Miami-Dade & Broward Phase 2

[ipeeinthepool]

1 hour ago, Langley Cruisers said:

OP brenderlou, I know you are excited about your possible upcoming cruise but I just don't see it happening. I admire your optimism but this virus is far from contained and you just need to listen to the health experts to get the real facts. Among other bad news, there are outbreaks on college campuses in all fifty states. You couldn't pay me to cruise right now.😞

 

Good Luck.  My posts get deleted when I suggest November cruises won't happen.

[npcl]

4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Given the context and the surrounding paragraphs, I've no doubt that they are referring to cruise ships.

 

Crew continue to contract COVID-19 aboard laid-up ships, according to CDC data obtained by the Miami Herald via a Freedom of Information Act request. At least seven ships in U.S. waters during the month of August reported COVID-19 or COVID-like illnesses to the CDC that month.

 

Like you, I imagine that the provisioning of the ships is responsible for introducing the virus onboard. Curious minds would like to know whether these cases were scattered across several line or a single line using the same source(s) for supplies.

 

The fact that the information was only acquired through a Freedom of Information Act request I find quite troubling. Clearly, the line(s) involved aren't being open about these cases, yet another talking point for cruise critics.

 

I suspect that they never eradicated Covid from those ships. They has been reports of Covid or Covid like symptoms on ships. It was mentioned when the CDC extended the no sail order.

 

They mentioned a number of points where they felt the cruise lines were coming up short. One of the major ones was lack of testing. Without effective testing they cannot make sure that a ship is Covid free.

 

In addition they have moved employees between ships and they have brought replacement key employees into ships. All have the potential to bring cases into the ships.

[Cruise a holic]

18 hours ago, brenderlou said:

Expanded openings with restaurants, gyms, schools, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

However Florida now seems to be a high risk state for covid.  I wouldn't sail from that state until a vaccine (safe one!) is out and ready for distribution.  Just because certain facilities are open, doesn't mean we should not continue to wear masks and practice social distancing- Listen to Dr. Faucci and science.

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I agree.   We need to figure out how to live with Covid.

Yes I agree too.  Many things have been put in place in the USA and worldwide since February to deal with COVID.  It is now Sept.  It will be around even if a vaccine comes along. For years.   I for one think there is way to much focus on positive COVID tests alone as the benchmark.  That was appropriate months ago.  It is an indicator of virus in the population for sure.  But it is not an indicator of how the population is actually dealing with the virus and being affected by the virus.  Now later in the pandemic there needs to be some type of worldwide medical board that reviews data and comes up with new benchmarks for assessing the pandemic that everybody will agree with and use.  

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

On 9/11/2020 at 5:40 PM, Fouremco said:

Given the context and the surrounding paragraphs, I've no doubt that they are referring to cruise ships.

 

Crew continue to contract COVID-19 aboard laid-up ships, according to CDC data obtained by the Miami Herald via a Freedom of Information Act request. At least seven ships in U.S. waters during the month of August reported COVID-19 or COVID-like illnesses to the CDC that month.

 

Like you, I imagine that the provisioning of the ships is responsible for introducing the virus onboard. Curious minds would like to know whether these cases were scattered across several line or a single line using the same source(s) for supplies.

 

The fact that the information was only acquired through a Freedom of Information Act request I find quite troubling. Clearly, the line(s) involved aren't being open about these cases, yet another talking point for cruise critics.

 

 

Covid-like illnesses???  That could be a common cold, its cousin.  This virus isn't going away.  Viruses have been with us forever.  You do understand, don't you, that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving this unless you have significant co-morbidities?  If you die of a heart attack or pneumonia these days, you're counted as dying from corona.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

On 9/12/2020 at 7:32 AM, Cruise a holic said:

However Florida now seems to be a high risk state for covid.  I wouldn't sail from that state until a vaccine (safe one!) is out and ready for distribution.  Just because certain facilities are open, doesn't mean we should not continue to wear masks and practice social distancing- Listen to Dr. Faucci and science.

 

Florida is a big place.  I live in SW Florida.  We've been in Phase II+ for some time now and have not seen a rise in cases.  I expect we will advance to Phase III shortly.

[Fouremco]

49 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

You do understand, don't you, that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving this unless you have significant co-morbidities?  If you die of a heart attack or pneumonia these days, you're counted as dying from corona.

There are two measures used to assess the proportion of infected individuals with fatal outcomes. The first is infection fatality ratio (IFR), which estimates this proportion of deaths among all infected individuals. The second is case fatality ratio (CFR), which estimates this proportion of deaths among identified confirmed cases. While I've seen reporting on both ratios, I've not seen any that has attempted to separate fatal outcome numbers by severity or even by the existence of co-morbidities. Can you provide a link to your source?

 

I can't speak for Florida, but in Canada there has been no issue over misclassifying a death caused by heart attack or pneumonia as being caused by Covid-19. 

[gold1953]

1 hour ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Covid-like illnesses???  That could be a common cold, its cousin.  This virus isn't going away.  Viruses have been with us forever.  You do understand, don't you, that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving this unless you have significant co-morbidities?  If you die of a heart attack or pneumonia these days, you're counted as dying from corona.

 We happen to know a man in his 60's .. fit and healthy.. spent 61 days on life support and now has the body of an old man. It was covid!

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Covid-like illnesses???  That could be a common cold, its cousin.  This virus isn't going away.  Viruses have been with us forever.  You do understand, don't you, that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving this unless you have significant co-morbidities?  If you die of a heart attack or pneumonia these days, you're counted as dying from corona.

the cruise have refused to implement a proper testing protocol for exactly the reason your response is an example of. As long as there is no test it doesn't count as covid and they can deny it being present.

[Oville]

3 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Covid-like illnesses???  That could be a common cold, its cousin.  This virus isn't going away.  Viruses have been with us forever.  You do understand, don't you, that you have a 99%+ chance of surviving this unless you have significant co-morbidities?  If you die of a heart attack or pneumonia these days, you're counted as dying from corona.

Where did the 99%+ come from?  That would mean less than 65,000 people in the US have died from Covid.

[Baron Barracuda]

1 hour ago, npcl said:

the cruise have refused to implement a proper testing protocol for exactly the reason your response is an example of. As long as there is no test it doesn't count as covid and they can deny it being present.

If they can't accurately test a handful of crew on laid up ships how do they plan to regularly test thousands of passengers?  It's no wonder they have little credibility with CDC.

[T&T]

24 minutes ago, Oville said:

Where did the 99%+ come from?  That would mean less than 65,000 people in the US have died from Covid.

 Your 65,000 is based only on cases that have been tested and reported which is not the actual count of COVID cases.  The CDC director himself said that true case count is likely 10X what is being reported due to testing limitations, asymptomatic people not being tested etc...  If the actual case count was only 4X that would be approx 26 million cases making the survival rate still 99%+.  Please know that I'm not saying the deaths that did occur mean less since the survival rate is 99%+. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by T&T

[Covepointcruiser]

Unfortunately, many people died with COVID and not from COVID.    Hospitals received additional federal funding for each COVID case.    

[Oville]

2 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Unfortunately, many people died with COVID and not from COVID.    Hospitals received additional federal funding for each COVID case.    

Oops didn’t mean to drag politics into this.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Unfortunately, many people died with COVID and not from COVID.    Hospitals received additional federal funding for each COVID case.    

so you are saying that the hospitals are committing fraud, for which, if they are caught would deny them the ability to participate in federal programs such as medicare for a few dollars.

[Shadow9612]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:19 PM, hcat said:

We did a Lift and Shift into Jan 2022.

If that is not a go, we will write off our FCC as a loss and give up! That would be very sad!

Do you think celebrity will allow us to lift and shift a sailing a second time if this continues well into 2021?

[Shadow9612]

On 9/11/2020 at 7:53 PM, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Good Luck.  My posts get deleted when I suggest November cruises won't happen.

@ipeeinthepool Really??

[NMTraveller]

On 9/11/2020 at 12:22 PM, Fouremco said:

It appears that the cruise industry has yet to provide revised protocols to the CDC, so the ball is still in its court. NCL's health protocol proposal, to be submitted within the next ten days, is a start.

 

I was unpleasantly surprised to see that there were at least seven ships in US waters reporting possible COVID-19 cases during August. I don't recall this information being published previously.

 

While I applaud the publishing of the reports.  How are people getting COVID while in a cruise ship bubble?  Aren't the ships offshore with minimal staffing?

[npcl]

11 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

 

While I applaud the publishing of the reports.  How are people getting COVID while in a cruise ship bubble?  Aren't the ships offshore with minimal staffing?

A number of ways.

 

1. they moved personnel between ships without testing

2 they have brought some new personnel on board for key jobs

3. they never fully tested all crew on board so it could have been present for a while on the ship 

[NMTraveller]

2 minutes ago, npcl said:

A number of ways.

 

1. they moved personnel between ships without testing

2 they have brought some new personnel on board for key jobs

3. they never fully tested all crew on board so it could have been present for a while on the ship 

 

OK.  I had expected them to be a bit smarter about this oh well.  This sounds like cruising won't start for a while.

[wrk2cruise]

9 hours ago, Shadow9612 said:

Do you think celebrity will allow us to lift and shift a sailing a second time if this continues well into 2021?

 

Current rules are you can't L&S a second time.  The current Cruise With Confidence program also ends in just a couple of weeks although everything except L&S is available on bookings made before 9/30.  It will be interesting to see what the next set of announcements from Celebrity will be and if there will be an extension of L&S.

[PTC DAWG]

17 hours ago, Fouremco said:

 

I can't speak for Florida, but in Canada there has been no issue over misclassifying a death caused by heart attack or pneumonia as being caused by Covid-19. 

It has been a huge issue in the US. CDC has said only 6% of deaths are caused by COVID only...

[WonderMan3]

As more things open and kids go back to school the numbers will go up again. Here in MA we had gotten things well under control after a disastrous March-May and then we started moving through our opening phases and our resort areas like Cape Cod (where I live) started getting busy especially with July 4th and our numbers went up again. They were on the decline again by mid-August but now data is  pointing to an increase again due to school openings and end of summer gatherings. This is going to be an up and down cycle until a vaccine starts to be distributed which is likely not until January. Even then it will still be up and down through 2021 but diminishing as more and more people get the vaccine. Europe seems likely to be able to get its 2021 spring and summer cruising going (from the lines that remain currently shut down) but I don’t think the U.S. will see cruising resume until summer 2021 at the earliest.

Edited September 14, 2020 by WonderMan3

[WonderMan3]

3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

It has been a huge issue in the US. CDC has said only 6% of deaths are caused by COVID only...

Unclear what the point of this statement is. You could fall and hit your head and die from a blood clot in your brain days later. The blood clot killed you but if not for the fall it would not have happened. These people who died from a heart attack or pneumonia had it brought on by COVID. The majority of them would still be alive now.

[HSTeacher1]

I wonder how much longer the cruise lines can continue to have billions of dollars in assets sitting still.  At some point if they aren't allowed to open up they never will.  I'm afraid that point is soon.  

 

My guess is the Holiday season might be the make or break for a number of lines to get reopened.

 

-Dan