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For Sale? But which of the 7 is this?


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3 hours ago, StanandJim said:

RCCL has been waiting for a number of years for Azamara to make them some money,  unfortunately, their ROA has never been better than dismal.  

Factor in that no Azamara newbuild has ever been on the horizon and it seems to me that the handwriting is on the wall.

 

 

Okay, thanks...just speculation then, not based on any recent news...

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21 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Good luck with that one - double the price to make it presentable.

As said those are stock photos.  The Pacific Princess also had a major renovation in 2018. As nice as any of the Oceania R ships.

 

 

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Hey sports fans...as long as we are guessing......how about this   Carnival said they are selling 20% of their ships....  it started with 6 ships.... then expanded to 13 and possibly 20 ships across all their lines...  No names given but they said 4 are already sold.....     Get out the crystal ball....... place tour bets    Princess, HAL,  Carnival will all take hits i looks like

 

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If the ad shows ship was built in 2001, it is the R-8.  So all the various name changes for the R8 are Minerva II, Royal Princess, Adonia, Fathom, and, currently, Azamara Pursuit.  So, those who wanted Pacific Princess, you got the wrong Princess ship.  Right now, the only ships from the Renaissance fleet with a passenger capacity of 704 are the Azamara Pursuit and Journey, but the latter was built in 2000.  So, if I was a betting man, the odds look very good for the Azamara Pursuit.

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10 hours ago, KS&JW said:

I'm going to believe Jan's post. 

 

However, for those still debating this, there is this comment on the Azamara boards about this topic to add to the mix.

1783016503_ScreenShot2020-09-17at5_07_36PM.png.7dd330b6d454723d5b8ff8dddfb5afd0.png

I think the summary and analysis on the Azamara boards by ‘norn iron’ was spot on. It effectively ended the discussion.

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I have a different take based just on pure speculation; I have no inside knowledge.  I do think that eventually RCG and NCLH will merge; after all they are sharing the Healthy Sale [sic] Panel and Muster app and probably other apps.  At the time of merger, I think Azamara and Oceania will be merged under the Oceania name.  

 

Just idle speculation because I have too much time on my hands and nowhere to travel.

 

Marc

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4 hours ago, Dylandude said:

I think the summary and analysis on the Azamara boards by ‘norn iron’ was spot on. It effectively ended the discussion.

I looked at S2355 and S2140.  Isn't it possible that both ships are for sale?  It's not necessary have to be one or the other.  Even if S2140 is an old listing, it says that it was updated in Aug. 2020.  Maybe, Azamara didn't want to advertise one of its ship that it was trying to sell, just as Princess doesn't want to advertise that it wants to sell its R-class ship.  I can't see a small website not updating its files for 5 years - Azamara bought the Pursuit in 2015 right?

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1 hour ago, deadzone1003 said:

I looked at S2355 and S2140.  Isn't it possible that both ships are for sale?  It's not necessary have to be one or the other.  Even if S2140 is an old listing, it says that it was updated in Aug. 2020.  Maybe, Azamara didn't want to advertise one of its ship that it was trying to sell, just as Princess doesn't want to advertise that it wants to sell its R-class ship.  I can't see a small website not updating its files for 5 years - Azamara bought the Pursuit in 2015 right?

Azamara bought the ship in 2018. Obviously yes, both ships can be for sale. Further S2140 is listed as being located in Glasgow, which just happens to be where all three Azamara ships are currently docked. Pacific Princess is docked in Civitivecchia. And S2140 is listed as being built in 2001, which if correct means it's the Pursuit because R Eight was the only ship in that class launched in 2001. Pacific Princess was launched in 1999. The information on S2140 is cited as being updated in August of 2020, so it's current.

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4 hours ago, mrlevin said:

I have a different take based just on pure speculation; I have no inside knowledge.  I do think that eventually RCG and NCLH will merge; after all they are sharing the Healthy Sale [sic] Panel and Muster app and probably other apps.  At the time of merger, I think Azamara and Oceania will be merged under the Oceania name.  

 

Just idle speculation because I have too much time on my hands and nowhere to travel.

 

Marc

Funny...I was speculating the same, when I learned of their  collaboration, outside of the CLIA organization....

It seems rather far-fetched, but in these extreme times, who knows?

If it does happen, they will probably combine Regent and Silversea, or perhaps make Silversea the expedition arm ....

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R ships are becoming increasingly hard sells in the market. Yes, they have their followers, but those numbers are dwindling. Oceania was already moving towards a new “A” Class, and would be retiring out the Rs or the next 5-8 years. The refurbishments were just to keep them presentable that long! Any merging of Azamara and Oceania would be stupid. A ocean line of primarily old small ships with bathrooms no one wants!

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Concur with the soon demise of the R ships; I have never been a fan to start with. 

 

bob, yes it makes sense then to merge Celebrity Expedition with Silversea Expedition and move the remainder of the Silversea fleet to Regent.

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This has been around prior to the virus and many of these ships have already been sold or scrapped.

A large portion of the drydock (refurb) cost are mandatory inspections and required maintenance which would be required prior to sale so it does not necessarily reflect the owners desire to keep a ship.

Another thing to keep in mind that an 'A' class ship with almost twice the pax and 1/3 lower operating cost then the "R"'s it makes sense to sell them in a potentially lean market for the next few years.

The mid size ships seem to be selling well because they are affordable for the small specialty and charter companies. Larger ships are heading to the scrap yards.

I think you will see a lot of bankruptcies before major mergers. Picking the bones of the bankrupt companies makes more sense then merging failing companies.

 

#7 is Insignia

 

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20 hours ago, pinotlover said:

R ships are becoming increasingly hard sells in the market. Yes, they have their followers, but those numbers are dwindling. Oceania was already moving towards a new “A” Class, and would be retiring out the Rs or the next 5-8 years. The refurbishments were just to keep them presentable that long! Any merging of Azamara and Oceania would be stupid. A ocean line of primarily old small ships with bathrooms no one wants!

For me, it's more about the itinerary than the ship. We have a French Polynesia cruise booked but the only O ship that sails there is the Regatta.  We've been to the Baltic, the Mediterranean, and South America and now we would like to see places that we haven't been.  If that happens only on the R ships, so be it.  Besides, I'd love to see the refurbished Regatta.

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I used to be one who hated the bathrooms in the veranda cabins on the "R" ships ... that is why we "upgraded" ourselves to PH.  But when we were in a B1 on Nautica three years ago (maybe two), the bathrooms really didn't bother me.

 

Sure, I prefer the big suites.  But we don't always want to pay that much ... and on that cruise we'd taken a downsell which paid for a cruise on another "R" ship a couple of months later in a VS....

 

I would not like to see the "R" ships disappear ...OTOH they are getting older, aren't they?!

 

Mura

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R ships are not going to just disappear quickly, but they are clock. They are becoming the Oldsmobile and Buick “ land barges” of the 80s and 90s. Far to expensive to operate and growing quickly out of style. 
 

2025-2028, they’ll all be gone from all the fleets. Time marches on.

 

The far bigger discussion should be about the Insignia being for sale. Not sure at $150 million it will sell, or how firm that price is, but a lot of schedules will get shuffled or canceled if a ship disappears!

 

Oceania isn’t very good on announcements, but has anything officially been said about the status of the “ A” Class ships on order? Why should it be a secret?

Edited by pinotlover
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11 hours ago, pinotlover said:

R ships are not going to just disappear quickly, but they are clock. They are becoming the Oldsmobile and Buick “ land barges” of the 80s and 90s. Far to expensive to operate and growing quickly out of style. 
 

2025-2028, they’ll all be gone from all the fleets. Time marches on.

 

The far bigger discussion should be about the Insignia being for sale. Not sure at $150 million it will sell, or how firm that price is, but a lot of schedules will get shuffled or canceled if a ship disappears!

 

Oceania isn’t very good on announcements, but has anything officially been said about the status of the “ A” Class ships on order? Why should it be a secret?

Where did you get information that Insignia is for sale? Did I miss something?

 

As far as the new ships are concerned, they were scheduled for delivery in 2022 and 2025, so there's no need for any announcements at this time as even a 2022 delivery could be met despite construction not having been started. We'll hear something after the dust settles when and if cruising resumes. My guess would be a postponement of the 2022 ship at a minimum, if not significant delay or cancellation of one or both ship orders.

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10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Where did you get information that Insignia is for sale? Did I miss something?

 

 

If you go to azdrydock’s post above with the video of ships for sale, as he indicated Insignia is #7 on that list.

 

I will forewarn you that they start at #40 and work backwards to #1, however you can fast forward if you are so inclined.

 

The list price is $150 million. I find it interesting that they put the Insignia up for sale, which has already had the refurbishment, in lieu of the Nautica that hasn’t.

Edited by pinotlover
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Wow, wonder what will happen to the RTW cruise in 2022 if the Insignia is sold before then, shuffle the others around, not good for our plans. Unless there is a vaccine soon so we can go in May 2021.

Then there is of course the new build which should/would be delivered in 2022.

One can of course only speculate and 2022 is so far away, maybe someone on CC is more in the know than the rest of us.

Anyone??
Rosalyn

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36 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

If you go to azdrydock’s post above with the video of ships for sale, as he indicated Insignia is #7 on that list.

 

I will forewarn you that they start at #40 and work backwards to #1, however you can fast forward if you are so inclined.

 

The list price is $150 million. I find it interesting that they put the Insignia up for sale, which has already had the refurbishment, in lieu of the Nautica that hasn’t.

The video was posted April 5, 2019, almost 18 months ago so it's not current and I wouldn't rely on it as a result.

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43 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The video was posted April 5, 2019, almost 18 months ago so it's not current and I wouldn't rely on it as a result.

Phew, thanks for that, just panicking that I might have to rethink my plans, should of course have seen the date at the top.

That said I am surprised that Oceania was considering selling Insignia in 2019, way before any of us could even imagine the problems we would be facing in 2020!

Rosalyn

 

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1 hour ago, cruiseaholic78 said:

Phew, thanks for that, just panicking that I might have to rethink my plans, should of course have seen the date at the top.

That said I am surprised that Oceania was considering selling Insignia in 2019, way before any of us could even imagine the problems we would be facing in 2020!

Rosalyn

 

Oceania announced the order for two new ships in January 2019 and because Insignia, originally R One, is the oldest Oceania ship it would make sense that they would explore selling  her. I would assume it usually takes quite a bit of time to sell a $150 million dollar cruise ship so listing her for sale three years before the launch of a new build seems to make sense. 

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The public postings, similar to my previous post, are fueled by brokers not necessarily the owners. If there is interest in a ship the broker may then try to convince the owner to sell even though the owner never initiated the offer. Since selling a ship is a lengthy process, it may have been that Oceania planned on retiring the R's as the new ships were brought online. This eases the growth pains associated with increased staffing and resources. As  far as which ship to start with, why not the one most likely to sell?

 

In the past when a ship was sold it was announced several months in advance and there was plenty of time to change plans. When the HAL Prinsendam was sold to Phoenix Reisen a few years ago it was then leased back to HAL and I think only bookings close to a year from the announcement date were cancelled. We were on the Prinsendam about 6 months before the sale was announced and the crew already knew the ship was sold, I remember the Chief engineer being asked what was going to be done on the upcoming drydock and he replied they will do what is required for certification and what the new owners may want. We asked our housekeeper how long she had been working for HAL she said it was her 4th contract, all on the Prinsendam, and her next one will  be a choice between HAL and the Prinsendam.

 

 

 

 

 

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