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APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?


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8 hours ago, Pinboy said:

This whole idea is excellent , however, there is one " obstacle " ----- PEOPLE's behavior .

 

 

In the UK they have brought in a 6 person rule due to a slight increase in our Covid infection rate, 6 people includes children. So we have folks already saying they are going to break the rule for Christmas holidays as why shouldn't all the family be together!!  It is behaviour and some just don't know what the word means.

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8 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

 I am skeptical that X will pull the 30% non compliers off of the ship.  

 

I don't believe it will be even close to 30%.  The cruise lines want/need to start putting money in their bank accounts as soon as possible. I suspect they will be very serious about compliance especially in the short term.  A few "examples" of that will go a long way.   MSC made an example of the family that broke ranks and left a ship sponsored excursion and were greeted with their luggage on return to the port where they were on their own to find a way home.    Haven't heard about another issue with MSC passengers since.

 

There will be a few who push the limits, of course, there's always "someone" who believes the rules don't apply to them but it won't be anywhere near 30% in my opinion.

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13 hours ago, Ravbo said:

Easy answer.

Mask can only be removed for eating/drinking when you are sitting down.

Walking around drinking without mask not allowed.

Walking around eating without mask not allowed.

The cruise lines have to get this right if they are going to survive.

They have no choice.  If they screw this up and get shut down again after being allowed to restart, they are out of business.

 

This is essentially what Disney World is doing.  No walking and eating/drinking.

 

It's a fair bit extreme when you take such measures outside as the risk of exposure to an inoculating dose of the virus is minimised, especially on a moving ship where it's essentially windy all of the time.   

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6 hours ago, jelayne said:


If the seating in the show is spaced so that social distancing is  accomplished,  which I think will happen, then not wearing a mask while seated in the theater would be no different than not wearing a mask while seated at your table in the MDR.

Unmasked in the theatre is way better than being unmasked while dining.   In the theatre, save for laughing, people are generally quiet.  It's the talking in restaurants, and especially loud talking in loud restaurants that is among the high-risk activities of daily life as it produces more aerosolized particles. 

 

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9 hours ago, jelayne said:

I think if, from embarkation, those that refuse to follow the rules are disembarked after a warning ( really how many times have you gotten out of your car and headed to a store or restaurant and realized you didn’t have your mask, for me about once a week)  then very quickly people will comply.  
I have sailed on some cruise lines where flaunting the rules , being drunk and obnoxious is not uncommon but IME that’s not what what we have encountered on X.  
I believe if you communicate what is required, treat passengers as adults who want to cruise, and enforce the rules for those who believe they don’t apply to them the word will spread quickly and The jerks will quickly be gone.  

 

I usually forget when I leave the house, which is why I now have a box of masks in my car.  It DOES happen, but it's easily resolved by having a sign on the inside of your door in your cabin reminding you the measures.

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I agree that actions outlined are appropriate, and believe that proof of having had the vaccine must be mandatory and submitted ahead of time (just as a passport must be) before sailing.
 

Many Cruise Critic folks like me are old enough to recall when people had to travel with a yellow multi-page vaccination record (format created by the World Health Organization), with information entered & signed by a doctor. You could not enter most countries, including the US, without proof of your Smallpox vaccination. Airlines checked it before boarding, and you handed it over at passport control. And that’s how the disease was eradicated 40 years ago.
 

35% of Americans have said they won’t get the a Covid-19 vaccine, according to a recent poll. Not hard to believe when only half of us get the flu shot each year. And there has not been enough time to know if/when a herd immunity may develop.

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12 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Once everything is properly in place and enforced, perhaps that particular behavior will quickly disappear

That is the theme of your thread and the intention is excellent.

IMO--- I doubt " everything will be in place " , loopholes will be challenged, and " enforced " will not happen from Staff who don't want to get involved for fear of their job being affected.  

What will happen is uncomfortable " situations " everyday, all day, everywhere on the ship, which is the reason we will not cruise until " fun " is brought back to the Industry. 

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12 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

However, I can see the final night of cruises being a "free for all" and obstinate people giving the middle finger to the rules. 

Forget the " final night "--- realistically " every day, all day, everywhere on board " .

 

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17 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

Forget the " final night "--- realistically " every day, all day, everywhere on board " .

 

The cruise lines will cease to exist if they fail to gain the confidence of the public that they are safe. Part of the formula for success is strict rules with absolute enforcement. If there is a "free for all" on the last night cruise lines should place a ban on future cruises for those who refuse to follow the rules. The bottom line is that those who willingly violate health and safety regulations are placing the passengers and crew at risk and might be contributing to the demise of the cruise line. Once people know that there will be strict enforcement they will modify their behavior or stop cruising. Word of strict enforcement will quickly pass around the ship and there will be many threads on Cruise Critic and other social media. 

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What I learned from this thread...The Rona cannot infect you if you are seated...it is deadly if you are walking around, ie ambulatory...

 

Mask not needed when seated, is needed if walking around....you can’t walk and drink, but you can sit and drink. Are people even listening to what they are saying here?  LMAO...

 

 

Edited by PTC DAWG
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1 hour ago, Pinboy said:

 " enforced " will not happen from Staff who don't want to get involved for fear of their job being affected.  

Crew members have been reluctant to enforce rules such as dress code, chair hogging and the like in the past, because there were no consequences for them personally for non-enforcement. On the other hand, by the time that North American cruising restarts, the majority of crew members will have been out of work for almost a year and they fully understand the consequences of a potential outbreak of COVID-19 aboard. I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols. 

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8 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

What I learned from this thread...The Rona cannot infect you if you are seated...it is deadly if you are walking around, ie ambulatory...

 

Mask not needed when seated, is needed if walking around....you can’t walk and drink, but you can sit and drink. Are people even listening to what they are saying here?  LMAO...

 

 

Or... 

"wear a mask unless you're doing something that can't be done while wearing a mask" with caveats to counter those people who would always be doing something that can't be done with a mask, simply in order to avoid wearing one. 

 

The unintended consequence is requiring mask wearing during times that are inherently low risk.  Sustained proximity to others where there is a lot of talking and thus aerosolized particles is the worst case. Unfortunately, this describes the dining rooms.  Anywhere outdoors, masks really shouldn't be necessary.  

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3 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Crew members have been reluctant to enforce rules such as dress code, chair hogging and the like in the past, because there were no consequences for them personally for non-enforcement. On the other hand, by the time that North American cruising restarts, the majority of crew members will have been out of work for almost a year and they fully understand the consequences of a potential outbreak of COVID-19 aboard. I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols. 

Agree with your comment. Cruise lines can always hire more security persons. "Where there is a will, there is a way" of getting control of any situation.

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1 hour ago, D C said:

Or... 

"wear a mask unless you're doing something that can't be done while wearing a mask" with caveats to counter those people who would always be doing something that can't be done with a mask, simply in order to avoid wearing one. 

 

 

 

We just took a short trip on a plane.  The number of people that bought a drink and were not actively drinking it while in the airport and onboard while they had no mask on, was pretty astounding.  The other group of non-maskers were those that were texting, which included a great number of them.  I wasn't aware that you needed to take your mask off to play on your phone....but, I guess it's a real thing!  There were constant reminders on the PA that stated you had to be 'actively' eating or drinking to remove your mask.  Some didn't even bother to try to fake it ... just no mask.  There will always be those that will try to skirt the rules no matter what they are told to do or how many times they are reminded to do so.  

A friend of ours that is a flight attendant says that people get on the plane with a small snack bag or a drink and just eat or drink ever so slowly just so they don't have to wear a mask.  Another friend that works in a casino mentioned that people that don't even smoke light up a cigarette just so they have an excuse to not wear their mask.  Just think about all the 'how to sneak alcohol onboard' threads there used to be ... and they expect people to actually follow the rules as far as wearing a mask ... one that covers their nose and mouth?  haha!!  Me of little faith!  

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57 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

We just took a short trip on a plane.  The number of people that bought a drink and were not actively drinking it while in the airport and onboard while they had no mask on, was pretty astounding.  The other group of non-maskers were those that were texting, which included a great number of them.  I wasn't aware that you needed to take your mask off to play on your phone....but, I guess it's a real thing!  There were constant reminders on the PA that stated you had to be 'actively' eating or drinking to remove your mask.  Some didn't even bother to try to fake it ... just no mask.  There will always be those that will try to skirt the rules no matter what they are told to do or how many times they are reminded to do so.  

A friend of ours that is a flight attendant says that people get on the plane with a small snack bag or a drink and just eat or drink ever so slowly just so they don't have to wear a mask.  Another friend that works in a casino mentioned that people that don't even smoke light up a cigarette just so they have an excuse to not wear their mask.  Just think about all the 'how to sneak alcohol onboard' threads there used to be ... and they expect people to actually follow the rules as far as wearing a mask ... one that covers their nose and mouth?  haha!!  Me of little faith!  

Agree with the posters who want strict rules and enforcement. Perhaps the health and life of your flight attendant friend could be saved if airlines really enforced face mask regulations. I wonder if contact tracing would indicate who passed the virus on to you and if they failed to do as required could be successfully sued for damages? 

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8 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 MSC made an example of the family that broke ranks and left a ship sponsored excursion and were greeted with their luggage on return to the port where they were on their own to find a way home.    Haven't heard about another issue with MSC passengers since.

 

You will probably be interested in this post from @petra75 who just completed a cruise on MSC.

 

Sounds like mask compliance may not be a good as you imagine.

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2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols.

See my link to @petra75 trip report above.  It seems crew members looking the other way was an issue on this MSC voyage.

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13 minutes ago, Orator said:

Agree with the posters who want strict rules and enforcement. Perhaps the health and life of your flight attendant friend could be saved if airlines really enforced face mask regulations. I wonder if contact tracing would indicate who passed the virus on to you and if they failed to do as required could be successfully sued for damages? 

 

 

 

 

As for my flight attendant friend, she instructed the man repeatedly to pull his mask up when not actively eating or drinking ... then, he would grab a piece of his snack mix and put it in his mouth, clearly skirting the intent of the rule in the first place!  And they are the first ones to throw a fit when confronted.  So indignant!  

I'm sure every flight attendant has been in this position and are trained to assess the situation and only report the severe abuse of the rules.  

 

As far as legal action against those that are too good to follow the rules, I don't think anything will happen to those that don't comply.  When I saw that woman that was interviewed on National TV after leaving the Diamond Princess under false pretenses, 'oh yes, our tests came back and they were negative', knowing full well that her husband was sick, I was appalled .. still, she didn't suffer any consequences.  And, not trying to make this political, but, what even happened to the speaker of the house when she defied the rules in her own district?  Nothing!  

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On 9/15/2020 at 1:43 PM, Spif Barwunkel said:

                                  

I’ll use Celebrity as the example here since X is the cruise line of choice for my three currently booked cruises. This is what I want to see when next I attempt to acquire my sea legs onboard Silhouette in April 2021, if indeed worldwide cruising has started again.

 

Prior to the resumption of global cruising whatever the protocols and guidelines are, as established by the CDC, the CLIA and each individual cruise line, there should be total commitment by all to ensure that those directions are adhered to and enforced. Information regarding the new criteria and the consequences for non-compliance should be copiously disseminated through various media outlets. In addition, each cruise line should have the same information at the forefront of their website, in plain view for all to see. There should be no doubt, no confusion and no obfuscation as to what is expected of us, whether a passenger or a crew member.

 

Once final payment is made, the cruise documents one receives should overtly include those same guidelines, expectations and consequences along with a form requiring the signature of each passenger, acknowledging receipt, understanding and compliance. That form will be surrendered during check-in at the terminal.

 

Folks, from the time we set foot in to the cruise terminal until the day we disembark, there should be complete understanding of how things are going to be. If one’s intent is to fake it and once onboard try to circumvent the rules, he/she may be unpleasantly surprised. I am not averse to confinement, fines, being escorted off the ship or even the creation of a no-sail list, on which one will be placed for a minimum of two years. After all, it’s not just about you and me and a few days at sea. The negative effects of stubbornness, ignorance and selfishness extend far beyond my enjoyment and someone else’s pious self-indulgence.

 

If standards are set and expectations are met, we cruisers can help the industry recover. Those who shun the idea of additional rules and regulations, and compliance with same, have no place on a ship and deserve what befalls them.

     

   

 

People walking around smoking cigarettes and holding their McDonalds bag yelling at me saying I’m putting their life at risk because I’m not wearing a mask for a disease that has .03% death rate.... yeah okay dude. Pretty sure X will take our money with or without your criteria.

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3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

What I learned from this thread...The Rona cannot infect you if you are seated...it is deadly if you are walking around, ie ambulatory...

 

Mask not needed when seated, is needed if walking around....you can’t walk and drink, but you can sit and drink. Are people even listening to what they are saying here?  LMAO...

 

 

"The Rona"  can infect you if you are seated but not socially distanced which is why restaurants, meeting rooms casinos are placing tables farther apart, making some seats unavailable.  But surely you, as a intelligent person, knew that.

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13 minutes ago, pumpkin 11 said:

People walking around smoking cigarettes and holding their McDonalds bag yelling at me saying I’m putting their life at risk because I’m not wearing a mask for a disease that has .03% death rate.... yeah okay dude. Pretty sure X will take our money with or without your criteria.

Maybe you'll change your tune if a loved one is part of your .03% death rate? We just buried a family member last Sunday! Two friends, who thought that Covid 19 was a hoax now have it and they have changed their attitude.

If this thread seems personal to me, it is. You never know when you might need someone to care about your health or safety.

 

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50 minutes ago, mnocket said:

See my link to @petra75 trip report above.  It seems crew members looking the other way was an issue on this MSC voyage.

Thanks for the link, as that was an interesting first-hand review of the implementation of the MSC protocols. While she did mention this in one post as an occasional problem, there were other posts where she commented favourably about crew members asking passengers to wear their masks properly. To be fair, though, the single post where she commented on crew members at times not correcting passengers was a summary of the cruise and starts:

 

So, to summarise our first experience of a cruise during Covid19 pandemic: 

did we liked it? Yes

Will we do it again? Definitely!

 

In the meantime let's complain, just a little though...

 

So while she noted the occasional looking the other way, she didn't make a big issue of it and it certainly wasn't enough for her to not want to cruise with MSC again.

 

That said, the wording in my earlier post could have been better had I added something like "In the majority of cases,  I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols."

 

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46 minutes ago, pumpkin 11 said:

People walking around smoking cigarettes and holding their McDonalds bag yelling at me saying I’m putting their life at risk because I’m not wearing a mask for a disease that has .03% death rate.... yeah okay dude. Pretty sure X will take our money with or without your criteria.

Spoken like a true devotee of enmity. And you are right, how dare those smokers and hamburger eaters. They and you are certainly of the same ilk. Why can't they just realize that? You've certainly garnered my commiseration.

 

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Fed Chairman Powell just said that ; "Social Distancing and wearing of face masks will help the recovery of the economy". Why would anyone not want to do their part in the recovery?  CDC Head Dr. Redfield, who advised Trump said in testimony to Congress that "Masks work". I can go on and on with the testimony of experts. 

Edited by Life Buoy
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1 minute ago, Life Buoy said:

Fed Chairman Powell just said that ; "Social Distancing and wearing of face masks will help the recovery of the economy". Wh would anyone not want to do their part in the recovery?  CDC Head Dr. Redfield, who advised Trump said in testimony to Congress that "Masks work". I can go on and on with the testimony of experts. 

Unfortunately, it would have little impact on those who won't or can't understand. There was a great editorial cartoon in today's Globe & Mail, but in compliance with the board's rules, I'll not post it here.

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