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It's very simple; if a cruise line sets up any rules that you don't agree with then don't go on a cruise with that line.

 

However they should have rules such as the one being discussed in a large font and  coloured on the entry page on their website.

And on any email/advertising from the company.   Then people cannot complain about the "hidden" small print in the Rules & Regulations.

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7 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

Sorry to have to reel you in from your distraction, but what do your first amendment, or any other rights granted to you as a citizen of the US, have to do with anything that happens on a foreign-flagged ship or while visiting another country?

Dave specifically said in this country and mentioned the pride of America. That’s where this started.

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7 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

 

Sorry to have to reel you in from your distraction, but what do your first amendment, or any other rights granted to you as a citizen of the US, have to do with anything that happens on a foreign-flagged ship or while visiting another country?

 

Your rights here are not your rights there.

 

Wasn't the quote about places in the US ( post number 10 ) and not on a cruiseship or anywhere outside the US? Did I missunderstood that?

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I'm sorry I started this thread!!

 

I was just giving a lead to what had happened on an ITALIAN ship in an ITALIAN port; FYI. 

 

I didn't anticipate that it would turn into a discussion of the theoretical First Amendment rights of a teacher or restaurant worker in the USA.

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25 minutes ago, casofilia said:

I'm sorry I started this thread!!

 

I was just giving a lead to what had happened on an ITALIAN ship in an ITALIAN port; FYI. 

 

I didn't anticipate that it would turn into a discussion of the theoretical First Amendment rights of a teacher or restaurant worker in the USA.

Hey, I love MSC and the way they treat their customers. I wish they'd find a way to treat solo cruisers a bit better b/c if they did, I'd look no further.  My late DH was amazed at the way the officers, staff treated us.  Outstanding, I'd cruise them again in a minute.

 

To ellasmomandd:As for this nonsense regarding the rights of cruisers ( I have to assume we're talking strictly about cruising and not just politics here) it makes no sense to try to hold cruise lines responsible to the bill of rights of USA when there are cruisers from around the world who cruise NCL. 

 

In Canada 🍁, we don't adhere to the US "Bill of rights", we have our own as do other countries around the world.  Please keep that in mind. 

 

🍁 Cheers 

 

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2 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

To ellasmomandd:As for this nonsense regarding the rights of cruisers ( I have to assume we're talking strictly about cruising and not just politics here) it makes no sense to try to hold cruise lines responsible to the bill of rights of USA when there are cruisers from around the world who cruise NCL. 

 Your correct to a point but where do you board? Maybe to Alaska you get Vancouver but most likely your going to the us which does give you those rights. That’s how this started. It was never about being onboard he clearly said “But, as people have noted above, this will be a major issue on US-boarded cruises if it is still in effect. “

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4 hours ago, ellasmomanddad said:

 Your correct to a point but where do you board? Maybe to Alaska you get Vancouver but most likely your going to the us which does give you those rights. That’s how this started. It was never about being onboard he clearly said “But, as people have noted above, this will be a major issue on US-boarded cruises if it is still in effect. “

 

Sorry, but once again wrong. It has always been a part of every cruise contract that if you violate the rules they have the absolute right and authority to disembark you. This isn't new and none of your flailing will change that.

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I find it interesting that everyone (me included) who has actually commented on the original posting has agreed that MSC did the right thing.   

 

Where are all the people who disagree and think that the group who were thrown off should not have been?   Come on, come to the group's defence with well thought out arguments.

 
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They were within their rights to kick this family off the ship, but we won't cruise again if this ships-only excursion rule its taken up by the cruise lines we usually sail with.

 

1/ because we sometimes just like to wander around in port, but 2/ mainly because if it is necessary then it still isn't safe enough. 

 

We can't even visit our son and family in Holland for the foreseeable because the Foreign Office is advising against all but essential travel there, yet we have a constant stream of Brits moaning about having to cut short their holidays abroad because that particular country has been placed on a quarantine list. Yet they knew before they went that it was a risk to do so.

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I am fine with what MSC did....do I like wearing a mask?  No but I do out of respect for others and because I am required to. 

 

I want cruise lines to be able to start up and I want to cruise again.  If it takes me wearing a mask then I am fine with it even if I don't like it.  We all as fellow cruisers should be happy that the cruise lines are trying to get going and if you want to cruise then just accept the inconvenience of wearing a mask and all of the other changes that will happen.  If a person can not follow the rules then just don't cruise but I can tell you that other than driving yourself on your vacation you will still need to comply with rules.

 

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it is nice to get off the ship but not a necessity, we would just stay on the ship, would not pay for an excursion.  Once we took a post Brazil Olympics repositioning cruise from Rio - Florida, zero ports/stops about 13 days aprox, one of the best cruises we ever took.

Edited by Newleno
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16 hours ago, All-ready2cruise said:

s for this nonsense regarding the rights of cruisers ( I have to assume we're talking strictly about cruising and not just politics here) it makes no sense to try to hold cruise lines responsible to the bill of rights of USA when there are cruisers from around the world who cruise NCL. 

 

In Canada 🍁, we don't adhere to the US "Bill of rights", we have our own as do other countries around the world.  Please keep that in mind. 

 

🍁 Cheers 

 

Unfortunately in the USA right now, no one has any rights, it all comes down to the opinion/political affiliation of the judge/district attorney of your case, not based on legal facts/precedent.  

Edited by Newleno
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Heck, the next cruise I go on is sounding better and better.  I cruise to visit ports of interest, not for the ship atmosphere.  I take NCL excursions because I usually travel solo and the NCL excursions need no planning, are cheap for one and are readily available.

Call me a sheep all you want - I'm in the "we're all in this together" so it's a matter of what works for all, not my perceived rights as an individual if they in any way will harm another.

 

I don't drink, don't use the pool, and I'm not a foodie.  So restrict and regulate away - leaves more room for the rest of us!

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On 8/20/2020 at 9:52 PM, casofilia said:

I find it interesting that everyone (me included) who has actually commented on the original posting has agreed that MSC did the right thing.   

 

Where are all the people who disagree and think that the group who were thrown off should not have been?   Come on, come to the group's defence with well thought out arguments.

 

I just visited the MSC website and appears they don't have to worry about unruly Americans as USA passports are not on the list that can sail with them in Europe.  Smart in my opinion.

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On 8/21/2020 at 3:52 AM, casofilia said:

I find it interesting that everyone (me included) who has actually commented on the original posting has agreed that MSC did the right thing.   

 

Where are all the people who disagree and think that the group who were thrown off should not have been?   Come on, come to the group's defence with well thought out arguments.

 

 

Hopefully noone will come because there are no arguments to defend them!

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:21 PM, ellasmomanddad said:

 Your correct to a point but where do you board? Maybe to Alaska you get Vancouver but most likely your going to the us which does give you those rights. That’s how this started. It was never about being onboard he clearly said “But, as people have noted above, this will be a major issue on US-boarded cruises if it is still in effect. “

Not really.  Keep in mind that when you board a ship, even from a US port, you are in effect leaving the US and US laws do not apply.  The countries whose laws most apply are those in which the ship is registered.

 

There are some conditions that the US places on ships, in order for them to sail from US ports, but compliance with all US law is not one of them.

 

 

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On 8/20/2020 at 6:21 AM, ellasmomanddad said:

It called freedom of speech which included clothing. California vs Cohen.

Businesses have traditionally set dress requirements for those entering their premises, e.g., "no shoes, no shirts, no service."  California vs. Cohen was about free speech as displayed on one's clothing, which is a bit different from being required to wear a mask (but you can say whatever you like on your mask!).  Interesting reading, since nowadays you can get yourself killed wearing a Trump shirt.

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On 8/19/2020 at 10:38 PM, BirdTravels said:

Airlines are doing the same. Recently someone refused to ware their mask once they were on the plane. When they got to their next airport, they were refused boarding on their connecting flight, leaving them stranded. They got irate and hit the agent that refused them boarding and now face more problems than being on the no fly list. 

I saw the video of that interaction. The woman was hysterical, mouthing off and threatening people before she was escorted away by what looked like a security guard. No excuse for that kind of behavior and I for one support the right of airlines and cruise lines to deny boarding to people who refuse to follow reasonable safety protocols.

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I hope that cruise lines don’t require ship excursions only in the future. I like doing smaller groups in new ports and self exploration in places I’ve been.
That being said, I’d abide by it if they do and applaud MSC for kicking them off.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

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I am also glad MSC stuck to their guns and kicked the family off.  The family obviously knew the rules before leaving the ship.  Probably had to sign some sort of waiver before the excursion saying they would stay with the group, and probably had numerous reminders during the excursion.   As far as the future of cruising goes - I will follow whatever rules they put in.  If I feel I can't, or won't be safe from infection, I won't cruise.  I am happy not getting off the ship at a Caribbean or Bahamas port.  Have been to them enough times that I would be fine to use the ship as a floating hotel.  I usually use NCL for more "exotic" cruises - Med/Europe/Hawaii.  I am now looking at Scotland/Iceland/Norway 2021 cruise.  On that cruise I would now take cruise-ship excursions as all the ports are new to me.  While I enjoy private excursions at some foreign ports, it would be worth the extra money to be able to get off the ship and explore countries I have never been to.

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