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APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?


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1 minute ago, davekathy said:

Or post comments. You're starting to get it! 🤣

( Your emoji doesn't show on my computer )

LOL----What else can I post that hasn't been posted 100's of times by other posters on this thread ? 

I've been trying to think of another topic to start a new thread , but, I keep coming back to the same one that had about 65 pages. 

Hey, here's a couple of new ones --- Gratuities , Buffets, Chair Hogs ---- What d'ya think ????

 

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5 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

( Your emoji doesn't show on my computer )

LOL----What else can I post that hasn't been posted 100's of times by other posters on this thread ? 

I've been trying to think of another topic to start a new thread , but, I keep coming back to the same one that had about 65 pages. 

Hey, here's a couple of new ones --- Gratuities , Buffets, Chair Hogs ---- What d'ya think ????

Knock yourself out! 

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4 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

Does it mean " take a hike " ? in a negative way ?

I don't get it.

 No it doesn't!

 

25 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

( Your emoji doesn't show on my computer )

LOL----What else can I post that hasn't been posted 100's of times by other posters on this thread ? 

I've been trying to think of another topic to start a new thread , but, I keep coming back to the same one that had about 65 pages. 

Hey, here's a couple of new ones --- Gratuities , Buffets, Chair Hogs ---- What d'ya think ???

Knock yourself out. Go for it. Do what ya gotta do... 

Anyway moving along. 🙄

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Wow.  Lots of opinions.  Most about other people protecting you from them (mask wearing).  Why not look out for yourself.  Wash your hands often.  If you are touching things wash you hands immediately after.  Do not touch your face, mouth, eyes, etc. unless your hands are sanitized.

 

If we all keep our hands clean that will be a huge help in stopping the spread and will help with a number of other illness's as well.  People that don't wash their hands but wear a mask are not your allies.

 

I am not going to live in fear.  I am going to keep my hands clean and do my best at social distancing. 

 

Stay safe, go to work, go to play, enjoy your family and live your lives.  Most importantly wash your hands. 

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1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Spif,

The HS Panel Recommendations are pretty thorough but if I have to cruise this way I personally will not cruise.  I will wait for a vaccine and wait for it to take effect in a population that will develop the level of acquired (herd) immunity necessary to make me feel safe and comfortable on a cruise vacation again.  And a vacation that meets my criteria (have worry-free fun).  Cruising is a nice-to-do but a necessity in life for me.  It is not a constitutional or human right either.  Or a democracy. It is a private vacation purchase with the provider making the rules and regulations.  If they say No Masks or anything else and people are uncomfortable then they should simply choose another outlet for their vacation dollars. If a person is in a poor health category that puts them at increased risk or if they cannot wear a mask if it is required to cruise then they can just go elsewhere to spend vacation dollars.  Pretty simple to me anyway.😀

Absolutely agree. We have certainly taken our share of land vacations and continue to enjoy them. Nothing since C19 started and we still do not feel comfortable going to destinations that are open and welcoming. I don't expect to see C19 gone completely but there has got to be a drastic drop in global infections before we travel again. When that happens we will travel, land or sea, wearing masks and joining ship's excursions if the itinerary is firm and ports-of-call open. 

 

Vaccinations are a highly determining factor with many travelers as to when they will cruise again. It is my thought that even when approved vaccines are available and administered, it will not immediately mitigate the new protocols put in place for cruisers. There has to be a period of time where the benefit from the vaccine can be verified. Once effectiveness is established then rules can be lessened or totally discontinued.  

Edited by Spif Barwunkel
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17 minutes ago, Rob-Bob said:

Wow.  Lots of opinions.  Most about other people protecting you from them (mask wearing).  Why not look out for yourself.  Wash your hands often.  If you are touching things wash you hands immediately after.  Do not touch your face, mouth, eyes, etc. unless your hands are sanitized.

 

If we all keep our hands clean that will be a huge help in stopping the spread and will help with a number of other illness's as well.  People that don't wash their hands but wear a mask are not your allies.

 

I am not going to live in fear.  I am going to keep my hands clean and do my best at social distancing. 

 

Stay safe, go to work, go to play, enjoy your family and live your lives.  Most importantly wash your hands. 

Hand washing is great, but studies have shown that Sars-CoV-2 is transmitted through the air far more than through surfaces.  

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45 minutes ago, D C said:

Hand washing is great, but studies have shown that Sars-CoV-2 is transmitted through the air far more than through surfaces.  

 

Good point. The early panics about transmission from touching (that led to Clorox wipes and paper towel shortages, among other things) was due to the early reports from hospitals and nursing homes where the virus was being expelled in procedures and resulted in high concentrations on surfaces that were touched repeatedly by the same people.  

 

Few people are recommending wiping down grocery bags and food items (but it makes good sense anyway in flu season to wash hands frequently). Caution in general is a good idea!

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20 hours ago, npcl said:

one item. they mention that in case someone tests positive, they will be removed from the ship as soon as it can be done safely.  Does not mention how the person will get home, who will be responsible for their expenses, etc.

To be precise, it says the "goal" is to remove them from the ship.   That same "goal" existed in March/April when so many passengers were stranded aboard ships.  That same "goal" exists today to repatriate crewmembers - who still remain stranded aboard ships.  Goals are nice.  Detailed plans that ensure goals can be met are even better.  I hope we see these plans in the near future and I hope they answer your questions.

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5 hours ago, Ravbo said:

Sorry.

No Mask = No Cruise.

PERIOD.

 

We already have reports from people who have sailed on MSC that this is simply not true.  Many people are not wearing masks when they should, and crew often ignore the offense.  

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This is the most current info from the WHO website:

 

"To prevent infection and to slow transmission of COVID-19, do the following:

  • Wash your hands regularly with soap and water, or clean them with alcohol-based hand rub.
  • Maintain at least 1 metre distance between you and people coughing or sneezing.
  • Avoid touching your face.
  • Cover your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing.
  • Stay home if you feel unwell.
  • Refrain from smoking and other activities that weaken the lungs.
  • Practice physical distancing by avoiding unnecessary travel and staying away from large groups of people."

I do not see any reference to mask wearing at all.  I am just wondering?

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Interesting article from Travel Weekly that pertains to this rather lengthy discussion, and includes remarks by Richard Fain.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Insights/two-cruise-chiefs-on-CDC-recommendations?utm_source=eNewsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=eltrcruise&ct=cruise&oly_enc_id=1672G1114645F9V

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55 minutes ago, Rob-Bob said:

This is the most current info from the WHO website:

 

"To prevent infection and to slow transmission of COVID-19, do the following:

  • Wash your hands regularly with soap and water, or clean them with alcohol-based hand rub.
  • Maintain at least 1 metre distance between you and people coughing or sneezing.
  • Avoid touching your face.
  • Cover your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing.
  • Stay home if you feel unwell.
  • Refrain from smoking and other activities that weaken the lungs.
  • Practice physical distancing by avoiding unnecessary travel and staying away from large groups of people."

I do not see any reference to mask wearing at all.  I am just wondering?

 

I'm not sure where you are looking.  Here's what I find on the WHO website....

 

Governments should encourage the general public to wear a fabric mask if there is widespread community transmission, and especially where physical distancing cannot be maintained.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

 

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1 hour ago, Rob-Bob said:

This is the most current info from the WHO website:

 

"To prevent infection and to slow transmission of COVID-19, do the following:

  • Wash your hands regularly with soap and water, or clean them with alcohol-based hand rub.
  • Maintain at least 1 metre distance between you and people coughing or sneezing.
  • Avoid touching your face.
  • Cover your mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing.
  • Stay home if you feel unwell.
  • Refrain from smoking and other activities that weaken the lungs.
  • Practice physical distancing by avoiding unnecessary travel and staying away from large groups of people."

I do not see any reference to mask wearing at all.  I am just wondering?

There are numerous references and an entire section dealing with masks, easily found with a quick Google search. A small selection:

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

Masks are a key tool in a comprehensive approach to the fight against COVID-19. For more public advice on masks, read our Q&A and watch our videos."

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

Extensive Q&A on use of masks

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

Videos and technical guidance on the use of masks.

 

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Just thinking in terms of the business viability of cruise lines, I believe "masks supposedly required/but no enforcement" may be the worst scenario.  Consider three situations: 

1. "Masks required/fully enforced."   Some won't like this, and may choose not to cruise.  But the actual cruise experience would correspond to stated policy, plus this scenario should minimize disease.  

2. "Masks entirely optional."  Some seem to want this scenario.  Many others would choose not to cruise for now.  This scenario would provide less protection against disease (and the CDC may not allow this for now, but that's a separate topic.)   But again, a "masks optional" policy would at least allow the experience to match the expectations. 

3.  "Masks supposedly required/but no enforcement."   Some people seem to advocate this situation, apparently as a way to move from scenario 1 to scenario 2--from "masks required" to  "masks optional."  But I think this scenario would make for an unpleasant cruise experience, aside from health issues.  The anti-maskers would feel singled out by any attempt at enforcement--"you didn't say anything to that guy!!"  The pro-maskers would resent scofflaws and urge the crew to enforce the rules.   There would be confrontations.  The crew would be trapped between factions of unhappy passengers.  

 

Perhaps scenario #3 is inevitable.  I hope it is not.  I think COVID is more serious than dress code or chair hog violations, so I'd expect to see more vigorous enforcement.  But my present point is that cruise lines might jeopardize their own existence if their passengers find that the cruise experience, contrary to policy and expectations, actually feels like scenario #3.   

Edited by junglejane
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There is no doubt that masks will be required on future cruises for awhile. Whether it'll be enforced to alevel that some are satisfied is another issue. So to those that continue to project the mantra No Mask = No Cruise you'll get your wish. The question is will you actually go knowing the struggle of enforcement. But there are more issues than just masks....

 

1. Contact tracing -  Are you prepared to have your cruise canceled due to contact tracing after arriving to the port? Once on the ship, are you prepared to be quarantined because of contact tracing? 

 

2. Quarantine cabins - Are you prepared to be moved out of your balcony or suite and be held in another cabin w/ bunk beds and no space due to contact tracing? 

 

3. Ship's Excursions - are you prepared to pay double the price non-ship excursion costs?

 

4. Social Distancing - due to space needed, the number of cabins occupied will be reduced and as a result the cost of the cabins to be occupied will increase dramatically. Are you prepared to pay an increased price?

 

No Mask = No Cruise. OK...then what?  

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

No Mask = No Cruise. OK...then what?  

 

Then those of us who like safer travel, and who do not trust travel companies who break their promises to provide safety measures, will do other things.

 

I am not saying they have to please me above all others. If other cruisers go and enjoy the experience despite what I see as an untenably dangerous environment, so be it. I just won't spend my money there. My car is wonderful, and it is time to visit the Snake River among hundreds of other (inland) destinations.

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1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

 

Then those of us who like safer travel, and who do not trust travel companies who break their promises to provide safety measures, will do other things.

 

I am not saying they have to please me above all others. If other cruisers go and enjoy the experience despite what I see as an untenably dangerous environment, so be it. I just won't spend my money there. My car is wonderful, and it is time to visit the Snake River among hundreds of other (inland) destinations.

Great response. There is a life besides on a cruise ship.

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