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Cause for cautious optimism?


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26 minutes ago, vistaman said:

I was far from happy Crystal went "all inclusive" years ago but that was in those days an issue for past SB and SS clients    not willing to book Crystal - especially for SB clienst in my country the free drinks were extremely important  - what I had to witness quite often . 

What do SB and SS stand for?

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11 hours ago, mskatiemae said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/one-positive-covid-19-test-japan-luxury-cruise-ship-passengers-disembarking-2021-04-30/

 

A dose of caution (usually I am on the optimism side)...this is a reminder to take all precautions! 

While being vaccinated does not prevent one from getting COVID-19 I would keep in mind  only 1.1% (or thereabouts) of the Japanese population has been fully vaccinated.  

 

Keith

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16 hours ago, mskatiemae said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/one-positive-covid-19-test-japan-luxury-cruise-ship-passengers-disembarking-2021-04-30/

 

A dose of caution (usually I am on the optimism side)...this is a reminder to take all precautions! 

Because of a passenger testing positive the whole cruise is being interrupted? This is what it should not happen again. In other cruises there have also been passengers who tested positive, however a good management of the cruiselines, has ensured that only those passengers and their contacts had to interrupt their cruise. The other passengers could continue.

 

I keep insisting that Crystal should inform us how they are going to proceed if someone tests positive onboard. I do not think that we could assume that no one at a Crystal cruise would test positive. I would not like to go back to the port and have the cruise interrupted only because other passenger or crew member testet positive. Too much money and effort involved to join a Crystal cruise to end up having to disembark and go back to a port, which is not even close to home.
 

One of the reasons why I took a cruise to the Canary Islands in Covid time, was because the ship had already sailed many times, and after there was COVID on board on some of those cruises, the management of the situation was very reassuring. The lesson learned was, that if one was careful enough to avoid being positive (by the way also vaccinated can test positive if infected) then you were OK. 
Ivi

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37 minutes ago, mskatiemae said:

Thanks Keith! Good point on the lower  vaccination rate in Japan. It was for me important to remind folks there are breakthrough cases in the U.S. despite our great vaccines: 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/the-shock-and-reality-of-catching-covid-after-being-vaccinated

You are welcome.

 

The good news is if one is fully vaccinated and gets the virus it is unlikely they will get sick or end up in the hospital but as has been noted in some cases people have gotten sick.

 

Scientists continue to study this.  I am sure there is more to it such as did those who get sick get the original strain or a variant and scientists are still learning whether or not if you are vaccinated, get the virus, can you spread it even with no symptoms. 

 

Unfortunately most vaccines are not 100% effective as we know from the Flu or other things such as Shingles.

 

This is one of the reasons why even though many are getting vaccinated there are still many protocols to follow on land and also when traveling including cruising.

 

Keith

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1 hour ago, Keith1010 said:

You are welcome.

 

The good news is if one is fully vaccinated and gets the virus it is unlikely they will get sick or end up in the hospital but as has been noted in some cases people have gotten sick.

 

Scientists continue to study this.  I am sure there is more to it such as did those who get sick get the original strain or a variant and scientists are still learning whether or not if you are vaccinated, get the virus, can you spread it even with no symptoms. 

 

Unfortunately most vaccines are not 100% effective as we know from the Flu or other things such as Shingles.

 

This is one of the reasons why even though many are getting vaccinated there are still many protocols to follow on land and also when traveling including cruising.

 

Keith

And this is why it is so important everyone get vaccinated. Only when we're all vaccinated across the world, can we stamp out this virus. 

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3 minutes ago, AtA said:

And this is why it is so important everyone get vaccinated. Only when we're all vaccinated across the world, can we stamp out this virus. 

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.  😀

 

Keith

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14 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.  😀

 

Keith

Our public statistics office have just published data stating that of our recent 72K hospital admissions only 1% had NOT been vaccinated. IMHO positive test results are not the key indicator , rather hospital admissions. This data says it all, especially as the majority of UK adults had only received their first vaccine in relation to this data set.

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16 minutes ago, kool kruiser said:

Our public statistics office have just published data stating that of our recent 72K hospital admissions only 1% had NOT been vaccinated. IMHO positive test results are not the key indicator , rather hospital admissions. This data says it all, especially as the majority of UK adults had only received their first vaccine in relation to this data set.

I am trying but am not following what you said.

 

Are you saying almost all of the hospital visits are from those vaccinated?

 

When you say visit is that hospitalizations or people getting tested?

 

And are these people who just had one vaccine and have not been fully vaccinated or are they fully vaccinated?  What is the breakdown?

 

This is not what we are seeing in the USA.  Then again I believe we are using different vaccines from you and you 

 

In the USA 56% of our population 18 & above have been vaccinated with 40% of this age group fully vaccinated.  I believe in the UK while 51% have been vaccinated only 22% are fully vaccinated.

 

As i mentioned earlier, Scientists don't have all the answers on this and are learning as we go and that includes if those fully vaccinated can spread the virus to others.  

 

I suspect the number and type of variants and to the complexities of studying all of this.

 

Keith

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3 hours ago, kool kruiser said:

Our public statistics office have just published data stating that of our recent 72K hospital admissions only 1% had NOT been vaccinated. IMHO positive test results are not the key indicator , rather hospital admissions. This data says it all, especially as the majority of UK adults had only received their first vaccine in relation to this data set.

I think you might be misquoting a preliminary announcement from the UK saying that, out of 52,000 people hospitalized for COVID-19, only 526 of them were those who received at least one dose of either the AstraZeneca or Pfizer vaccine.  I don’t have the original paper to read (since this announcement was made before the paper was peer-reviewed and published) but the press release suggests that the incidence of hospitalizations is lower among those who are even partially vaccinated.

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21 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Because of a passenger testing positive the whole cruise is being interrupted? This is what it should not happen again. In other cruises there have also been passengers who tested positive, however a good management of the cruiselines, has ensured that only those passengers and their contacts had to interrupt their cruise. The other passengers could continue.

 

I keep insisting that Crystal should inform us how they are going to proceed if someone tests positive onboard. I do not think that we could assume that no one at a Crystal cruise would test positive. I would not like to go back to the port and have the cruise interrupted only because other passenger or crew member testet positive. Too much money and effort involved to join a Crystal cruise to end up having to disembark and go back to a port, which is not even close to home.
 

One of the reasons why I took a cruise to the Canary Islands in Covid time, was because the ship had already sailed many times, and after there was COVID on board on some of those cruises, the management of the situation was very reassuring. The lesson learned was, that if one was careful enough to avoid being positive (by the way also vaccinated can test positive if infected) then you were OK. 
Ivi

I would suspect that no only all on ship be quarantined (how do you know contacts in elevators or halls etc.) but many home countries would not you back in until a quarantine period.   As bad as that might seem I think it is correct 

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1 hour ago, jollyjones said:

I think Kool Kruiser maybe has it slightly confused? Easy enough to do in the welter of statistics being thrown at us.

 

This is probably what he refers to:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56933756

 

 

Right.  I think instead of saying the majority fo the cases were those who were vaccinated it would be the majority of the cases are of those who are not vaccinated.

 

Keith

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ctjon said:

I would suspect that no only all on ship be quarantined (how do you know contacts in elevators or halls etc.) but many home countries would not you back in until a quarantine period.   As bad as that might seem I think it is correct 

It was not difficult to find out who had contact with whom on a ship or on excursions because the cabin numbers were registered. Contacts on elevators or halls of course cannot be registered but everybody wears a mask on those situations, so the risk seems to be lower.

To put the whole ship on quarantine seems to be a killer for the industry. How many passengers are prepared to take that risk?

Ivi

Edited by travelberlin
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I think we all need to keep in mind Crystal has set up separate areas on each ship so if someone did test positive for COVID-19 they would be placed in the quarantine area.  I do not expect the cruise to stop with one or a handful of people having COVID-19.  I think we should keep in mind NYK has always been on the very very very cautious side and given that only 1% or so of the Japanese population has been vaccinated that was probably a concern and they probably are thinking of the Princess situation last March.  

 

The reality is there is risk both both at home and the risk increases when one travels either for business, for pleasure and both domestic and internationally so people need to realize this.  There is no guarantee but being vaccinated does increase the odds that you may not get COVID-19 or if you do you might not have any symptoms and if you do very little chance of becoming very sick or being hospitalized or dying.  Very few things in life are 100% certain.  

 

The important thing is to try to plan for every possibility but to realize that COVID-19 has taken some twists and turns along the way.


Keith

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21 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.  😀

 

Keith

Unfortunately it is not going to happen. I have just read that it is very unlikely that USA will achieve herd immunity despite the high numbers of vaccinated persons. I guess in other countries is similar. The message is, we will have to live with COVID but for those vaccinated the disease will not be that dangerous anymore.

Good news in Germany, almost 30% have received the first dose and about 8% both. Things are improving.

Ivi

 

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The question was raised earlier about where the highlighted “isolation ward” would exist on the ocean ships, since the medical center proper is too small to contain it.  I was thinking this morning (for the first time in a while haha)…. 
 

On Symphony, what if you closed the fire doors on the port side of deck 5, and isolated the cabins between the forward elevator lobby and the Crystal Plaza?  You wouldn’t want to use starboard (at least at first) because it would block off the medical center access for everyone else, but everything on the port side is redundant with the other side and the staff can access the front office and hotel offices through the starboard side.  You could use other parts of the ship as needed for additional beds, but this seems like a logical first place to start that’s both convenient for the medical staff and can be closed off without passenger disruption.  Of course the fire doors wouldn’t be closed until this emergency contingency was activated.  Just a thought…

 

Vince

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13 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

The question was raised earlier about where the highlighted “isolation ward” would exist on the ocean ships, since the medical center proper is too small to contain it.  I was thinking this morning (for the first time in a while haha)…. 
 

On Symphony, what if you closed the fire doors on the port side of deck 5, and isolated the cabins between the forward elevator lobby and the Crystal Plaza?  You wouldn’t want to use starboard (at least at first) because it would block off the medical center access for everyone else, but everything on the port side is redundant with the other side and the staff can access the front office and hotel offices through the starboard side.  You could use other parts of the ship as needed for additional beds, but this seems like a logical first place to start that’s both convenient for the medical staff and can be closed off without passenger disruption.  Of course the fire doors wouldn’t be closed until this emergency contingency was activated.  Just a thought…

 

Vince

My read of Crystal's published use for those staterooms used for quarantine is that the HVAC was to be setup in a way that the hallways would not share any air with quarantiner's staterooms.

 

Perhaps I am too optimistic?

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26 minutes ago, mskatiemae said:

My read of Crystal's published use for those staterooms used for quarantine is that the HVAC was to be setup in a way that the hallways would not share any air with quarantiner's staterooms.

 

Perhaps I am too optimistic?

Here is the Crystal Clean+ 4.1 text

Fresh-Air Ventilation Systems

FRESH-AIR

Crystal's ocean fleet features 100% fresh, non-recirculated air in every single guest suite, stateroom and social space. A cluster of guest staterooms and an adjacent corridor are set aside for isolation in the event of illness with a separate ventilation system.

  • All air filters and cooling coils are frequently checked and maintained to ensure the highest standard of air quality possible
  • A cluster of guest staterooms and an adjacent corridor are set aside for isolation in the event of illness; the ventilation of these staterooms has been arranged so there is no ventilation connection between the staterooms and/or the corridor; separate ducting leads the air directly to an appropriate exhaust duct
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