Will Cunard want proof of vaccination to board and how would you show it?

[ace2542]

I think they will but I am wonder how it would be enforced. We are based in UK  and due to doctor patient confidentiality and european GDPR regulations it is highly unlikely Cunard would be able or even have the time to confirm vaccination with our GP or family doctor in American money.

 

Do you think they will insist on a blood test or anti body test because I am not sure how I feel about that.

[bluemarble]

If proof of vaccination were to be required in the future, my guess is that would be handled the same as other vaccinations (such as yellow fever vaccinations required for some countries). That's done via the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP). Sometimes called the "Yellow Card" or "Carte Jaune".

Edited August 8, 2020 by bluemarble

[Tapi]

I carry my "yellow card" as proof of vaccination.

 

My next comment concerns testing, but I'm guessing that something similar could be applied to proof of vaccination. Recently, we traveled to a destination that required proof of a covid test within 72 hours of arrival. At the testing facility, we were given a paper copy of the test results. We then went online and filled out the required declaration where we had to fill out the name and number of the facility where the test was performed. We were also required to submit a screenshot (or scan) of the paper results. We were then given a confirmation number with a QR code which we presented at the airport upon arrival. 

 

It was a very easy and quick process. Upon landing at our destination, we presented the QR code to a representative as we exited baggage claim which they scanned, and we went on our way. It took all of 30 seconds. The line for people who hadn't followed the proper protocol was insanely long. 

 

I'm guessing that the cruise lines could incorporate a similar online process to include proof of testing or vaccination. 

 

 

[bluemarble]

6 minutes ago, Tapi said:

... I'm guessing that the cruise lines could incorporate a similar online process to include proof of testing or vaccination.

 

Excellent point, Tapi. Much of the "new normal" is likely to depend on online processes. I can't really see the check-in process at the terminal involving the manual review of "yellow cards" from everyone to verify COVID vaccinations.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, bluemarble said:

If proof of vaccination were to be required in the future, my guess is that would be handled the same as other vaccinations (such as yellow fever vaccinations required for some countries). That's done via the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP). Sometimes called the "Yellow Card" or "Carte Jaune".

How long would it take to get the yellow card from a UK family doctor we call them GP's and how much would it cost to get?

Edited August 8, 2020 by ace2542

[showingdiva]

1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

How long would it take to get the yellow card from a UK family doctor we call them GP's and how much would it cost to get?

 

The yellow card scheme within the NHS in the UK is only for the general reporting of drug interaction, allergies, adverse reactions etc.   If you need proof of anything medical in the UK, you can either request a copy of that part of your medical records or a letter from your GP (both of which there will be a charge, which varies from 50p per photocopy to £20 for a vaccination report (current charges)).

 

However, Covid19 has thrown up a whole new world of challenges, and it will only be when (if) a vaccination is widely available that there may need to be a re-think on proof of vaccination, not just because of cruising or holidays in general.

[ratflinger]

No, if that is require then I stop cruising.  Did they ask to see your flu vaccine card?

[BlueRiband]

Interesting question but I tend to see where it would be recommended rather than required.  The US requires a yellow fever vaccination for travel to South America because they don't want the virus being brought back to the States.  Covid-19 however is already here. 

 

Vaccination will very likely be required for the crew as a condition of employment.   As for passengers - remember the mess CLIA created when it put in a rushed requirement that over-65s would need a doctor's "fit to sail" letter?   Can a standard proof of vaccination be verified for almost 3,000 passengers in the short time span of check-in?   Photoshop can churn out some pretty official-looking documents. 

 

In the US the anti-vaxers are a small but very vocal group.  The first case of anybody having a bad reaction - or getting sick despite vaccination - and the media story will go viral (pun intended).

[Matelot70]

3 hours ago, ratflinger said:

No, if that is require then I stop cruising.  Did they ask to see your flu vaccine card?

Flu has never caused the complete cessation of cruising for months and as far as I am aware the closure of ports. I personally cannot see ports running the risk of allowing ships to Dock unless they can prove they are Covid free. I suggest their attitude will to treat Covid more like the risk of Yellow Fever being brought into a country. At present various countries require proof of vaccination if travelling from a Yellow fever area.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, Matelot70 said:

Flu has never caused the complete cessation of cruising for months and as far as I am aware the closure of ports. I personally cannot see ports running the risk of allowing ships to Dock unless they can prove they are Covid free. I suggest their attitude will to treat Covid more like the risk of Yellow Fever being brought into a country. At present various countries require proof of vaccination if travelling from a Yellow fever area.

Yeah but there wasn't this amount of cruise lines back in 1918 was there?

[ace2542]

9 hours ago, showingdiva said:

 

The yellow card scheme within the NHS in the UK is only for the general reporting of drug interaction, allergies, adverse reactions etc.   If you need proof of anything medical in the UK, you can either request a copy of that part of your medical records or a letter from your GP (both of which there will be a charge, which varies from 50p per photocopy to £20 for a vaccination report (current charges)).

 

However, Covid19 has thrown up a whole new world of challenges, and it will only be when (if) a vaccination is widely available that there may need to be a re-think on proof of vaccination, not just because of cruising or holidays in general.

I would be willing to show the vaccination report even though that is another 40 quid for the 2 of us though I would not be willing to be submit to any kind of blood test. I don't think Cunard would do that but I think there are cruise lines that might.

 

I wonder if they will have the vaccine on board the ships so if any cases do get discovered people can be vaccinated by the ship doctor? Or would it not work like that.

[Etta1213]

6 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

 

I wonder if they will have the vaccine on board the ships so if any cases do get discovered people can be vaccinated by the ship doctor? Or would it not work like that.

I  have always thought that vaccines take a while once injected to produce results/protection. Unless a person is on a cruise longer than, for example, two weeks, would getting the vaccine from the ship's doctor do any good ? Maybe somebody in the medical field could respond to this?

[exlondoner]

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Yeah but there wasn't this amount of cruise lines back in 1918 was there?

 

But probably far more passenger shipping lines.

[resistk]

These sort of measures would put a huge crimp in the current model of crusiing which may be be dying anyway. In the US it costs about $160 to get a medical health clearence form filled out.  I don't know any doctors who do it for free as is always helpfully suggested.

[resistk]

Medical passporting could be a thing.  Remember Ellis Island and medical inspections were once unquestioably part of travel.  The problem is the US healthcare system is a shambles.

[ace2542]

4 hours ago, resistk said:

Medical passporting could be a thing.  Remember Ellis Island and medical inspections were once unquestioably part of travel.  The problem is the US healthcare system is a shambles.

Yeah and if you couldn't cough on command you got sent back home didn't you?

[Nachosdelux]

5 hours ago, resistk said:

These sort of measures would put a huge crimp in the current model of crusiing which may be be dying anyway. In the US it costs about $160 to get a medical health clearence form filled out.  I don't know any doctors who do it for free as is always helpfully suggested.

 

you can get the "yellow card" (WHO/CDC vaccination record) free from your physician.  If they don't have them, they are sold on Amazon for about $5.  Medical staff should not charge to fill in the record (it is not like a full medical clearance form), it basically takes 30 seconds fill out.  If you were ever in the US Military and have your old one, you can continue to use that form.  Or you could just get a letter from your doctor stating that you were vaccinated, with the date, and lot number/type of vaccination.

 

16 hours ago, ratflinger said:

No, if that is require then I stop cruising.  Did they ask to see your flu vaccine card?

 

Cut off your nose to spite your face.  Enjoy your time at home.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Nachosdelux

[resistk]

29 minutes ago, Nachosdelux said:

 

you can get the "yellow card" (WHO/CDC vaccination record) free from your physician.  If they don't have them, they are sold on Amazon for about $5.  Medical staff should not charge to fill in the record (it is not like a full medical clearance form), it basically takes 30 seconds fill out.  If you were ever in the US Military and have your old one, you can continue to use that form.  Or you could just get a letter from your doctor stating that you were vaccinated, with the date, and lot number/type of vaccination.

 

 

Surely we can do better than paper cards in the year 2020?  Any industry that would be dependent on paper medical clearence forms or paper cards deserves a swift burial.  In 2019 there were about 25 million cruises passengers carried worldwide, somehow they are going to have to find a better solution if they expect to do more than a fraction of businness at the 2019 level.  I think all we can do is hope things return to post COVID normal.

Edited August 9, 2020 by resistk

[ace2542]

23 minutes ago, resistk said:

 

Surely we can do better than paper cards in the year 2020?  Any industry that would be dependent on paper medical clearence forms or paper cards deserves a swift burial.  In 2019 there were about 25 million cruises passengers carried worldwide, somehow they are going to have to find a better solution if they expect to do more than a fraction of businness at the 2019 level.  I think all we can do is hope things return to post COVID normal.

Perhaps we can't do better than paper. With european GDPR regulations covering data protection within the EU including the UK even after brexit it could be a bit tricky to get anything more than paper information released even with your consent. The fines for violation of european data protection can be massive fwiw.

Edited August 9, 2020 by ace2542

[resistk]

3 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Perhaps we can't do better than paper. With european GDPR regulations covering data protection within the EU including the UK even after brexit it could be a bit tricky to get anything more than paper information released even with your consent. The fines for violation of european data protection can be massive fwiw.

 

That is a good point.  Who in their right mind would trust a mass market cruise line with sensitive medical information?

[ace2542]

9 hours ago, resistk said:

 

That is a good point.  Who in their right mind would trust a mass market cruise line with sensitive medical information?

That is a very good point but another thing to consider is the fines violating these European data protection rules are massive like millions and millions and are the last thing the cruise lines can afford. I think they will just have to have some kind of trust and accept the paper.

[carlmm]

On 8/8/2020 at 10:33 PM, bluemarble said:

If proof of vaccination were to be required in the future, my guess is that would be handled the same as other vaccinations (such as yellow fever vaccinations required for some countries). That's done via the International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP). Sometimes called the "Yellow Card" or "Carte Jaune".

 

Perfectly right. For me that is really a non issue.

On my last QV cruise (the last one which took place at all until now) nobody was allowed to board without yellow fewer vaccination. The ICVP is just one document more to show at embarkation. To check and mark as checked takes the agent maybe five seconds.

All the world travelling cruise lines are used to this. There are number of vaccinations required in various parts of the world. Standard procedure.

 

[ace2542]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:06 AM, Etta1213 said:

I  have always thought that vaccines take a while once injected to produce results/protection. Unless a person is on a cruise longer than, for example, two weeks, would getting the vaccine from the ship's doctor do any good ? Maybe somebody in the medical field could respond to this?

It has just been mentioned on the news. It is apparently 2 weeks to be effective.

Edited August 11, 2020 by ace2542

[mcloaked]

Every time you check in for a cruise you go to the desk, and you hand in your e-ticket, along with your passport, and have your credit card ready - the check-in desk staff are trusted to scan your passport and ticket, and your passport is electronically compared with the database of known criminals and if no red flags come up, you let the check-in person photograph you so that your cruise card is linked to a digital image of your face, and that data is then put into the ship's computer so that you can be visually checked against the stored image every time you embark or disembark the  ship, or indeed if you are doing your passport check on board during a transatlantic crossing on the way to Southampton!  It might be possible, since this is a global issue to have governments require that the vaccination process is confirmed by the authority conducting the jab, to send electronic confirmation to the passport authority of the country concerned, and a suitable flag added to the passport database, so that when you check your passport in at embarkation, or even when checking in for a flight to get to the port of embarkation, that this will flag to the check in staff if you are clear to travel. 

 

Electronic national databases are quite common now - after all in the UK, your car has the insurance validity, MOT test validity, and registration validity all in the DVLA database and the police, and indeed the public, can check whether a particular vehicle has all three currently valid or not.  It is not beyond the whit of man to require vaccination status to be a part of the passport check.  It is just one additional flag on top of the other data that is checked at the embarkation terminal. Any modern advanced society could easily add this kind of data if it was deemed critical to getting travel moving again - and after all travel of all kinds has been massively impacted on a global scale. Of course the first step is to have a working approved and proven effective vaccine available to the majority of the population of all countries.  Indeed also given that any vaccine would need a few weeks for the immune response to build up immunity, then the vaccine would have to have been given a couple of weeks before travel otherwise it would not protect the person fully.  Of course paper documentation would be a necessary backup, but a lot of thought also needs to be put in to preventing fake documentation or fraudulent confirmation whether electronic or paper!

[ace2542]

7 minutes ago, mcloaked said:

Every time you check in for a cruise you go to the desk, and you hand in your e-ticket, along with your passport, and have your credit card ready - the check-in desk staff are trusted to scan your passport and ticket, and your passport is electronically compared with the database of known criminals and if no red flags come up, you let the check-in person photograph you so that your cruise card is linked to a digital image of your face, and that data is then put into the ship's computer so that you can be visually checked against the stored image every time you embark or disembark the  ship, or indeed if you are doing your passport check on board during a transatlantic crossing on the way to Southampton!  It might be possible, since this is a global issue to have governments require that the vaccination process is confirmed by the authority conducting the jab, to send electronic confirmation to the passport authority of the country concerned, and a suitable flag added to the passport database, so that when you check your passport in at embarkation, or even when checking in for a flight to get to the port of embarkation, that this will flag to the check in staff if you are clear to travel. 

 

Electronic national databases are quite common now - after all in the UK, your car has the insurance validity, MOT test validity, and registration validity all in the DVLA database and the police, and indeed the public, can check whether a particular vehicle has all three currently valid or not.  It is not beyond the whit of man to require vaccination status to be a part of the passport check.  It is just one additional flag on top of the other data that is checked at the embarkation terminal. Any modern advanced society could easily add this kind of data if it was deemed critical to getting travel moving again - and after all travel of all kinds has been massively impacted on a global scale. Of course the first step is to have a working approved and proven effective vaccine available to the majority of the population of all countries.  Indeed also given that any vaccine would need a few weeks for the immune response to build up immunity, then the vaccine would have to have been given a couple of weeks before travel otherwise it would not protect the person fully.  Of course paper documentation would be a necessary backup, but a lot of thought also needs to be put in to preventing fake documentation or fraudulent confirmation whether electronic or paper!

I see what you are saying in the first paragraph on the passport but I think Doc/Patient confidentiality and GDPR European data protection might make that a no no. I am not sure whether that could be done without consent. And how long would it take to implement? Probably years?