with Crystal again and with each passing day I am feeling more optimistic.

 

I look forward to that flute of Champagne and the Cobb Salad and sailing the world, seeing our extended Crystal Family, the cuisine, the drink the lectures, the entertainment and yes the fitness center and paddle tennis and the pure joy of stepping onto ta Crystal Vessel.

 

Adversary provides some positives and I know for me it will be appreciating things like cruising which I always did but even more than ever.

 

Keith

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

and the pure joy of stepping onto ta Crystal Vessel.

Yes, that is exactly it. Thanks for putting it so well. I have given up trying to describe how I feel on that gangplank, and hearing the ping of the check in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although we’d all like to politics is involved in the US even on medical issues 

also knowledge and thus advise changes. 
I’d rather be safe than sorry 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, crickette said:

How did you each react to the second dose?

 

Overall very good.

 

Like the first one we each had sore arms and more noticeable when you raise them.  Right now we just have very slight soreness only noticed if we lift our arm all the way up to the ceiling and I am sure by tomorrow there will be none.   I think the first time we were still feeling sore at this point. 

 

The day after the second dose we each had some aches and that was gone by the following day and on the day after the vaccine I had some chills for a little while on two different occasions but that went away for good a couple of hours later.    Finally, I had a three inch red circle (rash with no bumps) around the area of the vaccination and Anne Marie had none.  I remember this happening to me with another vaccination; possibly a flu vaccine either last year or the year before.  Today I have a very slight red area barely noticeable. 

 

From what I've read having a reaction is actually a very good sign.

 

And everyone reacts differently from no reaction to something similar to what we had to much more of a reaction but even with a worse reaction those tend to be gone in 24 hours.


The other thing I've learned is some people get reactions the evening of the vaccination while others don't get it until sometime the next day.

 

Some people feel weak and have to rest the evening and/or day after the vaccine.  I went out on a walk for awhile the next day and just felt the aches by the time I returned home.    When I had the chills I thought about getting into bed to warm up but I ended up not doing that.

 

I would say in the scheme of things I was bothered more from the second of two doses of the shingles vaccine (Shingrix) than this one.  I was just thrilled to get the COVID-19 vaccine and have this behind us. Due to the weather situation here our second dose was rescheduled four times and we ended up getting it 8 days later than originally planned but within the CDC guidelines.

 

Keith

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was watching a travel vlogger who was talking about the NCL holdings analysts call with Frank Del Rio.  While he was only speaking of NCL holdings he was saying when they start back up not all ships will start at the same time and that their q3 bookings are so strong they don’t need to take any more.  He also said that there would be cuts in occupancy.

 

If this formula would apply to Crystal could that mean just one vessel starting up and at 50% capacity?   I wonder how financially viable that would be.

 

On another note I just returned from a 5 night resort stay in MD.  MD is less than 2.5 positivity rate.  I witnessed 100% mask usage everywhere I went.  For those of us who were wondering about the future of buffets, the resort had a Sunday brunch buffet.  People were 6 feet apart and you told the various servers what you want.  The orders for the made to order omelets were taken at the table.  So, Lido buffets may have a future.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cruisr said:

I was watching a travel vlogger who was talking about the NCL holdings analysts call with Frank Del Rio.  While he was only speaking of NCL holdings he was saying when they start back up not all ships will start at the same time and that their q3 bookings are so strong they don’t need to take any more.  He also said that there would be cuts in occupancy.

 

If this formula would apply to Crystal could that mean just one vessel starting up and at 50% capacity?   I wonder how financially viable that would be.

 

On another note I just returned from a 5 night resort stay in MD.  MD is less than 2.5 positivity rate.  I witnessed 100% mask usage everywhere I went.  For those of us who were wondering about the future of buffets, the resort had a Sunday brunch buffet.  People were 6 feet apart and you told the various servers what you want.  The orders for the made to order omelets were taken at the table.  So, Lido buffets may have a future.

 We live in an area where most everyone is mask compliant, as are we. We both have received both vaccine doses. We have several cruises scheduled for 2022. One is a Crystal river cruise. However if masks are going to be required in public areas on the ship/ boat we will not cruise. For us, it ruins the enjoyment of the vacation. We took our first plane flight since Covid a few days ago. It was a 6 plus hour transcontinental to see our daughter and grandkids for first time in a year. Seven hours wearing a mask in a 767 even with middle seats blocked (on Delta) felt very confining and unpleasant. Worth it to see family, but travel for fun on a cruise or at a beach resort with masks required is not for us. Likely we will decide to postpone our 2022 cruise plans, as I think masks will be required until 2023. JMHO.

Ed

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, edgee said:

 We live in an area where most everyone is mask compliant, as are we. We both have received both vaccine doses. We have several cruises scheduled for 2022. One is a Crystal river cruise. However if masks are going to be required in public areas on the ship/ boat we will not cruise. For us, it ruins the enjoyment of the vacation. We took our first plane flight since Covid a few days ago. It was a 6 plus hour transcontinental to see our daughter and grandkids for first time in a year. Seven hours wearing a mask in a 767 even with middle seats blocked (on Delta) felt very confining and unpleasant. Worth it to see family, but travel for fun on a cruise or at a beach resort with masks required is not for us. Likely we will decide to postpone our 2022 cruise plans, as I think masks will be required until 2023. JMHO.

Ed

I have no problem wearing a mask on a ship.  We have quite a collection.  If it's a choice between cruising or not, we will be happy to wear masks.  I do not see how it detracts from enjoyment (except if you have to wear it while eating  LOL)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, bitob said:

I have no problem wearing a mask on a ship.  We have quite a collection.  If it's a choice between cruising or not, we will be happy to wear masks.  I do not see how it detracts from enjoyment (except if you have to wear it while eating  LOL)


I agree with you 100%. Well, I don’t have much of a collection. I wear the lightweight medical one, with a Bucs mask, very attractive red!, over it. Sometimes people can’t understand what I’m saying, so I remove the outer one briefly.

Edited by May B
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

 

I look forward to that flute of Champagne and the Cobb Salad and sailing the world....

 

Keith

 

 

Oh, yes, that flute of Champagne and the Cobb Salad and the excitement of embarkment day!:classic_smile:  I just have to dream a little bit longer!

 

Carole

Edited by caroak
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, caroak said:

Oh, yes, that flute of Champagne and the Cobb Salad and the excitement of embarkment day!:classic_smile:  I just have to dream a little bit longer!

 

Carole

Ok I’m POSITIVE someone here has a photo of that embarkation day Cobb salad. So give it! 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cruise-y said:

Ok I’m POSITIVE someone here has a photo of that embarkation day Cobb salad. So give it! 

I do! Not the greatest photo, I had to cut people out of the picture but it's something!

 

 

salad.jpg

Edited by suzeluvscruz
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • SPECIAL EVENT: Q&A with Barbara Muckermann, CMO Silversea Cruises
      • ICYM Our Cruise Critic Live Special Event: Explore the Remote World with Hurtigruten!
      • Q&A with the Quark Expeditions Team: New Ship Ultramarine
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...