MSC Not Tolerating Violation of New C-19 Health Protocols

[ABoatNerd]

As posted on the Holland America board - we have not heard anything from this so called "family".

 

Was there a real "family" - or is this a MSC public relations deliverable to portray the company as serious?

 

Most interesting development.

 

I vote on the side of this "family" being a hoax.

 

 

[Miaminice]

12 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

As posted on the Holland America board - we have not heard anything from this so called "family".

 

Was there a real "family" - or is this a MSC public relations deliverable to portray the company as serious?

 

Most interesting development.

 

I vote on the side of this "family" being a hoax.

 

 

It’s been reported in Italian and other European media as well as on reputable cruise related sources... why doubt it?

 

We returned from Italy yesterday and I can say that Italy is handling the regulations pretty good and strict. Tourists and locals in the streets of old towns were for example asked to wear masks by police (mandatory after 6pm since Monday) etc. etc.

Italy learned the hard way and they don’t want any setbacks.

 

I am no fan of MSC or Costa. On the contrary! However, having experienced how things are handled in Italy, I have no reason to doubt that MSC would be an exception regarding the Covid regulations. 
 

Refusing people to continue the cruise who violated the known and accepted guidelines is the logical thing to do. First time I really like something about MSC.

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Miaminice

[Fouremco]

12 hours ago, Shadow9612 said:

While I agree with what you have posted@Fouremco, i feel that MSC should have used clearer wording which includes all possibilities.  

 

Honestly, I assumed based on their wording that face masks would be what they're using to cover their faces. I'd have been extremely upset and even felt deceived if the waiter arrived at my table with a shield, which clearly doesn't protect me.

 

If face shields are permitted, they should have said "such as face mask or face shield, gloves, etc."

I agree, MSC could have been more transparent. I can only assume that they didn't view the mask/shield question as being a divisive issue.

[Miaminice]

What you guys are forgeting is the simple but important point that the MSC cruises are for Italians only...

People in Italy know that in the hospitality business full face shield and even smaller ones (only covering mouth and nose) are accepted and commonly used. They see them when visiting restaurants, hotels and sometimes even shops. The reason why they are used is because you can see the face and smile of the waiter or front desk staff. 

 

So addressing only Italians the issue it is neither devisive nor surprising -  it´s only an issue discussed here!

Again, I am in no way preferring the face shields. I am just saying for Italians it´s not an issue and not seen as non-transparency - and they are the only ones who could care, since they are the only ones on the cruises.

Actually this discussion is kind of paradox! Most people here (I am excluding Canadians now) are from a country with catastrophic numbers, no common consensus for any improvement, a constantly steepening curve and no end in sight - and they are discussing about what an Italian cruise line, implimenting Italian guidelines which were highly successful is doing wrong!

Edited August 22, 2020 by Miaminice

[Fouremco]

18 minutes ago, Miaminice said:

What you guys are forgeting is the simple but important point that the MSC cruises are for Italians only...

People in Italy know that in the hospitality business full face shield and even smaller ones (only covering mouth and nose) are accepted and commonly used. They see them when visiting restaurants, hotels and sometimes even shops. The reason why they are used is because you can see the face and smile of the waiter or front desk staff. 

 

So addressing only Italians the issue it is neither devisive nor surprising -  it´s only an issue discussed here!

Again, I am in no way preferring the face shields. I am just saying for Italians it´s not an issue and not seen as non-transparency - and they are the only ones who could care, since they are the only ones on the cruises.

Actually this discussion is kind of paradox! Most people here (I am excluding Canadians now) are from a country with catastrophic numbers, no common consensus for any improvement, a constantly steepening curve and no end in sight - and they are discussing about what an Italian cruise line, implimenting Italian guidelines which were highly successful is doing wrong!

Thanks, I suspected that the use of face shields was more common in Italy but couldn't find related documentation. What you say makes MSC's application of the protocol even more understandable.

[npcl]

6 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

I wonder if the face shields are used in certain roles like waiters?   Like others I would expect the cruise lines to learn from these start up experiences and be more specific on what to expect.

I seem to recall reading in one of the proposed restart plans (unfortunately have not been able to locate it) that the plan was to use face shields for waiters and customer service. Those positions that require communications with customers, due to people with hearing issues having problems communicating with people wearing masks.

 

I will continue looking and see if I can find it.  It was back before the change  for everyone to wear masks.

[Pinboy]

Nothing to debate--- Pretty simple --- MSC did the right thing.

If the shield and/or face mask make the difference whether to take a cruise or not, you're best to stay home.

Without a doubt there are going to be all kinds of other annoyances on cruise ships.

They are called " Passengers " !!

 

[mnocket]

55 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

Nothing to debate--- Pretty simple --- MSC did the right thing.

If the shield and/or face mask make the difference whether to take a cruise or not, you're best to stay home.

Without a doubt there are going to be all kinds of other annoyances on cruise ships.

They are called " Passengers " !!

 

That's exactly the point!  How does one know from their published COVID protocols?  Reading them, I came away with the impression that all crew would wear face masks and gloves.  Clearly they do not.  Others have pointed out that a strict reading of their protocols promises nothing with regard to specifics - only that all crew will wear PPE. There are no specifics regarding face coverings at all.  Don't you think MSC should make clear their specific PPE protocols so that customers can make an informed decision?  How is not doing so doing "the right thing"?

[mnocket]

7 hours ago, rhblake said:

How did this post get so far off the original statement of a family being removed from the cruise. I think this post needs to end and if everyone wants to debate face masks vs. shields start a new post.

Reasonable question.  Since I started it, here's my justification.

 

The topic is "MSC Not Tolerating Violation of New C-19 Health Protocols"

 

The mask vs shield discussion focuses specifically on what exactly are MSC C-19 health protocols, are they following them and are they clear to the public.  Seems relevant to me, although I respect your opposing view.

[Gracie115]

Take a look at this video that goes into great depth on what MSC did to make the ship safe, at a cost of 500,000 pounds for the week.  I KNOW I would feel safe on that ship.

 

 

[JennAngel9]

I think the most critical elements of the health protocol are (1) enforcement and (2) only letting people from extremely low prevalence (low risk) areas on board the ship in the first place. In the US, we have no plan in sight to get Florida anywhere close to the levels seen in the average European country.  I'm very happy for European cruisers that (so far) these protocols are being enforced and may be enough to get cruising restarted safely so long as local levels of COVID-19 remain low... but I worry American based sailings will think things like face shields are sufficient, even where 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000 people might be coming on board with COVID-19.  Meanwhile, American cruisers who would happily follow these restrictions are unlikely to be allowed to get on European cruises anytime soon. 

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, Gracie115 said:

Take a look at this video that goes into great depth on what MSC did to make the ship safe, at a cost of 500,000 pounds for the week.  I KNOW I would feel safe on that ship.

 

 

Thanks, @Gracie115, that's a really informative video. Like you, I would feel very comfortable sailing under these conditions.

[phoenix_dream]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:36 PM, Baron Barracuda said:

Believe sailing was restricted to Italian citizens and only called at Italian ports so malefactors may have been disembarked not too far from home.

That's good to know.  I still wonder about the fairness to the ports, though, with kicking people off the ship and making them the port's problem.  I think a better idea would be forcing them to be confined to their cabin for the duration of the cruise.  But glad they are doing something to people who do not follow the very important rules.

[bouhunter]

9 hours ago, rhblake said:

How did this post get so far off the original statement of a family being removed from the cruise. I think this post needs to end and if everyone wants to debate face masks vs. shields start a new post.

Pretty much every thread eventually morphs into the same old stuff about vaccines, masks, infection/death rates, testing..........

Edited August 22, 2020 by bouhunter

[Fouremco]

10 hours ago, rhblake said:

How did this post get so far off the original statement of a family being removed from the cruise. I think this post needs to end and if everyone wants to debate face masks vs. shields start a new post.

In fact, the topic is MSC Not Tolerating Violation of New C-19 Health Protocols. Consequently, the question raised by some posters as to whether MSC was itself in violation of its own health protocols by using face shields and subsequent discussions are very much on topic.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Fouremco

[Iamcruzin]

On 8/19/2020 at 9:26 PM, cheeseheads4ever said:

Yes great call MSC. Don’t get the personal threat to freedom. You are protecting others as well as your selves. Same reason I don’t get people not wearing masks in stores. The more we protect each other the quicker this crud will be gone. Don’t get it.

I tell my customers that their freedom stops that the door. The business owner has full jurisdiction on what goes on in their establishment. No mask no service.

[ABoatNerd]

Has anyone heard from the "family"? Have they identified themselves? Have they spoken out about what happened?

 

Given the questions now about the the lack of MSC clarity on PPE (ie face masks vs face shields) would be interesting to know if the lack of clarity extends to the so called "family" situation.

 

Waiting.

[Shadow9612]

6 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

Take a look at this video that goes into great depth on what MSC did to make the ship safe, at a cost of 500,000 pounds for the week.  I KNOW I would feel safe on that ship.

 

 

Thanks @Gracie115

 

excellent and informative video. I would also feel very comfortable sailing under these conditions.

[Miaminice]

8 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

Has anyone heard from the "family"? Have they identified themselves? Have they spoken out about what happened?

 

Given the questions now about the the lack of MSC clarity on PPE (ie face masks vs face shields) would be interesting to know if the lack of clarity extends to the so called "family" situation.

 

Waiting.

There is no question!!!

And there is no lack of clarity!!!

 

Can we finally give this a rest...

 

For the Italian passengers on board face shields are an accepted and known procedure. And since nobody else but Italians are on board, nobody else needs to create an issue where there is none!

[Miaminice]

10 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

That's good to know.  I still wonder about the fairness to the ports, though, with kicking people off the ship and making them the port's problem.  I think a better idea would be forcing them to be confined to their cabin for the duration of the cruise.  But glad they are doing something to people who do not follow the very important rules.

It‘s not the ports problem! They are Italian citizens in Italy. They will have to find a way home within their own country...
They knew what they were in for, violated the rules and now have to deal with it. 
 

Given some reactions here I wonder about the reactions if MSC had confined a family and kids to the stateroom. Besides that from an infection point of view it makes no sense to let them back on.

[carlmm]

14 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

.. I still wonder about the fairness to the ports, though, with kicking people off the ship and making them the port's problem.  ...

 

From the port's perspective these people might be nothing special.

Remember, they were not identified as being ill, the"only" violation of rules was to leave the group and roam around on their own - just like any other tourists whether they arrived by train, car, bike, plane or on foot.

All the towns in question are open to visitors.

Yet, they did endanger the MSC bubble.

[cruisemom42]

23 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

As posted on the Holland America board - we have not heard anything from this so called "family".

 

Was there a real "family" - or is this a MSC public relations deliverable to portray the company as serious?

 

Most interesting development.

 

I vote on the side of this "family" being a hoax.

 

 

 

Why in the world would you create a conspiracy theory out of literally nothing?

 

Italy is not the US -- people who feel "wronged" do not immediately seek out the press to tell "their side of the story" for sympathy (and often for big bucks offered by the press....)

 

It would make more sense to assume they are ashamed/embarrassed by what happened and don't necessarily want anyone to know their identity.

Edited August 23, 2020 by cruisemom42

[PTC DAWG]

Don’t like the protocols, stay home.  Obviously lots of scared people in the world.

[Pinboy]

12 hours ago, ABoatNerd said:

Has anyone heard from the "family"? Have they identified themselves? Have they spoken out about what happened?

 

Given the questions now about the the lack of MSC clarity on PPE (ie face masks vs face shields) would be interesting to know if the lack of clarity extends to the so called "family" situation.

 

Waiting.

If you were the family that was " booted off the ship for not obeying their rules because of your " entitlement " , would you go public with it ?  

 

 

[dogs4fun]

I don't traffic in conspiracy theories so I won't be waiting to hear anything from the family expelled from the Grandiosa. 

Since MSC is an Italian line, I don't look for any posts from those on the ship - Italians simply don't post on the US cruise blogs (at least not with any degree of regularity). 

I surmise that the members of the expelled family are somewhat chagrined - at least to the extent that they were caught and that their poor behavior resulted in banishment from the ship. Hopefully, they have learned a valuable lesson.